I don.t get it, and they certainly don't

I started this response a couple of hours ago when there were 14 postings only and ran into computer problemss so I saved and now pasted it....

*HUGS* Pen, Ashlynne, Rose & Vestalia. Thank you for your kind words and confidence in what the outcome of our build will be. ( You Get it! )

The purpose of my posting was not to flame. if it had been then I would have used names but I purposfully left them out.

Prokofy, If you read my original posting again, you will see as I told you the day we talked that we are not finished with our plans for building and as I told you, yes, that area would be used to build a display for our Sculptures. Obviously as we start to build we will not be able to afford the prims we allow for so many to be out in the future. We plan to build some kind of displaystand/platform rising to the water surface (sorry no design drawings yet) and rotate our display.

Please note that of the pictures posted, the island you see is only partially ours. We have an L shaped peice of land that has no buildings on it other than the reflection places at the shore line and a gazebo on the hill. Pretty much the wooded area is all ours and wraps partially around the other side.

The compliments on Eagan mean a lot. When we began building there we took into consideration Rose and Vestalia's beautiful builds. I'm glad we accomplished one of our main goals. Which, as I told Vestalia when she visited near the end of our building, "We wanted to create something that our neighbors would not look over at and say "OMG look what they plopped down next door! " But rather wow what a nice build"
I'd like to note that tho we've talked to Rose and Vestalia a few times we are not "connected" to them. We met when we moved in.

We did the same in Eagan before we built, displayed sculptures in the interim. It looks like it all turned out ok there.

I logged into SL before I came here to read the forums and was greeted by IM's regarding this post. Kind words from people I havn't met or know in passing.
One really sums it up and tells me they can feel what we want to accomplish in Carlisle.
This is from someone who I read often in the forums and is familiar to a great many of others I'm sure. We have never met in world. The visit was prompted by this thread.
"I came to visit your place in Carisle *sigh* it looks so tranquil and pretty here. I'm sitting by the campfire right now as I type this to you."
Thank you for taking the time to visit and get a first person view *HUGS*

To sum it up we are not connected to anyone. Yes, we are old players, we do have many friends (kinda comes with being old players) BUT, we have earned every friendship we have here by being honest, hardworking, concerned people. We have helped many others along the way, not for the fame (we dont have any fame that I know of) but because when we started we had the help of many others. This may be part of the reason we are not rich either. That and the fact we do love toys LOL
Which brings me to the "cars" we placed on our land yesterday. The Hammerheads were my X-Mas gift to the group. Yesterday was Shads first day back from vacation and we wanted to play. Well we put down our pads and parked the vehicles there so we could play with our toys. Dont worry we will clean up after ourselves when we get done. Much like X-Mas morning.

If we consolidated our group land, maybe we could buy a sim. Does that make us land barons? rich?, or a group of 5 long time friends that pooled our resources so we have more options?

This has turned into a he said she said posting. Like the fact you stated to me that your "customer was complaining and wanted her money back. While she states YOU asked her what she thought of the art over the water.

I wont get into a silly debate like that here. The point of this post is...
1) A landowner has a right to build as they see fit on their land.
2) Dont presume to know what the outcome will be and judge by your nearsightedness when they have told you they are undecided. Wait and see what they create you may be pleasantly surprised or even thrilled with the outcome.
3) As in this case if you want to speculate on what they may build, take the time to visit other builds they have done. Eagan is a good place to start.
4) The most important, Never assume you have a vision that must be shared by everyone. Do as so many others have done and create your paradise within your property.
5) Get out and see how others have adapted and respected others freedoms. These type of builds are the most beautiful and refresshing finds in SL.

If SL was made up of people with all the same visions we wouldnt be a world we would be a comune. The very fact that we are all so different and all have such diverse talents and visions is what makes SL such a wonderful place to be.

To address later postings...
-I would think that making a "polite inquiry" over and over after it was answered borders on harassment.
-Creating a community and a vision of what it will be is a wonderful idea. But do you really think that just because someone has assured you that they will keep to your vision when they buy (not rent) a plot of land there means it will remain so? What happens when they decide to sell? What if they decide they want a store there instead? I admire the task you have taken on of policing your former properties. It will be a big task and no doubt you will face some battles in the future. I wish you luck.

-I didnt know you knew so many of us so well to make the kind of assumtions you do. I think we all can see who the "me-generation, spoiled sandbox set in SL." is.

I did not slam your build or homes just pointed out I may not agree with the layout and you accused me of trashing your project.

You put a very interesting spin on what you hear from others and this is just the kind of he said she said debate I'm talking about. I have better things to do than to address your misquotes and distortions.

The question here is a question shared by many. Our situation is only an example.

Does a landowner have the right to feel others around him should conform to what he feels his vision is?

Oh dear. Well, despite the fact that I believe you have an alternate agenda against a few people in SL. And that you will say anything to build your project up while tearing others down, I will actually do the right thing here and respond to your post Prokofy.



One very important thing you have to still learn about SL is that we are a tight knit community. There are some that are *very* highly respected in this community. To begin an argument against them accusing them of exaggerations and fabrications is a sure fire way to keep your argument from being read. Right or wrong, that simply *is* a fact. So in your first paragraph you just turned off a lot of people from even trying to see your point of view. Just a note of advice.




You also stood very harshly against Ulrika on this very matter in another thread. I refer you to: /120/43/29427/1.html

Perhaps you have changed your mind?



Yes. You are new and learning and nothing in this statement is wrong nor can it be condemed.



In this your statment and Pahoa's is the same.



Here I choose to believe Pahoa's statement of what happened over yours. That is my opinion only.




In all honesty, that is your problem, not hers or ours.



Yes. You continue to point out your "wonderful" plan for a community area in many of your threads. What your are attempting is no different than *MANY* others in SL are doing. You are not special, though I do personally wish you luck in your project.



You just put words into Pahoa's mouth that she did not state. Bad form on your part. This whole paragraph of yours should be ignored.



That is a "perception" of yours. I see people moving all the time, old and new. Of course older players do have a knowledge of the world and how things can work in a sim or hurt it. That does not make them special, it only makes them knowledgable. Which is understandable.



And if someone honestly is not certain yet what they want to do with their land, they should not be hounded to answer anyone with a specific goal.



If you want a sim to look exactly the way you want it to, then either buy your own, and/or work to get some Zoned Sims in place, and/or work to create a community within an exisiting sim. Otherwise, love it or hate it, you have no right to tell someone else what they can and cannot build on their own land. Of course, I offer one exception to this. And that is I firmly believe if one person's build in a sim is dragging the sim down to performance levels that keep other land owners in that sim from functioning, then that is something that should NOT be allowed. If it is about looks only, oh well, too bad.



Yes. Your project. Well, your statements seem to fall under wanting zoned types of Sims. There are threads about this in the Land and Economy forum as well as the Feature Suggestions Forum. It is an issue that has been being discussed since before even you came to SL. A valid discussion in my book.



You certainly have a distaste for players that have been around longer than you have. I've been around a year longer than you, and I bet that you have more Lindens than I do. Your bias to older players is really something that I can't understand or tolerate. Wisdom in the ways of the world *does* come with age. The SL world is really no different. But even I will admit that wisdom isn't everything. However, prejudice against a poplulation in the world will definitely keep some from *ever* paying attention to you.



Not all players that have been around for months, years, etc. Agree with each other on what this world is, was, or should be. Nor do all of them have money, or a "love em or leave em" attitude about the Lindens. You assume too much.



See my response to your last quote.



Again, the issue of zoning is one that has been around long before you came to SL. It is a topic with much debate and discussion. It is also a topic that many of these "older players" agree with.

That said, it is not the topic of this discussion. This thread was started because a member of the community felt they needed to vent because they felt they were being asked to conform to what another land owner around them wanted, and did not feel this was right but wanted feedback from the community.

On that topic I say again, NO one has a right to tell another person what they can or cannot build in my opinion. My *only* acception is if the build puts a strain on the sim to the point that it is unsable (unable to move, walk, build, fly, etc) by others in the Sim. When it gets to that point, the Lindens usually step in though, so I feel confident in this exception.

Pahoa, I'm glad you have a notion to build in conformity with land and to build things that are pleasing to others

In your last two posts you never talked about the elephant in the living room: King Kong. He's big, he's kitsch, and well....he's BIG. Could we hear some comments from others in the area about their feelings about King Kong?

My customer approached me first about concerns about builds in the water adjacent to hers. As I have already repeated, she raised it first -- I didn't complain about art work that wasn't to my taste or the taste of architects in SL because I, too, would fall down on the side of creativity and freedom over restrictions. I pointed out to this customer that it was just artwork -- just dolphins and not a big building -- and she said she realized that but still had concerns about a potential big build. I didn't somehow incite this person to say what she thought of artwork, I just pointed out it WAS artwork, not some big build (although King Kong is lurking around the bend).

No one can read your mind and know what you intend to do -- nor do they really need to know. But you can't back down and say these are temporary displays as a justification -- no one can possibly know that unless they ask, and yet you took offense at the mere asking.



All landowners have that right, and a landowner who is commissioning buildings or selling land has the right to ask on behalf of his customers what to expect nearby -- merely what to expect! -- so that buyers can plan accordingly. It shouldn't have to cramp your style to answer "yes, there's a big building planned" or "we don't know but it's likely just these animals."



If I were nearsighted, I wouldn't be seeing the hulk of King Kong in the distance, hmmm? Let me send this boomerang right back to you. You made a judgement about me being a rapacious land-baron type merely bent on marking up land, selling it, and bailing out. There was absolutely no basis for that rash judgement, it was based on a long-standing prejudice against "land barons" in SL. Take a closer look and you see a planned development with a commons and care and concern about customers' views. Why don't you wait until it is all finished before pronouncing YOUR judgement?



I'm not going to belabor the excellent, superior builds I have sponsored in this game since September. If any of these architects are not too intimidated by the mob justice on the forums, they may step up to the plate and mention that they were supported with land, tier and events for dwell while they built, or supported by promotional contests with prizes, or supported by purchase of their pre-fabs or commissioned buildings.



Your constant harping on my supposed "assumptions" or my supposed "vision" are out of place. I'm raising the question of whether everyone in SL is as thrilled with King Kong as you are -- or not. I am not imposing my vision. I didn't put King Kong in the water. You did. I didn't take this discussion to the forums -- you did. I didn't do anything but ask about your plans. And while you may believe you have absolute freedom in this game when you buy land, the person next to you who bought land thinks they have freedom, too, and their freedom is encroached by your unbelievable resistance to merely talking over your plans so that others may adjust accordingly. Let me point out again -- that was ALL that was asked of you! No one asked you to remove anything -- they merely asked to be INFORMED so they could MOVE.



I've flown all over and studied all kinds of situations. And I see what you are discussing as precious little. You might want to cite some sim names and specific plots. What I see is generally just the opposite -- people not feeling empowered to speak up and ask questions or even to protest because of a culture of fuck-you hedonism that often most cleverly disguises itself as "concern for the community."

I'll remind you once again that I didn't have some grand vision or grand plans, just a request on behalf of a customer.



Actually, SL's old player base reminds me quite a bit of a commune -- subsidized, self-referential and hostile to newcomers.



Of course not. You have to start somewhere. I view myself as a pioneer trying to push against the tide of helplessness and anger I see in this game over the utter inability to do anything about the ugly build next door. The Lindens aren't going to zone. And players can't really enforce zoning without constant disputes and Linden intervention. So I think there have to be ways of developing alternatives. One of them is to buy a sim -- and even the views on to the next sims -- and ask people to respect the idea of "residential".

You can take your opinion and apply some of the language you used to it.

All this "consideration of neighbors" usually boils down to somebody that moved in and wants somebody else to do something, and when they say "no", they complain like this. You're just one in a very long history of the people who lose these battles, such as they are.

The Lindens may choose to mediate, but even they realize, the bottom line is, doing what you want on your land is the nature of the game that they are still trying to get to work. And if you wish to succeed in SL, when you're done complaining, you'll realize it and understand that if it's not your land, whining is pointless.

You know, not everybody plays this game to be part of some arbitrary community.

Have a nice day and thank you for playing Second Life!

Oh and btw...enjoy the view.

Ok I'm going to put in my L$0.02.

Ok everyone, in vision with me for a few moments here....

Lets say I am looking for land, I find a nice spot in a upscale woodsy area. This plot is one of about 30 in the area, all surrounded by woods and zoned residential. I buy the plot in the middle for say $250,000. Now, 2 months later the surrounding plots of land are sold, A developer has bought them all. A short time after that, as common practice with developers, all the land he has purchased is 100% clear cut, to make way for large multi million dollar homes. I now own land with a few trees, and a home, in the middle of a field, the builder builds large homes no more then 30ft from my lot line.

Here's where the story takes a turn....


Do I....

A) Go back to my realtor, and demand my $250,000 back because the land around me has changed?

B) Stay put, love what I have, and make the best of it?

C) Consider selling my land, and buying a larger plot somewhere else?

D) Stay where I am, sulk and boil about it, and naturally hate the people who buy those homes from the developer?


Think about those options, and lets go over the results together...

A) Considering that realtors make a percentage from any property they sell (was 3%) I would be demanding that they take money from the original seller, and their share out of their pockets. What do you think the response to your demands would be?

B) This would be the cheapest option of them all, as you bought knowing that the other land was available around you, you took a CHANCE that it would not be clear cut, your bet was wrong. This would generally be the best option all the way around.

C) If you have the money to purchase other land in a planned community already, or are able to buy enough land of your own, this may be the best option for you.

D) This would be the worst option, the purchasers of said properties bought the land for the same general reasons you did, they liked it.


Now... Realized that you had the option to ask questions about the other available land, you could have gotten zoning information (moused over it in game) or inquired what it's uses may become BEFORE YOU BOUGHT.

The story above applies for both RL and SL, and many of the same principals apply also, please consider your battles and use your brain before you purchase any land in a "main grid" gated community property.

- Sam
Dominion Custom Homes

Edit: There are already planned communities regulated BY THE LINDENS with zoning rules. This area is the sim of "Boardman". No buildings over X meters, they must be private single family residences, and they can not be obstructive in any way.

Well, I don't think an appeal to public reason is whining, or pointless, but I'm sure six months from now I'll realize how idealistic that was.

I personally took Pahoa Jade's caustic commentary about our development to heart. She said the houses were too crowded together. Well, I was trying to balance the desire of people to stay within tier range and only spend extra $5 or $8 on 512, 1024, or 2048. That gives you the crowded look, especially on valuable waterfront land. What can you do? Well, not an awful lot. I spoke to one architect about maybe moving a house back, but houses are built to site specifics by good architects, and I wouldn't want to undo that care in someone's work -- it's annoying to try to build a site-specific house on to another property with different terrain -- especially if you are committed to not terraforming everything into a pancake and bulldozing it.

So I went around and doubled some other lots and tried to make them less crowded -- but who knows if they will sell? It's always a crap shoot in this game because you can appeal to what looks good, but people don't always care.

And I imagine that despite all her indignation, Pahoa will think a little bit twice before she fills up the sea with more King-Kong like creatures. And all her neighbours now know that the cat has been belled -- they can now raise this issue knowing that the way has been paved out of their timidity and sense of powerlessness. They can say -- you know, we enjoyed King Kong for awhile, but could you maybe put him away now except on Sundays?

Looking a few sims away, I see a gigantic house, scrips up the wazoo, objects, prims, scripts, particles galore, the thing lit up like Yankee Stadium -- and the owners never online -- never. For weeks. It was fun to build, fun to live in for a day and then...of to World of Warcraft or whatever....meanwhile, they've left a sim at 1000 FPS, despite being brand new.

I am for steadily making inroads against this condition. I think it is possible to appeal to some kind of common sense in the public domain. We can ask people to use 256 or 512 textures instead of 1024. We can ask them not to leave their particles/lights/animated scripts running day and night but just have them when they are actually online living in their house. A waterfall that you enjoyed for the day lags the whole sim. It would be nice if there was a way to turn off all this stuff EXCEPT when the owner was actually on the property.

Oh that reminds me of another thing...

While I was reading through this thread I noticed one major key word "sold".

If someone decides to develop an area into a community area, and keep it that way, lease/rent out the parcels to customers. This insures that none of the land ever makes it into the wrong hands. Persons that SELL said land in hopes of keeping it a secure clean neighborhood are very misguided, as anyone can sell said land off or build big and ugly without any repercussions. Tenants on most rental property have the same rights that land owners do except usually for an extra club in the profile. Advantages of renting include keeping the ugly and flashing out. Again, consumers think before you buy.

-Sam

Yes I did address this:


We did not "build" Kong, he is one of the sculptures I am talking about. It's very easy to check the creator by clicking the item in question and looking at the edit tab for creator.

Hmm, you havn't mentioned the number of other sculptures we have on display on the island like Shads Dragon, Starax's Gladiator defending his women from a panther, Cthulhu, or our Jade and Crimson Wolves. is it because they are on our "land" and not the water you were unable to get control of?

Well our actions and build in the end will speak for themselves.

Pahoa didnt put anything in the water I did. Read the owner before you run your mouth.
(that covers the 1st ,2ed quotes)
If you are not trying to change anything by pointing out Kong( How many times?) , the shut up about it.
("This is LAUGHABLE. There isn't a shred of evidence that I've done anything of the kind. Pointing out that King Kong is a big ugly gorilla to be finding in sea water isn't exactly asking anybody to change anything -- "
Be glad that your doing this with Pahoa. If it was me with the way you act I'd pave it and have Monster fights every Friday night.

Now that we have that bullshit out of the way.. We plan to work with the area/land/water like we did in Eagan. Between now and then it will be the same as it is now.

Crimson Sunchaser

That is your opinion though. Personaly I think you are someone who only wants to *make* people see your point no matter what the consequences, but that does not mean that others do not feel differently.

Ok. First I should clarify what I was refering to in the thread that I linked. I apologize for being vague in that aspect. Here was what you stated and my response:



Found on this page of the thread I referenced: /120/43/29427/4.html



That is considered "hounding" by a great deal of people.



This was your response when I stated: "You certainly have a distaste for players that have been around longer than you have."

You may have only "singled out 3-4 Older players", but in your FIRST post in this thread you state both of the following:





No matter how you cut it, those are your slams on older players. You have obvious contempt.

Again I state, As someone who has been here a year longer than you have, I can almost bet you that you have more Linden money than I and many others that even came from beta or just thereafter. I certainly could never afford a whole sims worth of land. But do I begrudge you that? no. Because unlike you, I judge individuals. On their own, and for much different reasons than you seem to.

1. If you are selling "guaranteed views", then your buyers should understand that the guarantee only extends to the edge of your land. Parcels on the edge of that land cannot be sold with that guarantee (and perhaps should be dedicated to the "set aside for community use" program you mention.

2. 'Liberal' is not a swear word. 'Hippy' and 'Artisan' are not insults.



I am not in the category of 'older player' that Pendari and others on this thread are. I have only been playing for 8 months or so. Yet Prokofy's bias and scorn is evident for me to see, too. I have read this thread several times and of the many people posting here, I count two neutrals, and two batting for his side. The two batting for Prokofy are ... Prokofy himself, and his alt.

It's a wonderful vision, to maintain a beautiful residential area people can live within in confidence. However, one of the prerequisites is a project leader who can play well with others.

On a totally unrelated note, anyone looked over some of the Second Life Herald's older postings on TSO drama?

Lisse, I can understand that when someone comes in and challenges the comfortable status quo it isn't pleasant. My first dispute in the forums was with your condescending attitude toward me because I chose to take the dwell system seriously, ask a lot of questions about it, and support further inquiry into it. You scornfully turned it away as a "sucker's game" and lorded it over me because you took in rent money each week, and added insult to injury by castigating me because I chose to buy a new sim and try a project -- while still believing dwell is important and still believing playing with just a premium account and a 512 is also important. I tried to mollify you, but unsuccessfully. It just seems very important to you to be right -- so fine, be right. Stay with that if you want. But the game is growing by leaps and bounds around you with the entry of many new people with many different ideas and visions.

Land is land. You don't have to be a saint or free from controversy for people to just buy it and try to have a residential community. This isn't Neualtenberg or some kind of hippie commune. Hippie isn't an insult to my mind, it's just a description.

It's just a game.

I personally am going to retire from forum discussions now. I only entered into this latest fray because Pahoa decided to air her ridiculous indignation publicly. But I've made my point and then some with you and others. Play your game -- nobody has taken a thing away from you. But if you keep up that insular attitude you will find yourself without customers -- just like the Lindens.

Let me give you the short form on this everybody, save you miles of reading

I opposed rampant display of BDSM lots and practices in public lots in TSO, given that there are children as young as 9 in the game informally, and as young as 13 legally. If anybody wants to go on that wild goose chase, they can go read the debates pro and con for allowing BDSM to hang it all out in a game with children in it, as well as non-consenting adults. But this debate isn't relevant to SL because there aren't the same kind of public skilling lots as there are in TSO, and of course, there aren't children -- in theory anyway. It is not a debate about tolerance of lifestyles, it's a debate about exposing them to minors.

Hmmm I see the TSO Refugee took this opportunity to assault my associates in my abscence.

Unfortunate, Prokofy as you will note yes I and my associates are older players.
However, based on the illiteration of the incident from my associates I had been requested to in essence to stay my thoughts and opinions as I already have a formulated opinion of you from past experience.

However this last debacle of responce from you cut to a point of where I had to speak up but not in reference to the aforementioned situation of the land.



Based on past experience with you and your indignation with "OLDER" players your contempt alone is why you entered in this "FRAY". Would you like me to enlighten you as to this point. It was mainly because Pahoa never outted you in her initial post you did that all on your own.

Had you kept your mouth shut you would have never looked the fool as you do now talking in circles and basing things on you "YOUR" opinion of things.

Pahoa gave you an answer you continued to inquire which bordered on Harrassment. I have known Pahoa for almost a year and a half now and she doesnt speak out unless she is to a point and you Mr. Prokofy crossed that with your indignation.

So did you really get your point across as I am still flabberghasted as to what the point was. Inquiring is an innocent thing. However, to continually do so because you feel your Buisness relys on it, is considered harrassment. I basically told Pahoa when this all was explained to me. I told her to report you for harrasment as you were infringing on her and the groups rights to do as we wished with our land.

Again what was your point.....

was it?

A)I'm a land barron and I am trying to make money selling plots of land to Newbies

B)I'm a Self ritious indignation anus attempting to impose my will on others

C)I'm a concerened citizen of Second Life and being such I want to make sure UGLY builds do not exist.

Your Choice pick one as I have more that possibly could apply as well

Either way Prokofy your point was not made you talked in circles which from your long drawn out points of the past is a steadfast ploy of yours to bore people to tears with idle banter and confuse them from the actual point of the post.

So, My point is this Prokofy, Your buisness is your buisness I have stayed out of this for the most part. However, I will not stand idly by when you rant in circles and try to defame a friend and associate.

If you have issues with your customers because you make grandious promises that you cannot keep is neither my nor anyone elses problems in Second Life.

If I as a Co-Founder of Jade Wolf decide to put out 5000, 10 meter by 10 meter cubes and stack them to the moon. It is none of your concern nor do you have the right to even inquire about them as we pay for that land and its our choice since we "PAY" for the right to utilize that space and neither you nor anyone else can TELL us what to do with it. Consider that an indignatious reply however the point is basicly GTFOI.

So, in closing to you MR TSO Refugee, maybe you might ought to reconsider your stance on things as your point was never made your concern was only for yourself and if you were being a concerend neighbor you would have respected Pahoa's responce to you whether it was short or even vague as that is her right. Give respect you will get it and in this situation you gave none.

Have a Nice Day

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver , Co-Founder of Jade Wolf, SLVISIONS, and AN ANCIENT.

I have just visited Carlisle to see for myself, before posting on here.

Although you should be able to build whatever you wish on your land, personally I would not like to look out from my plot and see the gorilla. A lot of people, me included, want to have a pleasant, natural view from their land and I can understand why the person sold the plot back to the owner of the sim.

You may wish to discount the view of a newbie but nevertheless this is my opinion.



Happy New Year

Alexa

Can you all take a moment to consider King Kong's feelings in all of this. Monkeys have feelings to!!!

Dont worry hun, I went and sat with him today for a bit.

We had a nice talk and he is feeling much better now. He promised not to go stomping anyone or grabbing passing water craft or air craft from the sky.

I've not been there to look yet, so apart from posted pics, I have no idea what the land looks like in those sims. However, I have to ask how someone can put Starax's work down by comparing it to the work of 'the best builders in SL'...?

Most people would probably agree that Starax IS one of the best builders in SL, certainly in the top half dozen... Next thing, you'll be calling Maxx or Lordfly amateurs... Sheesh!

King Kong can come live with me...Right off my dock! I will sleep on his head.

Loving the King since 19??

This is an old old dilemma here in SL, one that has also cropped up with controversy on the forums. The two schools present the same arguments and there is a call for zoning or Linden intervention.

Yes there are some land owners who deliberately build a terrible build or block a water way just to force neighboring owners to buy them out at exorbitant prices but Pahoa, Shadow and Crimson (hi Crim! ) are the some of the nicest members in SL. Crimson was my neighbor for a long time in Mauve and I know with certainty that he is very concerned with maintaining the beauty of a build.

There is a solution to this problem. If you want total control of a sim then buy your own island sim. There used to be Linden enforcement of theme sims such as Darkwood, but that was stopped. Even now when people move into Ravenglass they can build a club or hold BINGO events every hour 24/7 if they choose. You cant stop that or control it.

You will learn that things change quickly in SL horizon and the only thing you can count on is that there will be change. Builds up, builds down..overnight. Sometimes a build can annoy you, such as that giant man seated on toilet that pops up now and then, but there is nothing that can be done except to ignore it.

By the way, Crim's Kong was my neighbor for a while, as was his dragon, and I thought it was a lot of fun! Kong stood guard over our pretty cove at Mauve Falls protecting us all.

Yesterday I felt like retiring from the forums, and even pressing "release" on my land. But after sleeping on it, I thought -- but I have paid, year-long subscriptions and investments, and of course I should stay and continue my business in the face of difficulties. As Hiro Pendragon said in another thread, this is a very high-risk environment in SL and it's not for the faint of heart. One of the great liabilities is the "mob justice" meted out on the forum, as one player put it to me. I continue to feel that public discussions should not be confused with mob justice, but I'm beginning to wonder. Shadow seemed to think that I "outed" myself by answering this public but anonymous post, but most people would have figured it out anyway after Elle's post. I don't see any need to abandon this avatar, despite many people's hurt feelings, and I'm going to soldier on. If you don't like Prokofy, you can always get to know one of my nicer alts.

The reason I can go on is this tiny newbie voice, this brave little post in a thicket of scorn and derision from older players. To wit:



Thank you, Alexa, God bless you. You voiced what many think and wish and you should feel empowered.

Given the high temperature of self-righteous indignation in all of these posts, I have to reiterate:

1. I asked Pahoa repeatedly and restated my concerns not because I was hounding her, but because I was trying to allay what seemed like really startling over-reaction and indignation over a simple request.

2. The person who inquired about the water didn't sell back precisely because she could be assured by this entire discussion that a) King Kong isn't moving to this side of the bay and b) there isn't some huge store to appear.

3. Lisse, in these posts I have taken on 3-4 players who have had a long ride without much of a challenge. My statement about the "beta test love fest with the Lindens" is actually an apt description of a common on-line game phenom described as the "fanboyz" problem elsewhere. It comes with the territory. All those adulatory bowing-and-scraping "Lindens We Luv Ya" type of posts that came in the wake of this latest hardware crashes are typical, and it helps to both poke fun at this phenom and push back. When Verizon or Time Warner mess up or crash, you don't see customer boards filling up with messages like "Hugz TW luv ya" or "Here's a Christmas cookie, Verizon". Irate customers are irate customers, and it used to be in the old American business lexicon, "The customer is always right." I'll remind you that this dispute began because I went to bat for a customer, and the dispute with Ulrika began because I went to bat for the concept of group projects, which I had, not being punished. That's not some kind of sinister "agenda," it's just representing an interest -- maybe not yours, but try to rent out YOUR property with King Kong in your tenants' face and then come back and talk.

4. I do not sell land with any kind of "guaranteed view" or any such false claim. Buyers are grownups. And I've been highly flexible in solving existing view issues with buyers as they know, even willing to buy back. I take Sam's advice to heart and I will definitely try the "rental only" idea on my next project. It's true that at any moment Blue Burke could swoop down and buy the whole bunch of lots and put in a store -- that, frankly, was my worst fear going into it. But I've talked to Blue Burke, and now that he's a proud house owner himself with purchased waterway rights, and had a chance to think of other issues I've raised, he isn't really so inclined. Really, he, Anshe, and others have "enough". There are so many new sims, and so much of their unsold land, that they don't need to invade what is clearly a residential sim and carve it up. Maybe when the land market is less soft for sellers, that could change, but we can only try, right?

My experiment isn't the first of its kind nor the last. Many will have to be tried, and obviously in the face of tremendous intolerance, suspicion, and scorn from some old players. Who cares? When I first flew around SL, I thought it was fun to land on a dragon's head and play in a waterfall. But when I invested in land, suddenly I had to turn around my perspective. A waterfall causes lag. A dragon's head isn't fun to look at day after day. It would never have occurred to me to start any fight over King Kong. I didn't think it was a wise design decision, and that has NOTHING to do with the actual workmanship or artistry of Starax -- who is obviously excellent. The fact is, King Kong belongs not in WATER but in the JUNGLE. I saw some of my neighbours sitting on his arms enjoying a chat, and I realized that some people would enjoy this whimsy. But they enjoy it more when they fly to it for a visit, not stare at it off their porch. It's OK to voice these concerns. Pahoa engineered a stampede of support for King Kong among the five percent of players who are her friends AND post in forums. But there is a huge population out there, and Alexa has indicated that underneath all that surface adulation, there is the common-sense issue of people wanting to look at natural land -- full stop!

Among the more inane comments is a carping about the use of the word "build" or assignment of the issue of King Kong to Pahoa Jade. Obviously we can look at the object creator -- Crimson. And obviously we see it's sculpture. The term "builds" is generic about stuff in the water.

As for Pendari's comments about the whole Ulrika debate, that's too tiresome to rehearse here. Go and read that thread and continue the debate back there if you wish and try to trap me in contradictions all day if you want -- it's a great sport! -- but the fact is we all know Ulrika *campaigned vociferously* to affect Linden policy -- namely taxation of barons and group project leaders -- and that's way, way different than merely "starting a discussion". Why? Because she used her perch from Neualtenberg, with its avowed social democratic community, and its avowed subsidized Linden status, to get the visibility and clout to seek her way. Let's just hope the Lindens have the good sense to stay FAR away from this idea -- they're already losing Schwanson over poor service issues -- no need to club people like him with retroactive taxes, too.

Many people have said "well go buy a sim" -- uh, yeah, I tried that. Actdually buy FOUR sims might be a better piece of advice LOL. Buy a private island? Not on your life. Go read all the posts about the buggyness of private sims. Anyway, who wants to try residential experiments off the grid? It's much more useful to try them on the grid with telehubs nearby -- those are more widespread game conditions.

Let me round out this post by noting once again:

A. No one asked Pahoa Jade and her group to *change a thing*. They asked about *intentions*. This caused an uproar. That kind of oversensitive reaction is displayed for all to see now. It shows the Lindens what a hornets nest this is, and it seems like they've fled from the problem, but I'm not going to, and the customer isn't, either, so it seems this gorilla-in-a-teapot is going to blow over. If Shadow files some kind of "abuse" report and the Lindens fish out the IM transcripts, I'm totally confident that it will be rapidly evident that there is no harassment, merely an attempt to find out intensions in a wall of oversensitive suspicion.

B. I personally intend to do nothing but fly around the lovely Starax creatures or steer a boat around them. I don't intend to negrate, to get into fractious Hatfield-McCoy type of disputes, or do anything but trying to keep a sim that I bought residential to the best of my ability.

C. I hope Pahoa and co. get a lot more dwell as people come out and look at these creatures. They can form their own judgement as to whether they have the same beauty they had in a falls in Mauve. It's not a question of whether the people running them are "nice" or "my old neighbors" or "trusted old players". Try to look at it dispassionately as a problem for these waterway sims with lots of islands -- they don't really fit.

OMG! KING KONG! EOM

Prokofky,

Its not that there is a blind "love fest" with the Lindens as you characterize it, it's that we have seen the amazing growth and development of SL over the past year. Consider all the content that exists, and all the things you are able to do and create in SL; it's an undeniably wonderful accomplishment. Nothing is perfect, and each step along the way requires ironing out the bugs, but still new content is added regularly. And these are major content additions such as streaming music and animations.

As far as private island sims and the bugginess concern, I have a private island sim and its all good as far as I am concerned. I love it and have never regretted my decision to get one.

I think concluding that veteran members feel scorn or intolerance for new members is a bit harsh. I know I certainly love having all the new members in SL and the entire community benefits from their creativity and ideas. Try giving us a chance too!