Buying and Selling Land

ahh - never mind - my mistake...

Catherine,

If you're serious about winning an auction, these are the tips I give to people:

The following are more likely to have less bids, lower winning prices, and be passed over by the "bulk buyers"

Auctions closing on a Sunday afternoon

Auctions closing at the tail end of days with a larger number of auctions

PG land

Anything under 1024m2

Auctions for land in Sims that are the last of their rollout to be auctioned

Most bulk buyers have a fixed US$ or L$/m2 they will bid up to for PG and mature land. If you have an eye on a lot in a particular Sim, check the auctions that have closed already for land in that sim, see what the max bid was for the bulk buyer, work out the ratio they're working on for that Sim, and use that to make your own informed max bid.

Right now, auction prices are relatively high. Towards the end of the last snow sim rollout, prices were pretty low as people were getting tired of snow, and it was possible to pick up lots for US$1/100m2, or L$2/m2.

I don't except to see that in the Lost Lakes for a while, but if they push them to auction fast enough, it may happen by the time we get down to the last 3 or 4 - especially if they already have a new rollout in place by then.

If you'd be okay with "used" land, then keep looking at the privately owned lots. Many people put them for sale at dream prices, but will accept an offer of much less. As long as you know you're offering what you feel is a fair price, send the owner an IM - it can't hurt.

And by all means, continue to avoid buying land with For Sale signs on it. I wish I could, but sadly it is all around the two developments I'm trying to expand. I try to resist until the price drops, though!

Good luck in your search, and feel free to IM me in-world for my no-cost buyer's realtor services!

I have a 1024 plot in Livigno (mature snow) for sale right now. I don't have a for sale sign on it because I'm not too concerned with how fast it sells. It's priced at L$8,000 (I think) but I'd be very flexible on price. I chose that price because I wanted to try and not take too much of a loss on it, but I realize I bought when prices were much higher and won't get what I paid for it. (L$10,000+) The plot is flat (terraformed before I purchased it) and on a mountian. It's low traffic, so not ideal for a business, but it would be great for building on.

If you're interested Catherine (or anyone) send me an IM in world. I would much rather lower the price and sell to someone who would actually use the land, rather than split it in half and resell.

I agree with this also, though I am no longer in SL, when I was looking for my first land, I noticed that the first part was 512 first land, and the other 512 was bought, purely to force the person to buy it for 22000 +, this I found rather sad.

I have come across many things in SL that I just found sad, the money issue and land leads to many exploits, I’m not going to go into what I have come across, but I couldn’t be doing with it, there has to be some kind of regulation on this kind of thing.

I sympathize and agree, Catherine. And if you look, four new sims are fresh up on the auciton block--all sold at once. I wonder who has the pockets to pay for full sims in auctions? It's almost as if LL is aiming their land sales AT land barons.

My question is: LL, if you have a vision, tell us what it is. Just stop leaving us in the dark; if you want land barons to ransack Second Life and make purchasing land at a decent price impossible, let us know.

Wow.

This is coming from the person who set her land for sale, in grignano, to $150,000 lindens PER PARCEL (each parcel just under 1000 square meters), and refused to come down on the price.

---
Pot: Pot to kettle, pot to kettle, come in kettle, over.
Kettle: This is kettle, over.
Pot: Roger that kettle, just letting you know that you're black, over.
Kettle: Roger that, pot, black as night, over.
---



Really. Have fun enforcing that. Try explaining to the 1000 new people who come in a week that they shouldn't buy land for the next two months because you want to drive prices down to... what, $1L/meter?

Not only that, assuming you COULD stop all land transactions from these land barons... well, first, assuming anyone can concretely define land baron without coming up with 30 exceptions... then what? They wait 2 months, and go back to selling. Nothing is gained except 2 months on the calandar.

Land prices are perfectly fine where they're at. The vast majority of plots for sale are selling for less than $6/meter. The average price is $5.88, and the median is just over $5. Where were you when land prices were shooting up to over $15?

Oh, that's right, trying to unload YOUR land at $130/meter...



Sorry, I have no problem with people complaining, but when they complain about something they themselves are a part of, then it's time for me to call shenanigans.

edit: DOUBLE SHENANIGANS! You have your plots priced again, this time for the low low low price of $L92/meter and $L65/meter. Arghargharghargh.

Well said Catherine - totally agree with you. It would be nice if we could get everyone in SL to refrain from buying for a month or two but its just not going to happen unfortunately.

Lisse, those are useful tips but why should everyone have to go through that process just to win land at auction?

Daemioth, good point - i would like LL to come on here and explain their thinking on this subject, I can only assume it is money motivated and to hell with the residents.

Lisse,
Yes, people can do what you suggest, but why should people have to do all that bullcrap just to get a nice plot of land?

I still think two things would be the most valuable to help the barrony situation.

1. Make all land transactions public knowledge.
2. Implement a resale tax on any land sold within a month of purchase, inversely proportional to the time since purchase, and based on meters squared.

Latonia/Hiro

Yes - they shouldn't have to try that hard. But with things the way they are right now, that's what you have to do in order to win an auction at a decent price. Let's hope things change soon.

I am only too willing to share my own observations of winning strategies in the vain hope that more "average residents" will be getting land through the auctions, at prices which they are happy with. I know many, many new residents who are discouraged with the auctions and would like them to continue to consider auctions as a good way of getting the land they need.

I wish I did have a magic wand to wave to make all the land purchasing problems go away. But none of my wands are Wands of Banishment

I think a big thing that needs to happen is if someone defaults on an auction, they should no longer be able to buy in the auctions.

People are exploiting defaulting and the seven day land hold dealie.

Well, a person.

Hiro - yes, yes and yes.

Oneironaut - well said.

I think we have keep to keep posting on these forums until something is done about it.

Lat

Open land transactions, we need to see what is happening. I suspect it is a Oligopoly, where there are a limited number of sellers (we're talking by gross amount of sq/m in inventory) to a large number of buyers.

This information advantage has to end, I call upon Linden Lab to consider OPEN LAND TRANSACTIONS, so we can see the disparities in the overall market, the percentage of ownership of land throughout the grid, etc..

I can get this data in RL, why not SL?

Lisse;

Thank you for your response some of your tips were helpful. Unfortunately I would like plots of land larger than 1024m2. Nor do I wish to settle for the bottom of the barrel type of land. Most of which is darn near impossible to build on. Again thanks for the response I am sure some will find a great deal of help with your suggestions.
Cath

Jonquille;

You hit the nail on the head! You cannot sell your land for a decent price because you originaly didn't buy it for a decent price. 1024 @ 8k = 7.81 per. Again the middle man/woman made a killing and ppl are left holding the bag. Good luck I hope you find a buyer.

Cath

Mike;

Thanks for your post at least I am not alone in feeling the way I do. I found comfort in your opinions. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Not as many ppl speak out as to what bothers them I am so glad to see you did. I hope you come back to SL look me up if you do ok

Cath

Dae;

Thanks so much Dae! Your absolutely right all 4 sims sold to the same individuals who continue to buy up huge parcels of land. Unfortunately they almost immediately resell that same land at prices way above fair market value.

I agree with your last paragraph also! What is the plan LL? Are we to accept that land can only be bought from land barons? Have you stepped out of the business of managing your own virtual real estate? If so why?

Cath

Last night i was comparing prices to 2 months ago on auctions

Mature land was about 9.7L/m

PG land was about 3.3 - 5.0L/m

Same as about 2 months ago.

If you want 1/4 mature sim (16k of land) then your looking for something unique. But you could get it right now in one of the new sims bought by those barons at 9.7L/m

Is it high? sure, but then it will sit unsold if noone wants it, but land is being sold in them, so apparently the price is acceptable to some.

Would it be nice to get land for free or 2L/m, ssure, and you can get some for that, but not land that you would want, hence the low price.

Its as always a supply and demand sorta thing.

Hey LF

Please check your figures again the land that your talking about is in Grignano. Secondly that land supports double the amount of prims that other land as it is a city lot and is the exception to the rule. Lastly on the facts; that land is for sale for 80k not the 150,000 your quoting.

I think it should also be mentioned that you have always had your eye on it. I have toyed with the idea of selling it in the past. Look around the city LF 512m2 for 35,000-65,000 historically.

I agree the land is over priced but how much did I pay for it? Did I pay L$ or RL$ and how does that equate to the price?

Again as long as the we continue to pay the middle man we all will continue to pay to much for land.

FYI I have also historically taken a loss on the majority of the land I have sold to other residents. I sold it at a loss because A) I knew them well or B) They had a fantastic idea for the land.

LF I am sorry you and I differ on our opinions but please try to keep an open mind I am an elfin not an ogre
Cath

Latonia;

Thanks so much! I realy appreciate your kind words

Hugz you!

Cath

One;

Absolutely!! I could not agree more. If a person defaults on the auction they lose the privilege, agreed whole heartedly.

Thanks for bringing that up that very valid point on the exploit as well! The exploit should be eradicated immediately.

Thanks!

Cath

Hiro;

I think that your suggestions are a great start I support these suggestions 100%!
If these ppl are in the business of just making money then they should be addressed as business ppl as well. I agree that certain guidelines should be set in place to offset the unbalanced real estate market that is affecting so many now. Your suggestions should be taken seriously by LL.
Cath.

Maxx;

Fantastic ideas! I completely agree with Open Land Transactions. The data should be available for viewing at any given time. As I have analyzed the available data in world as a well as in the auctions (granted that data is somewhat limited) I agree that there does seem to be an off balance in the buyer/seller ratio. Having this data will at least give some indication of the virtual real estate market trends. Love your suggestion I think its not only necessary but essential.
Thanks so much for your input.

Cath

Archaegeo;

Excellent data thank you! Those prices seem true enough threw the current auction prices. Unfortunatly they are not the true prices that the average person is going to pay for the same land. More often than not huge parcels and even entire sims are being purchased. The buyer then subdivides the land into 512-1024 m2 parcels. The average price the average buyer is being subjected to is L$2999 for a 512m2 plot of land. Which equates to L$5.85 per m2 for pg land and double that for mature land.

The difference between the buying price and the selling price is huge right now.

Again why are we buying from the middle man? If I have to pay the over inflated price of course I have no choice but to pass that cost on to others. Another thing that is happening is the person who bought the land is again jacking the price up so that they can make a profit. At what point do we say "enough I am not willing to pay these prices". I don't know about everyone else but I take the time to work out how much US/RL$ that 1024 m2 plot of land is.

Reality check;

PG LAND:

A parcel 4096m2 average selling price in world; 5.5 per m2 pg land = L$ 22,500 (based on the average of 1.25 per 250 L on the GOM) = 90 blocks x 1.25 per block = $112.50 US$ for a 4096m2 plot of land.


M Land

A parcel 4096m2 average selling price in world; 5.9 per m2 pg land = L$ 23,999 (based on the average of 1.25 per 250 L on the GOM) = 95.996 (96 blocs) blocks x 1.25 per block = $120.00 US$ for a 4096m2 plot of land.

Considering that an entire sim is 1200.00 US. (aprox. in Auctions) = 65536m2 price per sim.
Which = 16 blocks of 4096m2 parcels. which costs the buyer $75.00 per block. The profit they are now recieving is now $37.50 per parcel in PG land. For M land the profit is $45.00 US per each 4096 m2 of land they sell.

What does that equal to in profit for an entire sim?

PG land

$37.50 x 16 = $600.00 pure profit
M Land

$45.00 x 16 = $720.00 pure profit

----------------------------------------
With these kinds of profits being made is it obvious to me that this trend will continue until ppl just stop buying this land from the middle man.

Cath.

Land is very reasonably priced compared to a month ago or so... 3L$/M is not an outrageous price...