Open Letter to So Many Anti-Government Whiners

Ulrika agrees with me? OMG, where did I go wrong!

If your group owns the sim, you can ban them from the sim.

In effect, really, we already have many player governments. People just like to pretend they don't exist.

Devlin, the short version:

The current model is basically a national periodic meeting which hears representatives sent by groups (of a yet-to-be-determined minimum size) that are either Interest Groups or geographically constituted groups. The reps are selected by the groups using whatever means they prefer, and come with whatever messages their groups send them with. The meeting hears every rep who wants to speak and compiles all speeches and presented missives for publication. If there are issues to be discussed among the members, that is done. If there are replies from the Lindens to be read and published, that is done. If there are any decisions to be made by the meeting, they are approved unanimously or aren't approved. If there is a dissenter, then they can stand down, leave, or insist. If they insist, then the decision is tabled. There is no budget or general fund. There are no votes taken at the meeting. All minutes from the meeting are published. There are no closed meetings or discussions.

The object of this is to make sure there is NO power at the national level that isn't brought to it from the local levels. All executive power - or "enforcement" power - stays in the hands of the Lindens. Since the Meeting doesn't make any laws, there would be no need for such power anyway.

The purpose of this Meeting is to provide a clearing house for group concerns and issues, and a record of such. This info is both for the Lindens, and for the public at large. This is a way for groups to be represented without having to rely on forum postings, one-on-one email and IMs to the Lindens, and demonstrations. However, none of these methods will be interfered with in any way by the Meeting. Any participation in this process is strictly at the discretion of each group. Every dissenting opinion will be published in the same manner as the rest of the minutes.

At the bottom, the Meeting has only one real power: the power to focus and publish the views and issues of the groups who participate. It can also serve as a discussion forum, or facilitate voluntary arbitration. Any arbitration would be subject to review by the Lindens.

The problem of griefers, etc, would not be within the realm of this organization. All police power stays with the Lindens. However, by providing these communication conduits, and whatever other social programs possible, perhaps we can free up some Linden resources for policing.

If the Lindens ever do create a civilian police force, this Meeting will not control them in any way. Such a group would, of course, have it's say in the Meeting if it felt so inclined.

I don't know if I've left anything out, but I think that's what we've covered so far.

Not according to the model I'm proposing. Please read the posting above where I recap some of the points so far.

No zoning. That can only be local. At the most, we might talk about it, but the Meeting cannot make any ruling about it. Only the local government or the Lindens can do that. Same for the other things you mention.

Kathy's idea for an SL version of the Model UN aside, there are a lot of pressures building on our world that will need to be addressed eventually.

I'd write more, but does anyone really want to discuss other options or just attack and defend Kathy?

I'm not. I'm trying to give them a place where they can speak with equal voices, and learn from each other.

OMG free cheese? oO Count me in! Woo-hoo for government!

The fact that you are statistically correct regarding the overall population still does not make the statement in the forums, in the course of this thread, any less arrogant or insulting.

Knowing the intricacies of how government works and seeing the effects of government in daily life are two seperate things. Not everyone has to be a computer programmer to operate a computer program and see how computers are important to our way of life. Pointing out the fact that most don't take the classes after high school doesn't make any points incorrect. I have seen many opinions brought up that are good points for the most part. Blowing people off because they don't have the educational background is not right. If you believe that everyone in here has to be educated in the workings of a government in order to voice an opinion or be taken serious you are mistaken.

This condescending tone of these posts is rude.

Bridget,

I understand your reservations. My plan is to avoid any expenditure by the company - or anyone else for that matter. This “government” would not interfere with any activities the Lindens currently perform. Hopefully, we can actually help in several areas. Most especially in communication between Linden Lab and the Groups in Second Life. While they do currently read the more exciting arguments in the forums - at least parts of them - I feel that this is not the most effective way for them to understand the needs and issues of their customers.

This committee would not be empowered to force anyone to do aanything.

I'm interested. Though I would like to keep the discussion around the "alternative forms of government or organization" area. Do you have issues with particular features of my model?

Do you have a model you prefer?

Ah, whatever. I'll rant for a sec.

Folks, are your individual voices being heard like they used to be?

I don't think so. The Lindens have done an admirable job of treating their customers fairly, but as the world has grown, they've also made it more and more clear they prefer dealing with the big-timers.

Island owners enjoy far more power over their own land than any smaller landowner does. A great deal of coding has gone towards granting them special rights. This has been true for a while now.

Another big move was made in this direction just recently. LL has set up the Concierge line. The whole point of this line is to provide special service to those who have large projects, and the key point is you must own at least 1/2 a sim's worth of land to use this line.

Linden Lab is in fact setting up an aristocratic layer of society. It makes things easier on them if from now on they only have direct business dealings with the major players and let the small-timers fend for themselves.

To get to the point - if you want to get the ear of a Linden now for anything other than TOS enforcement or bug reporting, you're going to need some clout on your side. That clout is either going to be as a big-paying customer, or as representation in a group.

That said, if all you want to do here is goof off, there's still no reason to submit to a player government.

I'm interested to a point, but the way the forums are going, I think it's pointless to discuss this in open view.

It's an ongoing mystery to me why so many people are against self governance when the Lindens openly and for two years have said that this is the vision they have for SL. "I deal with the Lindens, not you". No. In fact, I'm willing to bet you deal with players more than you deal with Lindens. What is meant is, people cry to the Lindens and because you pay for the service you feel have the right to demand their intervention whenever you want it.

Seems the majority of people don't want self governance or personal accountability at all. They want a paid vengeful deity to instill fear and order. Perhaps this is part of why Philip stated his faith has been bruised by the residents of SL. Mine as well.

How does a test to measure american youth preparedness correlate to that of SLers? I don't know if you realize it, but the average SLer is usually fairly educated and creative. The assumption that because some one disagrees with your assertions must be because of a lack of knowledge in politics is likely untrue. I think that most of the people who are expressing no desire for SL player run gov't are actually the opposite. People who know a bit about politics. So they are justifiably skeptical. Myself and other immediate family members have volunteered to work at the polls, put up yard signs and one even does door knockings. All of are very aware of how the machine works and are actively involved in real life. That is the biggest problem for me here. I don't want the place I go to to get away from just such activity to be turned into a handful of politics addict's experiment. Especially when I have fundamental issues with the type of systems being suggested.

Just because someone graduates high school does not mean that they stop learning. I am also fairly sure that you will find more people in SL with degrees or at least some post high school education and/or training than your average MMOE. I really think that this is why you folks are being seen as arrogant.

Amanda,

Given my proposal, which would have no way of forcing anyone to "submit" anything, I don't see that we're too far apart in our appraisal of current circumstances. If anything, I'm hoping to adda bit more clout to those who aren't big money groupies.

Actually, Tcoz, I think I've gotten a lot of good input here. I've made some adjustments as we went along. I'm fairly confident - now - that we would be able to start off fairly easily.

I don't get the sense, anymore that the majority of any group is adamantly against a new branch of government.

I don't know if you have the energy to read everything here - I sure have sore eyes and fingers - but scroll up a bit and see if you can find one of my posts that sums up the basic idea of my current model.

I think we can do it.

By the way, I started this thread in reaction to some of the posts in your thread about alts. While I don't actually agree with the idea of mandatory disclosure of alts, I was rather upset at how your ideas were treated.

I think we can create a forum where ideas - even unpopular ideas - can be heard clearly and respectfully.

Kathy, my main issue is with the national assembly. I think it is premature, but in and of itself setting up an organization (much like the UN) which has delegates from the various power bases in SL would be very interesting. It just shouldn't recieve any form of special Linden recognition. If it did, it would become an extra layer between us and the Lindens, as Chip and others have pointed out.

So, for the time being I'd rather see a continuation of the "adhocracy" model on the SL-wide scale. In other words, bringing single issues to the Lindens in the form of a petition, or a group devoted to a particular interest. I don't think it will serve anyone well to institutionalize a formal "petition-making" body.

On the other hand, I think it's becoming very important that groups get more power on a local level. We need more group tools, to allow a union or democratic group to collectively have the same enforcement rights and access to special services that are granted to island owners. We need contract tools, and means of placing covenants on privately owned neighborhoods.

As a start I think being able to delegate certain property rights would be useful. Like giving someone else the right to use Freeze or Eject on your land. Or allowing others to play janitor.

We need more simple tools like that before we go talking about national assemblies.

in looking at the forums you see what people want:
- a say in how dwell is distrubted
- reforms in ratings
- an end to land barons
- zoning
- to get paid by the lindens to hold events
- the ability to prioritize features and bug fixes
- free land tier
- better security/policing
- release of ll's records wrt to resident's identity
- legal action against griefers
- ll to pay attention to player gripes
- information on ll's research policies
- improvements in mentor selection

they want ll to listen to them. but why should ll listen to the people in the forums more than anyone else?

petitioning the powers that be for favors, justice, blessings, vengence... this is a form of government. and it works for many people in the forums.

and then there is a certain amount of if you know the right person to ask, thing can happen. and this works for many people in the forums. and this too is a form of government.

if decisions are being made, and power is being using, and resources are being allocated, then that is government. and it is naive to think that only ll employees have been, are, or will be part of that de facto government.

it seem that people aren't really against government so much as a government that is visible, more democratic, and more egalitarian.

I don't intend for it to receive anymore recognition than that naturally due its participants. On one hand, I view it as fulfilling a very important (and increasingly important) role that is at a par with other forms of petition or communication with the Lindens or the Public. On the other hand, I see it as actually adding a form of "balance" to the executive branch - the Lindens.



It's important that people realize that this approach is always in addition to all other methods. It serves one particular constituency: Groups. which brings us to:



This was a major consideration for me to develop this model. One of the strongest positive effects it has is that it gives the "Group" a legitimacy and governmental potential that raises it above the typical uses for Groups. I think it will help push Group interface development, and make at least some of our Groups into actual self-governmental entities on the local level.

I think this organization will help achieve what you describe.

In what context did he state this, and where?

Civil Disobedience Thoreau

Are you saying that you think some form of government should be set up by a small group and then just sprung ready-to-go on the users at large? Go for it.

I think I mostly agree with everything that Chip and Eggy have said, so I'll just add the points that I didn't see mentioned.

Someone mentioned that the typical user isn't a political scientist and doesn't know how their own real world government works, and that may well be true. But that is no reason for us to be eager Guinea pigs for someone's college dissertation either. The thing that bothers me most about suggestions that we need an all-encompassing SL government is that the proponents of it are *SO* damned obsessed about it. One can't help but ask "what is the hidden agenda here?" Simply claiming that there is none doesn't satisfy all of us in light of the following...

Prior to the founding of the New World people who were totally against the government they found themselves under always had the option (though not an easy one perhaps) of fleeing to another country. They also had the option of fleeing to another unexplored continent and starting their own government. Not surprisingly, those that took the latter course opted for the absolutely smallest government they could imagine. America was big enough that you could always get far enough from any government official so as not to have to worry about government at all. Thats the sort of "self government" that I'd find acceptable for SL: One in which every user could choose to be a part of this government or that one, or none at all.

Didn't the first such voluntary government in SL just have their first election? It seemed to me that it took a long time for such a small group to do that, but bravo for them anyway. Now we can look for a nice community of well manicured lawns somewhere in SL, and maybe by such an example others will come along and say "How do I be a part of this?" By that means such a government could grow to include the vast majority of SL users, and for those who didn't want to join, what harm would it do if they took another approach, or just worked within the TOS?

Which brings me back to the question of hidden agendas. If those wanting so desperately to have an SL government are not willing to have it be a voluntary thing, then what is it you are not telling us about it, and why can't it be discussed in the open?

In the real world until man really starts to explore space, no person on Earth will ever have that freedom again of striking out on his or her own and doing things exactly the way they want to do them. In SL, at least, for now, we pretty much have that freedom. Why ruin it?

I like you, Isis. (Well, in the "Yeah, what she said," sort of way, not in the like-"like" sort of way... um, you know what I mean. )

Mac,

The proposal i've put forth is for a completely optional membership. You can always leave its "country" by simply deciding not to participate. At the very worst, you may want to leave the Group you're in that participates. Though I suspect that will seldom be required either.

I think what this is all about is we need to lobby for more technical tools which enables groups to have more ability to control over their domain.

Also more incentive for people to create groups would be a good idea.

One thing I have proposed is that we can pool our 'land tier' so that instead of just adding it actually follows the volume discounts that SL gives individual players..