Open Letter to So Many Anti-Government Whiners

ll listens.

lobbying as implemented throughout history varies little from how it works in the usa. imho.

because you have an interesting mind

quite contrare El-Libo... it was Ulrika who brought it up... I have refraineed from diving into it because I do not think it is appropriate to do so here...convenient memory you have there

Kathy,

Not sure if you recognize it or not, but Grimmy Moonflower has placed a price on your head. Check it out on his homepage, "Good Grief"

Tee Hee Hee.

Yes, Kathy, this even through agreement of your organizational structure what would prevent this.
I know my sentiment of active participation of all being informed would be one aspect.
Yet, how would you ammend your proposal to accomodate for this sort of Morphing infastructure?

Shadow...The Ancient

My name is Kendra, Billy -- kindly refer to me by my name and not "El-Libo".
I have no interest in your private doings, kindly post to the topic or don't post at all.

i'm not kathy, but i have three answers to this:
1) the lindens
2) planning in advance to prevent (or minimize) this
3) no matter what, i think it will go down that road to some extent. the current resident intiated changes to sl should tell you that.

LMAO thats been out for almost two years come June and no one has collected on it.

But seriously it has no bearing on this conversation.
Sorry, not being rude just trying to keep things from being derailed here.

Shadow

Continue on People I will be back in about an hour as I have a doctors appointment but dont sideline twist the thread cause I gotta go to the doc...the discussion is going rather well so I'd like to come back to some new interesting view points..

See y'all in a bit

Shadow

I'll be sure to give you a copy of the Little Red book of SL-gov.

-- Bridget

I won't assume Linden Lab will interfer with the internal operations of group workings that are not violating the TOS or Community Standards.

Publically they are very good at staying out of internal politics.

It is a government.

In RL LL is a company. In SL LL is a government.
In RL LL cannot ban you from your home or take it. In SL LL can ban you and take all your possessions.
In RL LL provides a product. In SL LL provides weekly stipends.
In RL LL cannot censor your speech. In SL LL can censor your speech (PG).
In RL our land tier fee is payment for resources. In SL the land tier fee is equivalent to property tax.

When I talk about LL being a government, I am referring to it within the context of the immersive SL world.

If we could dismiss LL as a government, then we could dismiss our attempts at creating a government just as equally and then there would be no point of this thread.

~Ulrika~

intentions are never known directly, they are inferred from word and deed.

what people really fear in a government is the unseen intentions of those in power. if those intentions are bad, it is usually too late to do anything about it by the time those intentions become deeds. but there are other signs people use: the manner of speech, how one treats other people, and the concordance of past speech with current speech. of course clever politicians try to keep such things far from the view of the populace.

the overt signs of power are not necessary and sufficient proofs of power. or vice versa.

publically, but privately?
and would any sl government affect that?

Why are you thinking in absolutes? Could there not be several forms of governance? Could different groups of people determine different levels of zoning from none to full?

Do you want to see such a government rolled out on a full scale or would you like to see it implemented in a few test sims first?

~Ulrika~

SL isn't RL. SL is a subset to RL therefore has no primacy.

SL is a product and service therefore LL retains all rights of rendering that produce and service at anytime. Therefore again primacy of RL[or Nature].

Stipends are not RL and cannot be exchanged to a 1-to-1 basis as a real currency, therefore again primacy of RL[Nature].

Actually if you were in LL's premises in RL they could exit you for saying Narf, or anything else. Therefore no censorship, they retain all rights to produce and service. Back to Primacy of RL[Nature]. Too easy.

Nope, because LL's currency isn't recognized widely enough to be considered as one. Last time I checked only governments can mint currency. Also LL isn't under the same obligation as a government to honor that 'currency'. So if LL decided tomorrow to turn it to say a Linden Rupy, and your Linden Dollars is all you had, well you are crap out of luck, pal.

SL isn't immersive categorically because it doesn't override your right to turn off the program and WALK AWAY. So not only does Primacy of Nature come into play, so does Volitional capacities.

"This has been a brought to you by Rational Objectivists for smarter people. Remember, Nature is the boss, you're the just here for the ride..."

-- Bridget

a form argument about government doesn't work for either side.

what happens has primacy. what happens is power is exercised and resources are allocated - that is most of government.

Well I'm not actually a politician, as I've already said. I have no desire to hold an office at all. If I did, I'd have it right now. I am, however, interested in finding ways to help SLers empower themselves and to create things that exist beyond the individual.

I would recommend reading through the Nberg forum. It is a political scientist's dream! I would be interested in hearing your comments. I know it's a bit different from the tit-for-tat format intellectual sparring you so love in the forums but I do think you'd enjoy it nonetheless.

~Ulrika~

and in sl, power is excercised by the person, or people, owning the land. this includes every officer in a group that owns the land. please argue this point with me. please try.

Then I should assume that the EU no longer recognizes the US as an actual entity? 1-to-1 exchange in cuurency and all that

I would if I knew what you were talking about. Please elaborate.

~Ulrika~

Brilliant! So by the principle of primacy LL is not a government within SL. Extrapolating, I can see that again by the principle of primacy, any discussion of government in this thread is moot as well.

I guess there's no need for you to post your concerns about government any more then is there?

~Ulrika~

No offense taken, Shadow. I only ask that you realize that nothing new is taking place here. Recognize that SL WILL have player government in some shape or form (e.g. N-burg). Recognize that Self-Govt threads like these have existed, exist, and will continue to exist as long as SL does.

Thats all, babe

sorry. i edited the post to phrase my point better. land is the only power we have in sl. agreements and constitutions and such are cute, but they're not binding. breach of contract is not even punishable. if you own the land, your decisions are final. if you're an officer in a group that owns the land, you have to politic and placate, because each person has equal power.

a third alternative is for everyone to own a piece of land and work cooperatively. that's the only way to give everyone equal rights inworld. the best way to do this is to begin a project with your own land and attract people to purchase land around you that share your vision and add to the domain. this is what happened in taber and is happening now in boardman.