Open Letter to So Many Anti-Government Whiners

Why should I? My contract is with Linden Labs. I like it that way.

Ferran and Lecktor, just for that I'll be returning your stolen lunch money immediately.

First, I asked why I should care that you PAY for the game. Not PLAY. You brought it up. Not me.

Second, I'm not trolling. I'm tired of letting this important possibility get pushed down again and again because the loud people don't like it. Maybe it NEEDS the volume I can give it. Maybe some other folks might want to talk if there's someone who'll stand by them.

Third, why don't you count up the many many gripes and complaints and people who shout about how the Lindens won't respond properly, or at all, and tell me we can just get along by wishing for more Lindens?

I don't care how much money they got recently, LL is not going to fields an army of Lindens to concierge us all and keep us civil. We're expected to self-govern and we're going to.

Your contract includes a clause that you agree to self-governance.

Didn't we beat the government topic-horse to death months ago?

So how about this: non-paranoid, non-overbearing people working to make your life better?

And when did you learn that democracy necessarily is despotic? Are you one of those people who assumes that, since YOU can't imagine it being done properly, eveyone else is too stupid to figure it out?

WOOO... now... Lunch... or CM fashions...

Ok ok okay... Chip I'll buy that corset, I'll buy 12... just make this CM Gestapo goon stop twisting my arm!!!

Perhaps in your own mind.

I say we settle all this in a dance off- No Gov VS. Pro-Gov.

It's on.

Who is doing it properly again? I see you talking to everyone from the initial thread as though they were a naughty toddler. I don't need an SL Mommy thank you.

Well if wench would volunteer for the post and promise to wear her really slutty heels.

Yes, that's it. You've nailed it. I'm too stupid. Thanks for the ad hominem, and for demonstrating what I mean about overbearing people.

Did the snow melt in Anzere or something ???

Ok..my main concerns would be:

1. I pay LL money for this service, and not any player government. I hold them responsible for the service provided, not a player government. I recognize them, as employees of the company, of having authority. I see my fellow players as having no authority outside of thier own land.

2. Can you show me a RL goverment that isn't corrupt to some extent? A player-run government would have far too much room for corruption, favoritism (intentional or not) and could be very subjective (the loudest voice wins).

3. A player government would have no way to enforce it's rulings. They have no penalty powers or any access to my account. My only responsibilities are to pay my bill and abide by the TOS. How would a player-formed government be able to make me do anything else? I can't see LL handing over suspension or banning tools to players. That would be disasterous.

4. Why do I need a government? To pay taxes so that the rich get richer and poor get poorer? Can they MAKE my neighbor build what I want him to build? Can they make a griefer stop flying by and firebombing builds? Can they do anything without the full cooperation of everyone involved, which will never happen?

5. Power corrupts.

6. A police force and zoning laws would be the only use I could see for a player government, and yet I can't see, nor would i want, a player goverment to have control over either.


Hope this helps. As I said, i'm all for folks experimenting with a "play" goverment, and even have some interest in it, but a goverment with control over the population of SL will never happen, or if it does, would cause many more problems than it solved.

Uh, Chip, read what I said again. I don't want to make you feel bad, but I was pretty sure you were implying that you couldn't imagine government working properly. That it must be despotic and nasty. Perhaps I misunderstood. But, at any rate, I didn't call you stupid. I was asking if YOU were calling everyone ELSE stupid.

I was REALLY hoping you'd shy away from the implied arrogance of your view and give us a chance to think that it MIGHT be possible.

Anyway,. read what I really said. If you care

Seriously, let's just skip all the drama and go straight to the dance off.

square dancing

I'm all for the project government I am involed in...it is only for those that wish to do it.

I am very seriously against any real government in SL that controls the whole grid and I will lead the opposition if it ever came to pass.

I can read, Kathy... between lines even I have great respect for you, your intelligence, and your always entertaining cranky rants... however you are one of the last people I'd want having a measure of control over my creative freedom. It seems that almost without fail the people who most desire player run government, zoning, or similar curbs on freedom have very singular uncompromising visions of the way things should be and tend to be indifferent to opposing points of view. Every time this topic comes up for discussion people are overwhelmingly opposed to the idea and feel that it's unnecessary, yet the proponents keep at it as if that majority point of view is invalid. That doesn't exactly inspire warm fuzzy feelings about the prospect of player government. I'm all for people banding together and forming communties that operate on mutually agreed upon rules above and beyond what's covered by the TOS. Those situations are purely opt-in, as it should be. Should the rules people are expected to conform to and the freedoms they enjoy be alterable by other people simply because they have time and a desire to play at governance? Should the person being negatively affected have less of a say because they'd rather do other things with their time than spend it having to cast their vote against every overzealous proposal put on the floor?

David,

Of course any ultimate POWER comes from the company. Any other idea is jus tmore anti-gov paranoia. The purpose of a player government is to sort out the day-to-day activities, needs, concerns, disputes, and improvements. Of course everything having to do with enforcement has to be finally approved by the company. When did I say otherwise? My model didn’t even give power to a national government. All activity went on in local governments with the national meetings being for consensus, and communication between the locals and the Lindens. Much more efficient than the current method which requires the Lindens to somehow divine our feelings from shouting matches in the forums.

And, yes, there are corrupt RL governments. There are also checks and balances and constitutions. Corruption also rises in proportion to size and budget. Not real concerns under my model.

As for compelling people to co-operate with the government, my model lets the local neighborhoods and Groups – composed only of people with shared interests – determine their own business. They communicate their decisions to the national conference and to the Lindens as needed. No national government will force YOU to do anything. Your neighbors or your Group members might make requirements, but any compulsion would come from LL.

“Power corrupts.” True. But proportionally to the power available. You can avoid almost all of it by keeping power local and having national accountability.

As for the control of the police, remember: the police don’t control themselves. If there are player-police, they would not be independednt. They would be under review and accountable to the Lindens.

This is not a play government proposal. There are needs all over Second Life. Constant griping and complaining. Some folks actually leave because they have little hope that things will improve. I intend for us to make a model that will not interfere with you freedoms, but will provide for the fluid resolution of those problems that should so easily be repaired.

I appreciate the fact that you have actually participated. All I want is for this topic to undergo SERIOUS examination. Thanks for thinking about it.

Too many people think that just by voting against the concept here, they’ve disposed of the problem.

Sounds like a politician to me.

I will have self-government in SL when I get self-government on the web.
SL provides us with tools for the collaborative development, hosting, and commercial exploitation of 3D interactive content. This isn't a game, get real already.
SL was explicitly modeled on the web, and even uses the same back-end software.

Damn. Sure a lot of cowards and lazy people. You guys are starting to bore me now. You carp and whine in so MANY different threads.
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Lol you make me laugh Kathy Yamamoto. You start off your thread as above and expect everyone to listen to what you have to say. I would have thought you were old enough to have read all the original posts on this subject, in which I believe 98 percent said no to resident government.

How dare you try to impose something on the majority of residents in SL who quite obviously don't want it and that includes me. Yes I'm a newbie but so what, I am still entitled to my opinion, which is no to resident government. I have deleted some of what I was going to say because, unlike you, I prefer not to post to anyone, even you, in such an insulting way as your initial post.

Alexa

Well, despite your initial repulsion, I'd like to point out that you and I agree on the model I propose.

If anyone remembers (though how they could through all the shouting that went on at the time) my plan was to have all neighborhoods and Groups over a certain number handle their own local business. There would be a national committee that would meet periodically and hear representative from these groups and hoods. They could present needs and issues and statments that would be discussed, written up, and communicated either up to the Lindens, or down to the other groups, or both. The most the committee could do is to talk about it, reach a consensus (not a vote) and issue a statment of what they thinks might be best (non-compulsory). If something compulsory is needed, then the Lindens would have to make that decision, and then THAT would be passed down to and implimented by the local groups/hoods.

So, it wouldn't be much different from now, except that communication would flow somewhere other than her in the forums, and more than just the loud, or connected people would get their issues heard.

Now who's ass did you pull that one out of?

Kathy,

Up until now I have always admired your postings, but the one that started this thread took my breath away with its arrogance and its determination to offend as many people as possible.

Yes, I'm one of those whiners who oppose self-government, and as you know, it's because I have bloody experienced it.

Your posting is somewhat self-defeating, because the people who would be most pushy and self-promoting when it came to a government would in fact be the people like yourself and the others who have promoted the idea. And your posting makes it very clear what a disaster it would be for everyone if you were in a position of authority.

You are not the only one who is sick of the whole subject. Why, I wonder, do you bring it up again?

No. 90% never had a word to say about it. Only a minority read these forums. even less speak. Even fewer speak when people are being dismissive and not allowing discussion.

the POINT of my model is that 5% of the people should not have 90% of the Lindens' attention. That's exactly what I mean. Just becasue 95% of all the people who jumped in to shout down the idea of government agree it's bad, that doen't mean the topic got talked about.

I intend for everyone to be able to get their issues, points, problems, needs, heard by the Lindens and by the rest of us without having to listen to this Democracy by Calumny.

Now, can you talk about the point? Or just about me?