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Atheists who attack Christianity

Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:04
Whilst your amusement prevents you from responding, I'll take a shot.

Whilst cutting out the middleman (be it the Christian deity- the imaginatively named 'God', Allah, or even our old friend Quetzalcoatl) may take away one of the largest excuses for brutality this species has ever seen, you are then left with the fundamental difficulty of being left with the men on either side of him, who are now free to enter into fisticuffs with little reason to stop other than their own morality.

Whilst I may be a 'devout' Atheist, I've never made the mistake of presuming human nature is predominately 'good'. Perhaps I mis-read your post, if so, forgive and by all means correct me, but I'd point the blame for the majority of this worlds problems at an ugly mammal known as 'man.'
Nina Trenchmouth
Registered User
Join date: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 3
07-23-2006 07:04
Alright so obviously there are more than one religion on this planet and the people who follow them would not unless they believed them to be real. I think it is silly to try to talk someone out of a religion that guides them to be nice to everyone else and live a good life.
If you meet a christian then christianity, for example, it is a real thing and it exists, period. Maybe I am mystical but that is good enough for me
I don't want someone to tell me my dream from last night isn't real
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:07
From: Kevn Klein
That is just too funny to respond to. Your assumptions show your bigotry.

And this shows your ignorance... bigotry as in bigots are defined as someone being intolerant of other people because of their differences in the bigot or the christian. I listed above facts that you are unable to dispute so you do the good christian thing, label me. Typical. And you are from this point on without merit. Maybe a christian on here has something to offer now.

I always give a person to show their true colors and your instance of avoiding the topic and label me made you shine. Ciao to you. No more bandwidth will be wasted on your behalf.
Teren Aridian
Don't Dream It. Be It.
Join date: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 12
07-23-2006 07:07
From: Cirius Montale
Whilst your amusement prevents you from responding, I'll take a shot. Whilst I may be a 'devout' Atheist, I've never made the mistake of presuming human nature is predominately 'good'. Perhaps I mis-read your post, if so, forgive and by all means correct me, but I'd point the blame for the majority of this worlds problems at an ugly mammal known as 'man.'


Whom are you misreading?
Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:09
my apologies, I failed to predict how rapid this thread is moving...I was referring back to Billy's little exposition on the evils of Christianity
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:12
From: Inspector Scissor
I am curious as too how you arrived at that assumption.
I have read the Bible a few times, and haven't really noticed that yet...


Well, three questions;

Will Muslims go to heaven without following the teachings of the judeo christian doctrine?

Will atheists go to heaven without following the teaching of the judeo christian doctrine?

Will Jews go to heaven without following the teaching if the judeo christian doctrine?

By answering no to any of these questions can only mean that christians are arrogant enough to admit they are the only way to some greater good... therefore does not allow for other belief systems to have merit. Answer yes to any of these and I will long for more christians like you.
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:14
From: Cirius Montale
Whilst your amusement prevents you from responding, I'll take a shot.

Whilst cutting out the middleman (be it the Christian deity- the imaginatively named 'God', Allah, or even our old friend Quetzalcoatl) may take away one of the largest excuses for brutality this species has ever seen, you are then left with the fundamental difficulty of being left with the men on either side of him, who are now free to enter into fisticuffs with little reason to stop other than their own morality.

Whilst I may be a 'devout' Atheist, I've never made the mistake of presuming human nature is predominately 'good'. Perhaps I mis-read your post, if so, forgive and by all means correct me, but I'd point the blame for the majority of this worlds problems at an ugly mammal known as 'man.'


Well said and certainly made me rethink my position... Ahhh, able to rethink... hmm... won't go there.

I was pointing out that the good we see in the world can and is done without the veil of a god...

and yes, god is just an excuse for the atrocites commited... but take away all the excuses and you are left with what???
Inspector Scissor
Tho'guth mglew corha gthu
Join date: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 27
07-23-2006 07:18
From: Billy Maradona
Well, three questions;

Will Muslims go to heaven without following the teachings of the judeo christian doctrine?

Will atheists go to heaven without following the teaching of the judeo christian doctrine?

Will Jews go to heaven without following the teaching if the judeo christian doctrine?

By answering no to any of these questions can only mean that christians are arrogant enough to admit they are the only way to some greater good... therefore does not allow for other belief systems to have merit. Answer yes to any of these and I will long for more christians like you.


Too answer those three questions: I would hope so. However, I am not qualified to determine who is fit for Heaven and who will go too Hell, even if I venture guesses from time too time.
I don't think anyone currently manifest on this planet is.
Ultimately, and thankfuly, who goes where in the afterlife is not up too me.
I leave that up too God too decide.
_____________________
"Fair Metanoia is attending, to crowne thee with those joys that know no ending" - William Browne, Britannia's Pastorals, v. I

A Free Radical loose in the Body of Society.
Always ask yourself:" Does it wiggle?"
Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:22
Billy, I demand you and I hold a social experiment in which we teach 5 billion ants about Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Satanism, Mormonism, Moron-ism, and the rules of Cricket, and see if they fight, then try the same thing with a regular pile of 5 billion ants.

Instinct wins in the end. As does the continual stupidity of man. And ant.
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:23
From: Inspector Scissor
Too answer those three questions: I would hope so. However, I am not qualified to determine who is fit for Heaven and who will go too Hell, even if I venture guesses from time too time.
I don't think anyone currently manifest on this planet is.
Ultimately, and thankfuly, who goes where in the afterlife is not up too me.
I leave that up too God too decide.

So then what of christianity... why even bother... rhetorical question... you have not said either way and have answered admirably... I guess I am so used to the christians down south that I don't expect well thought out responses...
Teren Aridian
Don't Dream It. Be It.
Join date: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 12
07-23-2006 07:27
From: Billy Maradona

Will atheists go to heaven without following the teaching of the judeo christian doctrine?


Atheists believe in heaven? Thats news to me. I thought Heaven, Valhalla, and the Elysian Fields were based on the belief of a god or gods/goddesses.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/at_ag_hu.htm
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:28
From: Cirius Montale
Billy, I demand you and I hold a social experiment in which we teach 5 billion ants about Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Satanism, Mormonism, Moron-ism, and the rules of Cricket, and see if they fight, then try the same thing with a regular pile of 5 billion ants.

Instinct wins in the end. As does the continual stupidity of man. And ant.


Interesting... but I like to think (hence my being an atheist) the instinct you speak of is to adbide by the golden rule (not a new christian teaching, by the way) of loving ones neighbor and all that stuff... looking at civilization pre-christianity different cultures, as well as a few that exist today, took care of one another... maybe, just maybe, because it was the right thing to do rather than the right jesus thing to do... just thoughts now about human nature... typing out loud, if you will.
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:31
From: Teren Aridian
Atheists believe in heaven? Thats news to me. I thought Heaven, Valhalla, and the Elysian Fields were based on the belief of a god or gods/goddesses.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/at_ag_hu.htm

No, I don't believe in heaven or hell (I'm even one of the few atheists who don't believe a man named Jesus even walked the earth in that capacity... waiting on evidence... critical thinking part of me always needs evidence)... there was more to the post than just the part you quoted. And the questions were directed to a previous post... I can see where this thread can be difficult to comprehend.
Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:32
Unfortunately, whilst Billy makes a potentially optimistic thought, he'll still find we're stuck with a variety of various deities during the Pre-Christian era, and a great deal of them managed to kick ten types of dogma out of each other over the years.

Perhaps belief is a natural state of affairs for man. A point in favour of the existence of god/God? Perhaps, it would be interesting to ask the ants what they believed before I picked them up...
Inspector Scissor
Tho'guth mglew corha gthu
Join date: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 27
07-23-2006 07:34
From: Billy Maradona
So then what of christianity... why even bother... rhetorical question... you have not said either way and have answered admirably... I guess I am so used to the christians down south that I don't expect well thought out responses...



Well, I should give you fair warning, then:

Buddhism is a Path of Enlightenment.
Islam is a Path of Obedience to God's Law.
Judeaism is a Path of Obedience to God's Word.
Taoism is a Path of Obedience to the Path.
Christanity is a Path of Salvation.
Atheism is a Path I have already walked.

But the reason I choose Christanity is that it holds the Greatest Truth for me, and in it I can not only find Salvation, but also all of the Other Paths, rolled into one. The mystical teachings of the other Faiths have served me well, and I am still learning insight from them, but the greatest insights I find in Christ, his Words, and his Actions.

I am perhaps the least typical Christian you may meet, but I hope not...
_____________________
"Fair Metanoia is attending, to crowne thee with those joys that know no ending" - William Browne, Britannia's Pastorals, v. I

A Free Radical loose in the Body of Society.
Always ask yourself:" Does it wiggle?"
Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
07-23-2006 07:36
From: Billy Maradona
.....
Will atheists go to heaven without following the teaching of the judeo christian doctrine?.....

Atheists wouldn't be interested in a Christian heaven.

In fact, I doubt any non-Christian would want to go to a Christian heaven.
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:37
From: Cirius Montale
Unfortunately, whilst Billy makes a potentially optimistic thought, he'll still find we're stuck with a variety of various deities during the Pre-Christian era, and a great deal of them managed to kick ten types of dogma out of each other over the years.
Once again, the excuse comes into play... take away the excuses and maybe then we are left with having to face right and wrong defined by human nature not dogma.

And careful of the ants...
Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:39
I'll take Valhalla, if the option's there.

in Inspector I am happy to find a self-proclaimed Christian who is happy to look to other religions for inspiration and lessons on life. Whilst his argument is a little too based in personal experience for me to presume full understanding of it, I sincerely hope he doesn't miss out Athiesm as one of those religions he looks at.

And on another note, 1 person has just logged into the grid; time may be almost up.
Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:41
And good point Billy, I've just validated your argument.

My point was, to find a society without some people who hold a belief will be an nigh-on impossible task. Looks like we're stuck with it.
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:42
From: Inspector Scissor
Well, I should give you fair warning, then:

Buddhism is a Path of Enlightenment.
Islam is a Path of Obedience to God's Law.
Judeaism is a Path of Obedience to God's Word.
Taoism is a Path of Obedience to the Path.
Christanity is a Path of Salvation.
Atheism is a Path I have already walked.

But the reason I choose Christanity is that it holds the Greatest Truth for me, and in it I can not only find Salvation, but also all of the Other Paths, rolled into one. The mystical teachings of the other Faiths have served me well, and I am still learning insight from them, but the greatest insights I find in Christ, his Words, and his Actions.

I am perhaps the least typical Christian you may meet, but I hope not...


Well, the paths you speak of are just that, places for one to walk in their own shoes... if christianity allowed for that, then I would have no problems with it but sadly, chrisitanity has to prostyletize to just meet the requirements of their christs words and actions... hence my problem... keep it to themselves and a happy day we would find... keep trying to impose it on others and well, a true christian is born... I hope to meet more christians like you... don't respect what you believe but I certainly respect the right of anyone to believe what they will...
Billy Maradona
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
07-23-2006 07:43
From: Cirius Montale
And good point Billy, I've just validated your argument.

My point was, to find a society without some people who hold a belief will be an nigh-on impossible task. Looks like we're stuck with it.

but what a Utopian thought... *sigh*
Teren Aridian
Don't Dream It. Be It.
Join date: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 12
07-23-2006 07:45
From: Kevn Klein
Atheists wouldn't be interested in a Christian heaven.

In fact, I doubt any non-Christian would want to go to a Christian heaven.



Personally I think Heaven is a multi-denomenational place. ::shrugs::
Cirius Montale
Don't Mess With The Bot
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 28
07-23-2006 07:45
Perhaps focusing the need for belief is the answer.
I hereby create a new religion. Montalism.

My 1 commandment.

You must believe I exist.
Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
07-23-2006 07:45
From: Billy Maradona
Well, the paths you speak of are just that, places for one to walk in their own shoes... if christianity allowed for that, then I would have no problems with it but sadly, chrisitanity has to prostyletize to just meet the requirements of their christs words and actions... hence my problem... keep it to themselves and a happy day we would find... keep trying to impose it on others and well, a true christian is born... I hope to meet more christians like you... don't respect what you believe but I certainly respect the right of anyone to believe what they will...

Please, show the the Bible verses where Jesus insists Christians bash people into submission. Jesus was very clear, He said if they reject the "Good News" wipe the dust from your feet and move on to another town.
Inspector Scissor
Tho'guth mglew corha gthu
Join date: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 27
07-23-2006 07:45
From: Cirius Montale

in Inspector I am happy to find a self-proclaimed Christian who is happy to look to other religions for inspiration and lessons on life. Whilst his argument is a little too based in personal experience for me to presume full understanding of it, I sincerely hope he doesn't miss out Athiesm as one of those religions he looks at.


Heh heh, C.S. Lewis was an Atheist long before he was a Christian.
Anyway, personal experince is the thing I know best, followed by History, Art, Philosophy, Penguins, Archaic Weapons, etc. etc.
Sometimes, personal experince is what we have, either your own, or that of others.


Oh oh!

EDIT: Imposing Christian beliefs on others invalidates those beliefs. A person is free to come too God, and free to walk away from God, as that is how *God ordained it.
Free Will, and all that.

* that's what I believe, at any rate, as well as John Wesley, and a few other Theologians.
_____________________
"Fair Metanoia is attending, to crowne thee with those joys that know no ending" - William Browne, Britannia's Pastorals, v. I

A Free Radical loose in the Body of Society.
Always ask yourself:" Does it wiggle?"
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