Two US soldiers tortured to death, where is the outrage from the left now????

Sera Galbraith 2008.

That is all.

Thanks.

Your argument is that otherwise reasonable people turn to this behavior because of their environment and coercion from people they trust. And that we should understand, perhaps even graciously accept that.

What would you do if you were a poor italian or vietnamese youth who had no prospect of getting a decent job, were harrassed and discriminated against because of your nationality, and the neighborhood leaders told you that the only way out was to join the organization? In fact, the world owes it to you.

You can understand that, can't you. Why not have pity on the kid who shoots up a liquor store because they don't pay the protection money? Why not let the kid slide when he beats up a hooker who isn't earning?

And those school kids who are getting picked on by the jocks? Isn't it understandable that they would shoot up the school and take their own lives after being subjected to so much humiliation and persecution? It's almost heroic, when you think about it. That will teach bullies at other schools to pick on the goths, nerds, et al.

And if you were sexually abused as a child, socially maladjusted and dismissed rudely by every woman you chatted up? How bad would it be to fondle just one little boy or girl? If you'd gone through what they went through would you act any different?

Just like the poor Iraqi kid who has little choice but to strap a bomb to himself and blow up a queue of pensioners, or applicants for a job in law enforcement.

No, that is not my argument. I'm telling you why they do it. I'm telling you why they won't stop. It isn't about 'right' or 'wrong' or 'moral' or 'immoral'. It's about a simple pragmatic fact:

Our soldiers and their people will not stop dying by the thousands unless we leave. Period.

The fact that you like to keep throwing emotions into the mix is vaguely irritating, as if it implies that some sort of altruism on my part is the reason I support withdrawl. As if little angels with happy bunnies and cavorting fuzzy kittens were fluttering around me saying, "If everyone was nice, we'd all be happy!"

Bullshit.

Americans will die in Iraq until we leave. Iraqis will die in Iraq until we leave. They'll probably die after we leave, too, but in far fewer numbers and with the responsibility on their own heads. We are not improving the situation. We are not saving anyones lives.

Thickheaded devotion to a failed objective just makes the situation worse.

Edited to add: Understanding what you are doing and who you are fighting is the simplest, most logical, and most effective way to get what you want.

why would I avoid that? I'm proud I have nothing but complaints.

Of course it is --we're doing it in the USA now as well.

your happy about being unhappy?

your proud of being unhappy?

your proud of being unhappy?

Look mate, nominally I'm on your side in this issue, I hate that the liberal mind on this issue is fairly set against its own people. Not much can be done about that.

But.... your interpretation of the Koran is wrong, in that very same passage it says you should strive for peace first and only use force when needed.

Surprize, the Koran is filled with just as many inconsistancies and discrepancy as the bible. And yeah I've read it. And no you don't know what your talking about.

The very passage that STATES they should attack infedels is always "Short quoted" i.e. people take out the part they need to justify their actions while cutting out the part of the sentance that doesn't suit their needs. Bin Laden is just michael moore with an uglier beard and explosives.

I'm quite happy. Thankyou.

I'm proud that I'm not the type of person that swallows whatever shit someone wishes to shove down my mouth.

I was just teasing you, calm down. don't get your panties in a wad.

and again. you attribute an emotion to me that I don't have over this--and now with extra sexism!

kudos!

you went with the foul language. which to me indicates emotion because a rational person comes up with more sophisticated words instead of resorting to four letter ones to try and get a false point across.

As I'm being fair about not elipsising out any part of the quote, I will also give the context. This is post Gulf War analysis, before the current administration. I think if the current president was capable of reading, or at least had the good sense to listen to his father (or the senate, or numerous intelligence advisors), we would not be where we are today.

I'm from Brooklyn.

and your point being?

http://www.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_national/article/0,2564,ALBQ_19860_4793859,00.html

In a face to face conversation, swearing is normal in cities (a general part of language). I once heard a conversation in Philly that contained more curses than information. Neither person was mad at each other though. I imagine they'd have pulled guns or knives if they had some sort of dispute.

I live outside Atlanta, I still think it's use is an emotional response

Ah, well that explains a lot. It still doesn't make it an emotional response. People use "shit" instead of "thing" or "garbage". "Fuck" also has numerous acceptable uses.

how sad

Oh really? Explain the sadness of it for us. Particularly, I'd suggest examining the evolution of American English from Old English and explaining to us which parts are particularly 'sad' in relation to others and why. And if you don't want to go to that effort, you probably shouldn't be criticizing anyone else's choice of speech.

I thought Atlanta was an airport

Get over yourself

Yeah, about that...The left wants us out of Iraq and wants us focused on the terrorists who do the torturing. Whoops, there goes your whole point.

Where is Bin Laden? Last I heard, Bush didn't care. I can't see him caring much about the others...how many #2 guys have we killed now? atleast 3 or 4. How many terrorists were in Iraq before we got there? A lot less than there are now.