Two US soldiers tortured to death, where is the outrage from the left now????

So that wasn't your secret plan? I'm still waiting for your solution to the ongoing suffering of the majority of Iraqis under Saddam.

Who am I kidding? I don't expect to get a coherent answer from you on this. Chip is an order of magnitude more rational than you are and he still won't answer the question on what we should have done.

But everyone knows exactly what we shouldn't have done.

We shouldn't have done anything. If we'd kept our noses out of the middle east Saddam wouldn't have been in power in the first place. What makes you think this is going to turn out any better? How many countries do we have to screw up before we learn that lesson? I don't pay taxes to build infrastructure in the middle east while ours crumbles. I don't pay to bring democracy to the middle east while ours is being eroded. Call me selfish but I pay taxes to improve the lives of citizens in this country.

Where is our moral highground? We talk about torture and rape rooms as justification while we torture people and have the highest percentage of our population in prison of any civilized nation, most of whom are there because of religious dark age drug laws. Guess what, a lot of them get raped in prison.

We should have done nothing but provide humanitarian aid. As long as we elevate ourselves above the rest of the world and believe we're somehow suprior and we can do whatever the hell we want no matter how the rest of the world feels about it then we don't even have the first clue about what democracy or humility mean, and we're not in the position to tell anyone else what to do or how to live.

ok several things,
1. who the hell is Chalabi
2. you do realize Saddom executed those who voted against him in the elections every year right?
3. We thought he would be helpful in freeing our hostages held in Iran.
4. We also thought he would be a stabilizing factor in the Middle East


whats the matter run out of "but......" statements for this topic? He was already trading Iraqi oil, to places like China. How do you think he funded his palace construction projects and his secret police.


We had sanctions on Iraq for almost everything except for food/medical supplies/etc. and Saddom still refused to cooperate with the UN.

You know what the Ironic part of all this is, Osama got really mad at the Saudi Royal family because they asked us to help during the Persian Gulf War, and not his Mujahadeen fighters from Afghanistan.

ok several things,
1. who the hell is Chalabi
2. you do realize Saddom executed those who voted against him in the elections every year right?
3. We thought he would be helpful in freeing our hostages held in Iran.
4. We also thought he would be a stabilizing factor in the Middle East


whats the matter run out of "but......" statements for this topic? He was already trading Iraqi oil, to places like China. How do you think he funded his palace construction projects and his secret police.


We had sanctions on Iraq for almost everything except for food/medical supplies/etc. and Saddom still refused to cooperate with the UN.

You know what the ironic part of all this is, Osama got really mad at the Saudi Royal family because they asked us to help during the Persian Gulf War, and not his Mujahadeen fighters from Afghanistan.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. How many Iraqis would die under a few more years of sanctions, how many in the civil and religious wars once Saddam was assasinated, and what would be left after all that? Either another brutal dictatorship or an Islamic fundamentalist nation. And the oil infrastructure would be totally broken, thus depriving the remaining Iraqis of the chance to pull themselves out of poverty and ignorance.

But those 2500 American soldiers? Yeah, the vast majority of them would still be alive.

Good plan.

Iraqi expatriot and head of the so-called "Iraqi National Congress" otherwise known as "Curveball," the source of most of the bullshit evidence presented by Powell to the UN.

Ask your fucking President what the solution is. For that matter --ask him what the fucking mission is.

your the one who claimed to have a solution, yet never posted anything resembling a solution.

You think it's gonna be less lives lost Bush's way?

OMG --I'm gonna die of laughter. You're funnier than the original Groucho.

If we hadn't, your native language might be Russian. If we werent' all glowy protoplasm by now. So you can't even say it was a bad decision. It's just a decision that ran its course.

I am a nationalist and a patriot in the purest sense. The country must look out for its own needs before it can have any hand in curing the needs of others. If we were Utopia, we'd have a leg to stand on, but as it is any "freedom" mission is really just a land and resource grab. And even then, our idea of Utopia is probably diferent from theirs as we still need to keep to ourselves with our morality. For them, if what we thing is wrong is morally right, and what we thing is right is abhorrant, who are we to say otherwise?

That is why Iraqis are writing thier constitution and their laws, they are doing everything they can.

I never said I had a solution. I said there are many other ways of achieving a regime change without misusing our military as an occupying army.

The USA has done it many times to many nations all over the globe.

What do you think the CIA does anyways?

They aren't secret. They aren't magic. They just aren't preferred by the War Machine.

I'd love to hear you come up with a better one than we utilized.

My favorite country is the USA. It's why I'm fighting for it to return to sanity.

I took out that snide remark, sorry feeling grouchy today (pun intended)

Clinton already had. Too bad it wasn't followed.

http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast/libera.htm

yeah it says to get the Iraqi resistance to do the dirty work, now there is one problem, they tried over and over and never could, IE after Desert Storm. Also curious, that was during the Impeachment proceedings. Oh another ironic thing about that law, it was written by Republicans.

you just love those big bombs dontcha? Make ya feel like a real man.

real man? and to think I took out my comment about you being a commie. Now as for me being a "real man". I have 2 wonderful sons that prove I'm a real man.

Do we? I know I don't but I'm sure glad you're here to make these sweeping generalisations for us.



Er, nope didn't say this was ok was either.



And I think this is a no for me as well.

So the goal was to turn Iraq from a secularist dictatorship that we supported , to a fundimentalist islamo-fascist theocracy ?

smooth move.

wow you are in desperate need a of clue

Congrats on the two boys.

(I've nothing snide to add --I always congratulate proud parents)

thank you

Not really. Looks like fascism in the making to me, too.