Two US soldiers tortured to death, where is the outrage from the left now????

you may mean casualty which has been twisted to mean deaths, it really means wounded+Kia+MIA. as for the warehouses, they would be hangars since the Air Force handles this task, and there would have been far more outcrys. oh and hear say is not fact, now would you not agree that the US military has come along way from the Vietnam era, in terms of capability and training etc.

since the obvious answer is yes, your saying that in 3 years of fighting in Iraq, we have almost equaled the entire death+MIA count from Vietnam? don't believe me, check this out

http://sc94.ameslab.gov/TOUR/vetmem.html

But, Magnum... You told me that the Judiciary Act of 1791 said that the supreme court made legaly binding descisions!

You also told me that people weren't qualified to judge what the Supreme Court did, but your doing that right now.

As for that number, you're looking at the "casualties" column of antiwar.com - but even they dont place the death number that high. Not by a longshot. Casualties != dead.

Serously! I am SO very proud of them.They did a job in my opinion that HAD to be done.However,we kicked ass,won hands down and pretty much OWN two countries.In MY humble opinion we have proved our point.Let get those folks home eating dinner at thier house and raising their little men and woman in the safty of thier own land>
My Humble opinon\
Justice

Look --this happy family is rushing home to a lovely dinner right now!

Why do you take a post agreeing with your opinion and post that pic? what is the point? oh yeah I forgot, you don't like anything

Not true. I like PEACE...and I don't think we've done a "good job" in Iraq.

I think we've fucked it up for generations. Once we get our troops home, we had better invest some of that money we're pumping into Dick Cheney's Ass and start aiding the Iraqi people in rebuilding the country we destroyed.

Maybe in 50 years the rest of the world will forgive us.

There is no doubt that every mistake, every scandal, and every "innocent" life lost hurts us. Which is why we have struggled to minimize those problems more than any country ever has during such an operation.

But the countries that criticize us are usually no better and are often far worse. Is it fair to be judged by them? Certainly not. This is a political game and every politician or foreign leader tries to use our every misstep to his own advantage.

We could go to ever greater lengths to minimize their criticism, but what price are you willing to pay for that? Another 1000 Americans dead? Another 100 billion dollars? Another year in Iraq?


Cleaning up Afghanistan by itself would have only been a temporary setback for terrorism. Our good will from 9/11 would lasted longer, but it would have faded away slowly, good will doesn't last nearly as long as ill will.

Going into Iraq was a gamble and had the potential to clean up the huge festering problem there that would at the very least be a thorn in our side and most probably would have blown up spectaculary in the next 20 years. It also had the potential to change the political landscape in the mideast and create peaceful, free democratic nations 10, 20 or 50 years earlier than they would have if we'd just stood by.

you have absolutely no data to back up any of this.

I was in the U.S. Army Infantry. I was in only one unit for my four year contract after trying to become non-infantry in an opportunity made available in Infantry Basic Training just after the twin tower bombing.I was in basic during the bombing. I failed the training after a year, and I was stuck on worldwide assignment for an abnormal 11 months. I don't want to give any more specific details, because I don't want to make it easy for people to know who I am. I'm not just paranoid; I hate most people in my former unit. I was hated by the leadership as well, but not because of my performance, because of my lip. My performance is probably the only thing that kept me from getting in as much trouble as I should have.

You sound just like the stupid officers that thought speeches about running away from your problems and being a coward stop people from killing themselves. Suicide was not cowardice. Death is meaningless. You learn that when you see how little trouble those not moving anymore have. They may be all bloated and look nasty, but their brain is not on anymore, so why do they care. Most of the suicides that we had were in garrison and not deployment. The first one I saw was a kid who hung himself from a metal pipe in the tall suspended ceiling we had with his issued black belt. We were all suprised that the buckle and pipe held. I never saw the belt, but I wonder if it was superglued or something, because my buckle always came off easy. Most people liked to throw themselves off the third floor. I'm not sure why though, because half that did this lived. All the wrist cutters survived. I'm suprised how long it takes them to get any decent blood flow from the wrist. Even the kid that cut his tendons made it to the ER in time. I think most of them wanted to be caught cutting their wrists though. Everyone knew the psych ward was a nice vacation. Only one died by grenade. He tried to kill the Captain in trench training, but somehow the Captain made it to safety. The kid tripped in the trench they were running the exercise in, and never got close enough to the Captain to kill him. Alot of guys were injured, but the kid being in the trench saved anyone else from being killed. Suprisingly no one shot themselves, though I am suspicious of some of the friendly fire incidents where people shot other soldiers, because they always seemed to involved ecspecially hated people.

The AWOL's were brave too. They were willing to be thrown in jail for doing the right thing and leaving behind the bull in our unit. It may not seem like the right thing to you, but I hate the fact that I might have helped other people in my unit survive. The officers always gave stupid speeches that others in our unit depended on us. I don't feel happy when other soldier's die, but I would of actually been happy if more in my unit died. The worst kick in the stomach that we learned in the end is that everyone that went AWOL was kicked out of the military with a less than honorable discharge. Even the guy that missed movement. We all came back out of fear of jail, and then we learn jail wasn't even the punishment.

Everyone of us that didn't want to be there but stayed were the cowards. I didn't know about all the atrocities America had done to screw up the world when I was in the Army, but after I have gotten out and researched why the world is pissed at us, I am even more sick that I carried on this horrible tradition of screwing up the world through the U.S. military. I am one of the people who have made a contriubution to making the world a worse place. I'm one of the cowards that let something like jail scare me from doing what would of been right. I should of had the guts to just leave. I hate myself for that.

BTW, Kendra had a plan to turn Iraq into a free democratic nation without sending in our troops and without starting a civil war. But apparently our nation's leaders were out playing golf that day and never got a chance to hear her unique strategy.

Yes, and this strategy has worked out so amazingly well. Thank god for golf.

Hmmm Kendra Im honestly not going to get into to much of a debate with you on this as i was not intending on going against anyones opinion.I mearly stating my own.Had we left Saddam in power then we would have TRULY "fucked" it for genrataions as you so eloquently put it.I agree ugly terrible things have happened.However they have happend from BOTH sides! It is a war mam. And war unfortunatly come with some of these thing that we HATE to see happen to humanity.However if one looks at the bigger picture at hand what we have accomplished was takin a leader of a country and a large army out,that had full intentions of doing so to us the excact second he got the capibility.And as far a afghanistan?They hit us pretty damn hard. And killed many of MY brothers and sisters.We damn sure wouldnt be doing our job as americans if we did NOT address that situation in FULL.If in fact we would have remained ide on these isue then we would have left ourselves open for the enemy to have as much time as needed to carry out whatever plan they would like to kill MORE of our brothers and sisters.You tell me kendra mam.How many more of us had to die before we put our foot down.My number was 1.Yes 1 damnint!Now let me remind you,NEITHER one of us is right or wrong kendra mam.We are both mearly posting our views on a message board for second life.
My Humble Opinion.
Justice

We are already pumping money into Iraq to rebuild it. Now tell me this, do you honestly think removing Saddom from power is a bad thing? I asked you earlier to explain your steps to remove him without troops, and you ignored the post, which makes me think you are unable to back up your claims. Now I do not agree with some of Bush's policies, however I voted for him, because he was the lesser of 2 evils. What I do like about him and dispised about Clinton, Bush backs up what he says he's going to do. You do know Clinton said after each previous Al Qada attack that he was going to go after those responsible, yet never did. After 9/11, Bush said he was going after those responsible, and DID. He didn't weasel out, hoping the next administration would handle the problem. Now this may seem calous and ignorant, but I don't care, I am glad he invaded Iraq because now "they" (extremists) are killing each other instead of US citizens. What I think will happen now, the average, law abiding Islamic citizen will get fed up with the killing, and go after the extemists who hide behind their religion.

Now people say this is an illegal war. I ask this one question, What war was legal? I can't think of a war in the past 200 years that has actually been legal, because war in and of itself is illegal, no matter who provokes who.

GO AMERICA, GO HURRICANES,GO GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our Humble Opinion.
Justice and family! LOL

They pretty much dehumanize themselves when they cut off people's heads and film it as a recruiting video, dontcha think?

Very fuzzy (psycho)analysis there, Warda and a gross distortion of the facts and the words of the post you quoted.

The "animals" in question are those who actually carried out these horrific acts and to a lesser extent those who condone them. The "we" you speak of did not commit any atrocities (that I know of) and we have not condoned them.

Make a comparison between the terrorists and the handful of out-of-control coalition soldiers if you like. But don't attempt to humanize (and thus sympathize with) the terrorists by such ridiculous comparisons.

Save your pitiable rhetoric for those who choose to classify all Iraqis or all muslims as animals.

If you're going to be condescending, please at least get your facts straight.

Ok, since some people have a real hard time reading what was actually written I have to respond to some of this utter BS.


Nice one Kendra, apathetic and tired… I guess I also said that the easter bunny is real and that the tooth fairy visits my house regularly. WTF is up with crap like this? Listen close people… DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH… IF I DIDN’T SAY SOMETHING DO NOT GO MAKE SHIT UP TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS.


And you go back enjoying your ignorance.


You really CAN’T be so stupid to believe that utter crap you just wrote? It isn’t remotely possible is it???

For the sake of argument, and to be very clear… please point out to everyone where I said that the other deaths, American or not, don’t matter or that I don’t care as much about them. Show us all that or shut the hell up and QUIT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH???

Go ahead???

Still waiting???

I am astounded at your complete lack of knowledge… Jessica Hanks… and let me say this clearly so even you can understand… JESICA HANKS WAS NEEEEEEVER RELEASED… American forces found and freed her. Another nice example of completely making shit up to suit your own arguments. Facts seem to not matter.


Now you know what I am thinking??? Obviously NOT. To even insinuate that I even remotely said that is one of the most moronic, ignorant things I have ever read. Everyone reading this knows that the reason people come after me is for one reason… intolerance of anything or anyone that is a Christian Conservative Republican.

For the record, yes I believe that the Koran is garbage but I am not in any way, shape or form intolerant of Muslims. They are free to worship as that see fit and I am just as free to disagree with what their religion stands for. I have no issue with them at all… unless they have a bomb strapped to their waist that is. There are many really good people who are Muslims, that does not mean I have to agree or be apathetic about what their religious doctrine teaches.


What is disgusting is being a whiny bitch about any time American Soldiers screw up and hardly saying a word when our boys are TORTURED TO DEATH and blaming America, not the animals who did this. That is what is disgusting.


Once again, to be very clear… NO, I DO NOT CONDONE TORTURING ANYONE. What I am saying is for the liberal left to give these animals the same treatment as that would give them if they were in an American uniform. This thread makes it painfully obvious that is asking too much for some of you.


Get a grip… I mean… really get a grip. You have completely lost the ability to read a simply point without tossing up red hearings.

Oh, btw… who is killing most of those Muslims anyway? The terrorists, that is who. They have killed waaaay more of their countrymen than we ever will. Most of their attacks kill their own, not American Soldiers.



That is all I have time for now… carry on with your lynching and turn a blind eye to the issue at hand.


.

Coming from the guy who stated in another thread that there are statistics out there that prove the better looking you are the less intelligent you are this post is priceless!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/21/hamdaniya/index.html

So, since everyone is talking about "outrage" who's outraged that 7 Marines and a MEDIC took a disbabled old Iraqi and shot him and then planted a gun and shovel to make it appear as if he was an insurgent? Even though this is now in the military justice system, just keep in mind that this old man had brothers, sisters, sibling who all now hate us even more.

War is wrong period. Doesn't matter who dies all life is precious.


(and just think, I used to be a conservative, then I woke up!) *grins*

Outrage? Why should I be outraged? Do you get outraged at a rattlesnake if it bites you? No That's what rattlers do by the same logic why should I get outraged if a terrorist tortures? Thats what they do. And the solution to rattlers and terrorists is the same. Extermination. Outrage is expected when someone behaves in an evil way against their character or professed character not when evil men behave as is expected of evil men.

That being said. If you think the bible doesn't spout death and destruction for unbelievers like the quaran your pretty ignorant.

This demonstrates your lack of integrity and a total unwillingness to carry on a fair and open discussion.

What I said was "there are statistical correlations between appearance and intelligence". And you somehow convert that it into my being able to determine an individual's IQ from how beautiful they are.

To claim my very modest assertion is false is ridiculously stupid. You must be very pretty, indeed.

I call them human beause they are human. Humanity, in general, are quite nasty creatures,m and it is not through any misguided attempt to paint them as nice that I call them human. I call them human because I can see that almost any human has the capacity to do such "inhuman" acts when the right buttons are pushed.

THere's a difference between "outraged" and "galvanized into supporting the wholesale slaughter and torture of detainees and wholesale genocide".


I'm outraged, yes. Not at an entire culture, nor that the culture's value system includes these sorts of methods on their prisoners. That's up to that culture, not me. What I'm outraged with is the fact that these lives are being thrown down the toilet for no reason beyond Republican greedy politics. Being intentionally tortured and killed, or being slaughtered in battle, you're just as dead either way.

This sort of thing should be galvanizing people to oppose the regime that we, as Americans, are currently *subject* to, not support that autocracy and the decisions it has made that lead to this conclusion!

**off topic**

maybe he wants to think that all the blonde bimbo's are intelligent enough to carry on a conversation.