Complaints About Dwell/Money Chairs

While reading the threads concerning the economy, the weekly distribution of "allowance" from Mommy and Daddy Linden, and the god-awful-dwelloper's rewards, several points were made that need to be pulled out separately and discussed by the successful content creators within SL.

While many of you are quick to put down the "money chair" payments and the weekly allowance, I'm going to ask you a simple question.

How many of you have put that money that you have earned back into the SL economy? What percentage do you contribute to the SL "payroll" of those who do want to earn a living in SL?

Or does the vast majority of you simply run to the Lindex at the end of the month and cash out your earnings into USD?

When was the last time you hired someone to landscape and spruce up your store locations?

When was the last time that you updated your vendors, security scripts, and/or hired someone to help manage your store?

While earning a good amount of USD from SL, while complaining loudly about the "free money system" and how it's wrong -- what have you done, what has your business done to help the social and economic value of individuals within SL?

SL has said before that they are looking for the SL'ians to create the content and help the economy grow -- but that growth isn't going to occur if the money you earn is constantly taken out and not one Linden $ put back into circulation in the form of payroll or project payment.

While everyone is complaining about the free weekly allowance given to SL'ians, sit back and ask yourself, "As a responsible business owner in SL, am I contributing to the successful economy of SL by helping to create new jobs within SL?"

I could see many of you complaining if SL proposed a business tax on your earnings and that money went to the weekly "allowance" -- that would make complete sense and you would have every right to complain and bemoan about the welfare system within SL.

But how can you sit and complain and insult individuals who are social, many who are newbies and many who have said that they *want* to find a job within SL - when part of the crumbling and failure of the economic system (as you see it) is that there are not enough "paying jobs" within SL.

When was the last time you paid someone to write a new advertisement for your company? When was the last time you hired a new model for your automobile or clothing line?

In other words, instead of the "socialites" being the problem with the economy, could your lack of job creation also be causing a large part of the problem?

How is this fun? Is hirring someone to update my vendors going to make them stay in SL? I doubt it.

For the record, I am not against newbies making some easy money. As long as it's fun and engaging. Sitting in a chair can't be all that fun.

At least people enjoyed Slingo and Tringo.

It's simply giving a newbie a chance. If you don't give them a chance to earn the money doing some job on your SL payroll... what else are they supposed to do to make money?

Not everyone can be a creator within SL. It takes a long time to get up to the building/creative speed of many here. It doesn't happen overnight.

But even while giving them that small project or small business opportunity -- you are socially interacting with them, letting them know that they are valued... It doesn't mean you have to pay them with Lindens (which most would probably turn around and spend in your store anyway... so it's really like getting work for free...)

If we're going to retain all types of individuals in SL, businesses are going to have to start giving back to the community instead of taking everything they earn out of it.

This is EXACTLY my point. There should be something else. Money chairs are not the solution. They are dead boring.




If your idea of giving back to the community means handing them a broom, I have to disagree. I'm pretty sure people log in for SL for fun as opposed to a minimum wage, crappy job.

Back in beta, we used to barter when we didn't have the money. It worked perfectly for awhile. We were all under stress to meet those land tax fees. Especially those of us who were not creative.

Think outside the box of just "chores" -- think about hiring someone for your stores, just to meet, greet, be friendly and maybe offer an opinion on whether or not "this dress makes my ass look fat..."

Take on an apprentice... You can't pay them much, but you can show them some extra tips/tricks in scripting etc.

But businesses in SL can't continue to suck money out of the game without helping to create some kind of jobs.

Think outside the box.

But start to think about putting some Linden's back into the economy for the newbies who want to earn some money and learn about SL.

If not, it's moneychairs for life.

I'm convinced now there are many lateral things that get missed on the SL Forums, but that's okeydoke, because keening (in the mortuary sense too) is an intuition for the oblique!

On the topic of money chairs, I've sat in them frequently. It's nice to make a few L$ for texture uploads and other thrifty little things yes. Beyond this, it also teaches me the value of humility (like a monk... see SL Koans for more background on this). And then my IM window tends to get awfully busy. So I'd like to thank the peeps who set up the money chairs!

Too often, and redundantly at that, the meagre (spelled more like "Emigre" for influential reasons) L$ is pointed to centrally and squarely. That in itself is correct, but the roots of the tree, the forks of the lightning bolt are not framed within the same picture. What is a Mona Lisa without a mouth, I ask you?

So in comes communication.

I continue to sit in money chairs while making special requests to my talented friends on here. And I am very grateful.

I'm thinking jobs aren't going to cut it. And frankly i don't know what will. SL probably needs about another 300 different Tringo type games - entertaining activities that can give you a few bucks.

I'm saving up for 1yr premium with my in-world money. That isn't putting it right back into the SL economy, but it is at least putting it back into SL itself.

LOL I have tried many times to hire people to host events etc, It doesnt work... People want to make money to do nothing.. we once had a staff of over 25 people 20 of them being "dancers" and 5 of them being hosts at a higher rate... dancers, all you had to do was stand around and dance and greet people, we made it mandatory that everyone must be greeted etc, they left the jobs we gave them to go sit it in camping chairs, or to go places to dance where all they had to do was be there, and they can go afk or whatever.
Hosts... well they lasted a little bit longer but still it is hard to find someone that is willing to actually do something for $L. We were paying $250 an event, and $25 an hour plus tips to dancers. At one point I even had someone come to me and say, you expect me to work for 25 cents USD an event? This person wanted USD minimum wage... Get real!
If you know newbies or oldbies that need money, I will put them to WORK! I have no problem with that!

By coming up with a unique thing to sell. Like I did. Or by working hard in RL and exchanging the resulting money for L$.

Like I did.



Nope, sure doesn't happen overnight. Took me about six months. Took me about a year to reach a stage of skill development I was really happy withl, but even now I know I'm lacking.



The community gets entertainment and utility out of SL businesses. The community gets stuff that it could not or would not make on its own, the businesses get rewarded for providing novelty and utility. If the businesses went away, there'd be no fun stuff. If the customers went away, there'd be no market. Everyone is doing their part. I don't see what that has to do with the money chairs, unless you'd like to preach entitlement (feel free to do so).

Does the upload fee for textures/sounds/animations fall into this in anyway when it comes back to feeding the SL economy though? I don't really think I found an answer to what happens to that cash after you paid to upload anything. The reason I ask is because while I don't pay people directly, I can easily drop $200L in texture uploads in 2 mins flat (pending they are all ready to be uploaded) I can easily follow that with an additional $100L because in my idiotness, I messed up an alpha texture and it has the white lines around an otherwise black texture (I hate managing layers!) and I have to follow up and upload fixed textures for the set I had already uploaded. While at any one moment this doesn't seem much, but I can blow entire stipends on uploads and I believe in re-investing my money into the business. I have never cashed out but most of it either goes back into updating my current builds, getting more development work on a current build or just because I saw another cool avatar/plane I want to buy and sometimes giving some money to friend to buy something when they lack the cash or to a newbie so that they can take a few snapshots as I show them around SL.

Do the uploads factor into what you are asking since I am not cashing out, but I don't really know where the money goes after the upload fee is paid?

No doubt Enabram you have found your niche in SL. How about the slew of people who don't want to create and sell?

I know, you can socialize and explore.. the novelty of that only lasts for so long though.

I never expected to have a business in SL. I was content to purchase L$ with US$ I had made in reality. I don't see the problem with that expectation. Nor did I see it then, given that I was getting hours of fun from others' work.

I'm not sure what your point is about socializing and exploring. Do you want a petting zoo?

Is it an evil petting zoo?

ok,ok sorry. I saw that movie the other day and couldn't resist.

Edited:to fix spelling and I wanted to drop a plug in and say happy birthday Enabran

The point is many people are here to have fun and many say, "If I want to run a business I will do it in the REAL world"

Dude, I don't want a petting zoo.

Sorry, I know I'm getting behind in providing for other people, beyond the $195 a month I pay LL to help keep SL open, the questions I answer in the forums, the free tools I provide, and the hundreds of hours I've put in to developing compelling content. It's not easy to put in tens of hours a week on top of a RL career and still find time to ladle soup at the shelter too, but I promise I'll try and do better!

Well, no one is pointing fingers Chip and sadly I think the point I was trying to make is lost on several people here. It's not about charity. It's about retaining people.

I will respond to you in your own words, my dear Magdum.

While I do find money trees/chairs a great thing for those users whom donot have the means to make money in this game . I find it rather sad that there is no other way other than being a scripter/builder blah blah blah to make money. Since I have come back and sat in the WA the majority of the questions I have seen asked by newer players is "how do I make money in this game". You tell them certain ways to make money and some find it hard to really get the creative juices flowing.

As it is , I see nothing wrong with how we get weekly moneys.

If I am on a free account all I will get is mere 200L$ a month ,that adds up to about .70$ USD .So I see no point in complaining about the money we get each week. Even if all you had was a prem account and got the weekly allowance you still even out for your membership.


For the basic account noobie it can be hard starting up a business unless you do meet some nice people to help you get up on your feet(or buy the L$).

Really there should be little side jobs noobies could do to make money. And keep the damn chairs/trees!

but that's just my 2 cents

I agree with you about that being a problem. We just disagree on the solution. Personally I'd go for just adding an orientation before the orientation, that explains exactly what SL is and what they have a right to expect for their subscription level, with quiz questions throughout to make sure people actually read and understand it. The main goal of it would be to pound it in to people's heads that this isn't a game so there should be no expectations of artificual jobs, unlimited free content, or much of anything beyond the right to hang out and explore.

Do you understand and accept these things about SL?
If "yes" redirect to signup page.
If "no" redirect to TSO signup page.

It's the job of Linden Lab to retain residents as they oversee the Second Life framework in which we all exist within. If this oversight on the part of Linden Lab is poorly executed, or LL fails at maintaining its relationship with its customers, then the residents of Second Life are under no obligation to step in and fulfill this role.

The only social responsibility of business is to increase its profits while not engaging in deception or fraud (please take a moment to track down and read Milton Friedman's article: The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase Profits). Generating goodwill within the community is not an obligation. It certainly doesn't hurt, but it's not an obligation.

But I'll meet you halfway. The eight bartenders working with me at the Elbow Room have all said, repeatedly, thanks for the job (a tips-only job). However, I've yet to get a Thank You card from Linden Lab in my inbox saying thanks for creating eight jobs and helping to retain eight residents (it's not something I'm going to be holding my breath over).

How many do you think will click "yes"?

Money balls/money chairs/free money machines are great! As a newb, I liked to hang out at Taggy's casino a lot because of the free money machine. It's a great way to earn a few L$ while doing something else, like cleaning the apartment, or making textures, or, as torley said, catching up with IMs.

Sure, it's the least common denominator kind of thing, and truth be told, it doesnt pay all that well. People get bored soon enough and go out to do other things, including getting SL jobs, if that's what they want to do.

Giving away free cash is good for the people who are sitting, they get some L$ while doing nothing.

For the people giving away free cash, most will have some good reason for doing so. Some do it for business reasons -- my casino gives away $12 every 10 minutes, and while I wont be a SL millionaire from my casino revenue soon, it's been profitable for several months now. Some do it for other reasons: wanting to be on top of pop places, or just out of the goodness of their hearts, who knows. But it's their L$, let them spend it on whatever they wish.

I dont think it's bad for the economy either, it's one of the few means of wealth-redistribution in SL -- money flows from the pockets of the rich to the pockets of the poor (who in turn spend it, generating even more economic activity).

I do agree that for people who do not want to just sit and do nothing, they should have other options for making money. And ther *are* many different options, one can learn some skills to sell content, or become a land baron, or sell some other sort of service. There should be *more* jobs in SL, of course. As more jobs become available at decent wages, I suspect the appeal of camping chairs will lessen.

Anyway, I think we should just trust market forces. Sooner or later we will find out if this camping chair business is sustainable or not.

The only one's that ultimately matter to SL's survival.