ok, your av vs. your gender

^^Doesn`t always work that way. But when it does, and I guess it usually does, It makes sense.


A lot of times when I see 'lesbians' i would bet one is a male IRL. When I see gay men in SL I never think one is a female in RL. But I do know plenty of females who can get beyond aroused by a man`s nakedness. I guess its really not in the same way we get aroused over an attractive female`s.

It's a matter of statistics, really. Though there will be exceptions most people do seem to behave according to the observation.

Damn, if you're going to argue about something, argue about something that matters. Or at least something that entertains the rest of us.

You seem awfully comfortable making sweeping generalizations about 3 billion people at a time... =/

Not 3 billion, but certainly a large chunk of it. The statement came from my teacher, of psychological background, in moralities class and has largely proven true. Not absolutely true but the statistical bias is too large to ignore. It would appear to be biological more than anything else and may have roots in the survival instincts of our ancestors.

In essence what it means is that men are easier to arouse. All women have to do is work on the look and they can seriously pull a man in. Whereas men can't do the same, they have to get close ... talk ... touch (if the woman will even let them).

Just compare the volume of porn for men and porn for women.

As I mentioned the first time I posted this (another thread) consider this a power that women have over men.

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of guys have this idea that the only sexy male avatar is the ultrabuilt bodybuilder. There doesn't seem to be much variation from that stereotype when guys try to make a sexy male avatar.

When I see I guy who is that heavily muscled, I assume he is also heavily muscled between teh ears and carry on walking.

As a 50 years old psychologist i find obvious that many men change gender in SL. Its just a consequence of the loss of male identity so all-pervading IRL. What I find interesting is that the gender shifting is very common in well armed “macho” yankees. Its another aspect of a culture’s frailty, just like gor and the D/s obsession. Showing muscles with a childish fear of the dark. Raping cause you are (and you wish to be) raped in your soul.

Shirley, great post. What you portray as the reality of SL, I must admit brings me visions of the future of mankind (i.e, if I was an optimist - and I like to be!). At least, I can't help but to read it in between your lines.

If there is anything I'd like to add (or dispute), it's when I've seen similar polls in other MMO's, including the monster slaying kind, my impression has been that the tendency that more males play as females than vice versa actually persists, although not so strongly expressed as in SL.

Aodhan, good points!




I was originally following another trail of thought. Now, I'm not Camille Paglia, but it could be that the male/female transgender discrepancy tells us that gender dystopia is more prevalent in males than females. In other words, the rewards for being male in our present society are exaggerated and male existence, with its popularly perceived benefits of freedom and power, does not live up to its reputation.
If so, it has gone unnoticed by feminists (and quite honestly, I think many wouldn't like the revelation either). It might also imply something is deeply flawed with feminist theory.

Haha, precisely! The muscle male ideal of SL avatars is really queer! If I made a male avatar he'd actually be big and chubby. But perhaps that's just me.

This thread is getting so intellectually stimulating. So many new things I'm seeing and none of them contradict each other.


@Monique
How would my avatar rate? He's moderately bulky but doesn't compete with Dolly Parton for waist size.

Just so's y'all know that...

Pes

Interesting, and a good observer can always pick. I know I can't. I have done the male as female thing in times past because I was a complete smart-ass fool. But looking back, I'd have to question what my motive was. Maybe I did it because I could, maybe for reasons other.

But I'll tell you, it doesn't pay off emotionally and it won't make them many friends.

Personally, I don't care, because I take people at face value now, and I play my own character as straight up 100% honest. If I say something I do or am in RL, then that's the way it is. And in SL, I don't want to get involved in anything other than the odd interesting chat.

So guys, if you're playing girls, I'd hate to think about where your head is at because I know where mine was, and its not a good place to go, mentally speaking. If you're bored stupid and don't value any kind of future or integrity in SL, it's probably time to find another hobby.

My av is male, but uses the female shape as a base. The male shape just doesn't look good when you make it thin - it loses all muscle definition and just looks shapeless and gelatinous, consequently I use female. It's a shame they don't have facial hair and a 'bulge' slider because I'd find that pretty useful. The result is currently a bit more androgynous than I was aiming, but I'm ok with that.

When I meet a man or a woman in SL or IRL - I meet a man or a woman.. . IF a man want to be a woman its a woman or the opposite.. - if its a wolf I meet a wolf.. if I meet a rabbit I meet a rabbit..

Its not to me to decide what they ”are” its they how are.. let it be like that and life will be very easy.. and probably both nice, fun and very educating....

I talk to brain - with a brain.. .. not what they have between the legs or other...

/Tina - EXAKT trying to explain.. prob my English are not adequate to explain my feelings correctly.. sorry..

Only person being stupid here is you.

You are arguing with me for the sake of arguing. I said that "Kitsune" in SL generally refers to a furry. I never said it did not mean anything else. And SO WHAT that it has other meanings. Regardless of what you say "KITSUNE" in SL USUALLY -NOT ALWAYS- refers to a furry. Only stupidity I see is your inability to admit a simple truism. Deal with it.

And yea, I am older than you, newb toad.

Briana Dawson

I would suggest then that if you are a real psychologist (which I doubt), you need to be reported to your board. Your post reeks of problems and unprofessionalism. First off, your post seemed to have the sole purpose of being insulting and degrading, being full of degenerative expressions and demeaning psychobabble. You then used the 'psychologist' label to justify your denigrations. That is a violation of your professional ethics.

Second, your whole criticism is based on the failed presumption that individuals must kowtow to social norms and if they don't they are mentally ill (example, the old DSM diagnosis that being gay is a mental illness). Psychoanalysis is suppose to heal damaged minds, not act as a enforcer of inflexible social rules and bigotries.

Shirley did express this very well. Removing the physical power disparity in SL does definitely shift the balance in favor of female self-expression.

I don't think this poll could be used as a guide to RL transgender feelings. Part of the trouble is that "transgender" is a blanket term that covers a lot of different motivations and degrees of self-expression. There are very few people of either sex that feel compelled to completely transsex. Most, I think, try to find some reconciliation between how they feel inside and what options their bodies give them.

Now, I can't speak for any society but my own (Western U.S.), but feminism has definitely had its impact in what we consider "transgendered". I feel that women have gained a much wider zone of socially acceptable expression than men. It is unremarkable for women to be dressed in jeans and flannel shirts, for instance. Women can go a long way into "butch" territory before people start thinking they must be gay or transgendered. Also, men who start with female bodies tend to be much more successful at assimilating quietly into the male population.

The "zone" for men has expanded a little over the years, but not nearly to the same extent. Wearing long hair, makeup, jewelry, let alone skirts or tank tops with thin straps, immediately marks a male-bodied person as outside the norm. And male-bodied women have a much harder time, in general, changing their appearance to the point of full assimilation.

All these things mean that male-to-female transgenderism is much more visible in society than female-to-male transgenderism. This does not tell you whether there are more "boys that feel like girls" than "girls who feel like boys". It just means that the "boys" have a lot more social stigma to face in attempting to express themselves.

Where's the option for [ ] You're a male, but no one can tell wtf you are because you're too bloody inhuman?

And don't forget that social norms are not the same across the board. Each culture has unique ones onto themselves.

Dude, wtf? You lose your forum virginity to a post that's fraught with nationalty stereotypes (well-armed "macho" yankees), what I would guess is anti-feminist tripe (loss of male identity so all-pervading IRL), comments besmirching D/s practitioners and some rather questionable statements about rape? Not to mention, you don't seem to find any room for people who want to play around with gender in SL beyond... well, whatever it is you said.

And you're a psych? I pity your patients

Don't make the mistake of assuming everyone who does something does it with the same motive you had in mind.

I know some people who change gender in SL because they do feel they are the wrong gender IRL, can't pass IRL and see this as the closest they can come to to making their sense of self match their reality.

I know some people who change gender because they like to roleplay and want to try it as an RP challenge.

Some do it just for kicks.

Some do it to see if they are treated differently by others as the opposite gender.

There are all kinds of reasons that people can choose to do this without losing integrity needing to have their head examined.

I would've expected a "50 years old psychologist" to be better at spelling, punctuation and basic grammar.

I wouldn't. I've met plenty of highly degreed people whose command of grammar is somewhat less than awe-inspiring. In fact, a lot of them aren't all that bright or even especially knowledgeable, either. Like it or not, it's perfectly possible to encounter a security guard, for example, who's far more well-read and intelligent than, say, a given company executive (or a U.S. president? ). It may not be the absolute norm, but it certainly does happen.

Remember: it's not what you know. It is whom you know.

Allow me to sum this thread up in a single statement:

"If I've just had sex with a female avatar who ended up being male in real life, does this means i'm gay?"

... and how many capital letters you use.