Warning! Self-replicating Land Scanner on many sims!
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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03-13-2005 05:08
From: Unhygienix Gullwing
Perhaps the Devil's Advocate is not so despicable a person, despite the repeated use of the phrase in this thread.
I was waiting for you, actually wondering why you were so late... theheheh... I don't know if you are aware that certain definitions have both an historical meaning and a common meaning (often derived from the historical meaning but not always similar), and this kinda useless boast of culture doesn't change a single quote of what has been said. From: blaze Spinnaker
If even 20% of the SL users was using a public land scanner, the system would bog down
I'd say much less than 20%, i'm fairly sure than even 10 people running the same system would give a completely umbearable hit to the grid's performance. From: Eggy Lippman Yeah, but that's one helluva large IF there, isn't it? Helluva large IF? If Mr. Fats is allowed to run his nice grid wide non returnable satellite system why shouldn't everyone else feel entitled to fill the sky with small non returnable satellites that will completely fdisrupt any chance to have fun in the grid? If one is allowed to, everyone should. And if everyone is allowed to do it, it's very easy to reach an high percentage. People literally HAUL ASS to make the scripts they run in THEIR OWN land as server friendly as possible, taking care of the health (lag wise) of the sims they live in. Why should a random smarty that doesn't even own land there and has nothing to do with that sim be able to disrupt their efforts? Too bad. Retry, you might be more lucky next time. From: someone That little prim would only need to get the simulator's name and coordinates, email them back to a central server, spawn a few prims that would move to the adjacent simulators and then die MUCH different. this takes the resources of a sim for a few seconds and nothing else. Let's not turn the head the other way whistling and pretening not to have noticed that the king is naked please. Pete's system occupies the whole grid's resources indefinately and is NOT RETURNABLE. It does nopt give land owners a chance to get rid of it like EVERY item should. There is an OCEAN of difference between this and a possible legit use of high flying satellites that first of all would be RETURNABLE, giving the option to land owner to simply return them with a click (or automatically with auto return). NO ONE should have the right to place sneaky items on someone's land without giving them the option of returning them with the usual atoreturn fuctions. Simple. Otherwise one could place an item near his place's limits and have it continuously rez another temp on rez item 10 meters in someone elses property. Too bad. Retry, you might be more lucky next time. |
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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03-13-2005 05:10
*wanders into thread with medical bag*
*administers rabies shots*
*leaves*
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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03-13-2005 05:12
From: Foolish Frost Even if this issue is found lacking, that does not mean that Pete should be punished at all, or even 'warned'. It just means the TOS would have to be updated and he advised that it's not an appropriate action anymore.
I disagree. This issue is not new, it's months that it causes trouble. Pete fats had an extremely irresponsible behaviour and is causing a damage grid wide for his own gain (or for the gain of the ones benefitting from the data he gathers). He should be promptly punished alongside with everyone behind him to pose an example to future wannabe smarties that feel are smarter than everyone else and as such entitled to game the system. |
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Al Bravo
Retired
Join date: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 373
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03-13-2005 05:13
What the hell happened to the 'no naming names' forum rule? Is that gone? Can we all now start openly bashing each other?
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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03-13-2005 05:17
Someone left the name slip at the beginning of the thread, it's kinda pointless and hypocrite hiding it now that the cat is out of the bag.
And anyway his name is LITERALLY scattered all around the grid.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 05:20
From: Shiryu Musashi Simple. Otherwise one could place an item near his place's limits and have it continuously rez another temp on rez item 10 meters in someone elses property.
Too bad. Retry, you might be more lucky next time. Good point That might be viewed as grieving, in fact probably. Yet doing it at 400m seems to be overlooked. I asked the Hotline to the Lindens, this question: Do invidual rights, supercede the rights of land owners with the use of these bots? Hopefully we get a decisive reply soon. |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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03-13-2005 05:21
From: Shiryu Musashi I disagree. This issue is not new, it's months that it causes trouble. Pete fats had an extremely irresponsible behaviour and is causing a damage grid wide for his own gain (or for the gain of the ones benefitting from the data he gathers). He should be promptly punished alongside with everyone behind him to pose an example to future wannabe smarties that feel are smarter than everyone else and as such entitled to game the system.  Sorry, I just find that entire rant amusing... 'game the system'... All right, let's try this: What makes you think you have even the slightest idea what the Lindens had in mind for this 'system'? For all we know, this is a psych experiement gone horribly right. |
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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03-13-2005 05:25
From: Foolish Frost
All right, let's try this: What makes you think you have even the slightest idea what the Lindens had in mind for this 'system'? For all we know, this is a psych experiement gone horribly right.
Oh yeah, let's go into science-fiction now. |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 05:26
From: Foolish Frost He may not even know this conversation is taking place here. I've spoken with more than one user that said, "What forums?" Ummm, what rock have you been living under? There have been several postings alluding to sending IMs to the creator of these objects. The creator/owner is only half the issue. There is a recipient of the data as well. Having examined the script, it is reasonable to conclude, its sole purpose is to generate a report via IM and eMail as to the status of public land in sims. |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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03-13-2005 05:40
From: Weedy Herbst Ummm, what rock have you been living under? Third to the right. What? I'm not allowed to sleep under a rock? |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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03-13-2005 05:42
From: Shiryu Musashi Oh yeah, let's go into science-fiction now. Some of the psych experiments documented read better than most science fiction... At least they did when I was in college... That was a time ago, though... |
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Al Bravo
Retired
Join date: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 373
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03-13-2005 05:52
From: Shiryu Musashi Someone left the name slip at the beginning of the thread, it's kinda pointless and hypocrite hiding it now that the cat is out of the bag.
And anyway his name is LITERALLY scattered all around the grid. Ah - OK that makes it right then. Got it. So if I just 'let it slip' we can openly bash? One wrong makes it right? Once one person breaks the rule, we all can break the rule? Phew... glad we cleared that up. |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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03-13-2005 05:52
Foolish is a new user. Let's wait until he gets addicted to SL before we start our industrial strength forum flaming on him.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 05:53
From: Foolish Frost Third to the right.
What? I'm not allowed to sleep under a rock? I really don't care which rock truthfully, all I ask is you read the threads prior to hijacking them. Surely you don't mean to come across as misinformed, do you? |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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03-13-2005 06:12
From: blaze Spinnaker Foolish is a new user. Let's wait until he gets addicted to SL before we start our industrial strength forum flaming on him. It's OK. I'm a resident of the Nutkinland forums. Their idea of wecoming a newby is to kick him in the sack and take his wallet. From: Weedy Herbst I really don't care which rock truthfully, all I ask is you read the threads prior to hijacking them. Surely you don't mean to come across as misinformed, do you? You asked, I answered. I can't help it if you don't know how to ask the right questions... And I read the entire thread before posting in it. Front to back. I went ahead and did a search on his name in the forums, and it seems that he did post here before. That still does not mean he's seen this thread, or knows exactly how many people are upset with him. I don't know what was said in the IM sent to him, nore how eloquent they were in prose. What I'm saying is, I don't know what he's thinking, and neither do you unless you have some great psionic gift. If so, I expect my head will explode any secon...*#&#&#)#_)@#*!*@& CARRIER LOST... |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 06:23
From: Foolish Frost It's OK. I'm a resident of the Nutkinland forums. Their idea of wecoming a newby is to kick him in the sack and take his wallet. ... Welcome to Secondlife forums, Im sure you will make a good troll. From: Foolish Frost You asked, I answered. I can't help it if you don't know how to ask the right questions...... Wow, so if indeed you are serious about your reply, whats life like under a rock? From: Foolish Frost What I'm saying is, I don't know what he's thinking, and neither do you unless you have some great psionic gift....... I made no suggestion about his state of mind. Don't put words in my mouth. |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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03-13-2005 06:39
From: Weedy Herbst Welcome to Secondlife forums, Im sure you will make a good troll.
Wow, so if indeed you are serious about your reply, whats life like under a rock?
I made no suggestion about his state of mind. Don't put words in my mouth. Troll, no... Sarcastic bastard, Ohhhh ya... I just think a few of you guys are taking your impotant raging a bit to seriously. Come on guys, he made a scanner that sneaks around and gather's data. He didn't kick your dog... This guy is not even TRYING to hurt your game. He has hundreds of these things wandering about, and it hasn't seemed to crash anything yet. If he really wanted to be an ass about it, or a 'griefer' (interesting term, by-the-way), he could have put a random atttack clause in them attached to a clock. Suddenly, everybody gets flung into the void at noon! THAT's my point. It seems he was trying to use the system to his advantage to do something that would help him, and did not obviously hurt others. I'm not sure of much, but that sounds like human nature (TM) to me, and I'm not going to agree to kicking him in the balls for that. Perhaps it just takes a bit more to get my dander up... |
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 06:46
From: Foolish Frost
THAT's my point. It seems he was trying to use the system to his advantage to do something that would help him, and did not obviously hurt others.
My neighbor was in tears 2 days ago, because of a mistake she made, her land was taken by someone who got info from these bots. Seems like hurt to me. |
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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03-13-2005 06:49
From: Foolish Frost Troll, I just think a few of you guys are taking your impotant raging a bit to seriously. Come on guys, he made a scanner that sneaks around and gather's data.
No he made HUNDREDS of them. From: someone This guy is not even TRYING to hurt your game. He has hundreds of these things wandering about, and it hasn't seemed to crash anything yet. Making sim crash (that is an immdiately bannable offense) would be a kinda foolish way to grief. Using more subtle ways mixed with humongous irresponsibility (that is not very different from guilt) doesn't mean he is not causing a damage. |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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03-13-2005 07:16
(1) What is the purpose of the scripts?
(2) Where is the creator and what can he tell us?
(3) Can we get a credible, definitive statement from someone, the creator, the Lindens, etc., about sim resources the objects are eating up?
Until those sorts of questions can be answered, we can't know whether it's griefing or not. Personal perspectives are mere speculation.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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03-13-2005 07:20
From: Shiryu Musashi Making sim crash (that is an immdiately bannable offense) would be a kinda foolish way to grief. Pffffft. If making a sim crash was a bannable offense, many scripters wouldn't be here, myself included 
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 07:21
From: Seth Kanahoe (1) What is the purpose of the scripts?
(2) Where is the creator and what can he tell us?
(3) Can we get a credible, definitive statement from someone, the creator, the Lindens, etc., about sim resources the objects are eating up?
Until those sorts of questions can be answered, we can't know whether it's griefing or not. Personal perspectives are mere speculation. These are good questions, but a side issue to the real question, which is this: Is it right to use everyone's land without permission? Every mainland land owner is affected. |
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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03-13-2005 07:36
From: Weedy Herbst My neighbor was in tears 2 days ago, because of a mistake she made, her land was taken by someone who got info from these bots. Seems like hurt to me. Ok, you have my attention. I didn't know these bots were confirmed (really confirmed) as land readers for doing that. You got evidence of the crime, I'll sharpen my pitchfork an begin with the pokie. As to the hundreds of bots, I understood that. I don't argue the point of what you are saying, I'm just saying that it may not have been malice as much as not understanding the infrastructure of the system. Then again, he might be an ass... |
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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03-13-2005 07:47
Not that any of you will actually care because I believe the majority of you would rather lynch someone ....but last night Pete, Ingrid, and myself tested his scanners in boardman. We tested for approximately an hour both with the scanners running and with the scanners off. The resources used up were negligable at best ....in fact after it was off we noticed several other scripts in the sim that really made a significant impact such as the wonderful visitor list makers that everyone has set to scan every 0.1 secs and of course the wonderful scrubbies that tell people sim FPS but dont tell people they hit the sims resources too.
when monitoring run tasks it was between 71-74% when the scanners were on and between 68-74% when scanners were off. Sim FPS fluctuated between 1800-2500FPS both when the scanners were on and when they were off. There was no noticable dip in resources when the scanners came on or went off.
Also I might add that there are other people who have scanners active in sims ...quite a lot and it cant be known what impact they have or how they are running ...I can only account for the test we did on petes.
If you really want to bitch about something eating up sim resources I would suggest going after visitor list makers seeing as there are literally thousands of them out there.
ok end of public service announcement you may go back to your regularly sponored rants.
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Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life
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Weedy Herbst
Too many parameters
Join date: 5 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,255
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03-13-2005 07:48
From: Foolish Frost Ok, you have my attention. I didn't know these bots were confirmed (really confirmed) as land readers for doing that. You got evidence of the crime, I'll sharpen my pitchfork an begin with the pokie.. Sigh, are you sure you read this entire thread? The code was posted, allow me to refer: /108/39/38280/8.htmlre: Malachi Petunia's post |