The future of SL: Why not help make it happen!

<foolish frost rolls a chair out into the room>

<foolish frost goes back for an uncountable number of chairs, a table of undefined size, and sets them all up in a semi-comfortable manner>

<sets out snacks and drinks of unknown tastes>

<sits down in his comfy chair, and takes a deep breath>


Hullo everyone. I want to say firstly, this is going to be long winded. I'll try to sum it up near the end, but no promises. If you hate long posts, then be along your merry way, and let me not detain you further.

Those of you remaining: Have a seat, enjoy a drink. This may take a while, and you should at least be comfortable.


Well. Has this not been an exciting few weeks? SL opened to the public without any restraint. Free account allowances cut. SL's anniversary interrupted by system glitches that may-or-may-not have been griefer related...

I hear statements that griefing is up, that sales are down, and that system stability has gone haywire.

I've seen protests and rants of the changes, and angry people tearing each other to bits over every perceived insult they might have heard.

Hmnnnn...

Let's go over some of the things done by LL. In detail.

- First, they removed the 50 lindens given weekly to those with free accounts.

Well, we can assume they knew they were going to remove the blockades to registration. This means that this HAD to happen to prevent the use of alts for money harvesting.

I have to say, I've always been dubious of the free allowance to avatars. Looking at it in the most basic way, it meant that LL was actually buying things and giving it to the new players. At least with the non-free accounts, you could point out that the player was paying for his allowance. I make no bones about the fact this has hurt sales for not only my friends, but myself as well. As soon as this happened, I saw sales plummet.

Problem is, all this does is point out how much LL has been supplementing my sales through this.


- LL has also opened registration in such a way as to make is as painless as possible.

We know the effects of this. There is no denying that it has had a negative impact on SL in the short term. We are currently unable to be sure of who we are dealing with, and stopping aggressive griefers has generally become impossible.

Sadly, I have to say, from personal experience, that this has always been the case in SL. I have had the irritation of dealing with aggressive griefers and even teams of them. The point has always been made to me this: If someone wants to grief others, it is impossible to stop them. The fact it's happening more now does not point to the simplified registration as being a problem, but that SL's land controls need an overhaul.

No, not fixing. Rebuilding. Let me pick up on this farther down.

We also know that we have no way to tell the children from the adults.

Guess what: We again, never did. While the scale is now higher, all that does is bring to the forefront the problem that has always existed. Children CAN and HAVE gotten into SL, and some adults have gotten into some rather creepy, if not downright frightening, situations. You see, in SL, we are on equal footing with children. We cannot note their age and dismiss them out-of-hand, we cannot card them effectively. We cannot even note who they really are and march them to their parents and warn them of what you had just caught them doing.

But the internet has had that problem for years. It's a problem that for SL, we HAVE to fix. The old methods do not really protect the children from us, or even us from the children. They just make it where we only get the craftier kids who know how to play the games better.


- SL crashes and glitches.

We can see, as a rule, that SL is unstable. It crashes for seemingly random reasons. It seems to be so network dependant that even the slightest glitch can cause loss of data and work. I can go on, but those of us here already have lived all the problems.

And yet LL has obviously been a work-in-progress since the first day I was here. I have NEVER seen LL promote SL as a finished product, ready for the universe at large. They have allowed those that wanted in, but I have never seen them advertise to companies that they should use SL as a polished solution to their needs.

Still, the glitches sometime want to make me stomp on my hat, but what can be said: I was warned when I first came online.



Annnyway…


I see all of the things that have been happening, and something occurred to me.

Linden Labs is preparing to do something. They have some kind of time table, and that they are making changes to ready for a large scale change.

And then Philip just out and said it: They want SL to be more than just a single online world. They want to open the software to by run anywhere.

Which is exactly why all of the above changes HAD to take place.

Picture it: People running SL servers like web servers. Able to make modifications to the overall design based on their needs, but all using an open standard for the client to access the servers.

Now, people say that you don’t NEED a 3D web. And the most basic fact is that they are correct. The web browser, in it’s current form, is more or less here to stay.

But web pages are not the internet. They run on top of it.

Just like SL.

Let me offer a vision to you. Somewhat pure Sci-FI, but plausible:

<start example>

You get up, get out of bed, and read the news from your favorite website. Noticing an article on security vs. freedom, you follow it and look it over.

At the bottom, you notice the news site has opened a temporary discussion panel and click in to join. Your terminal switches to 3D and drops you into an auditorium with hundreds of people discussing the issue in groups of about a dozen per table. You wander over to one as a good friend send you an IM asking you what you’re doing up so early.

Telling them, they ask for a link and appear next to you. You both walk over, and while listening, keep your own private chat open.

You run out of time, and have to start getting to work. Logging out, you remember to leave behind a drone to record the rest of the debate and forward it to you. Switching to your company website, you follow a link into your corporate meeting room and turn on your camera to catch your face.

The camera is a simple design: It just pastes you face to your avatar in real-time and allows facial expression along with the voice-chat. You notice your partner is sales is already there, and drop a copy of your sales figures on his avatar. He nods in your direction and finishes his talk with your manager.

<end>

I could go on, but the fact is, while SL IS currently too complicated to use effectively, so were a lot of systems when first created. When you get down to it, things like IRC chat and newsgroups were always a bit too hard for the layman to figure out. Some do, but most people who browse the web never seem to have ever even accessed them.

What I eventually see is the technology of SL merging with the other common features of the internet: Instant Messaging, Web Browsing, Forums… It’s not supposed to replace them, as much as compliment them with an additional form of communication. I see the ability to drop files from your desktop seamlessly to another avatar without even thinking about it. I see the ability for people to listen to whatever you’re currently listening to, if you allow it.

For an idea of what I think, look at qnext.com and picture that merged into the SL client.

The problem is, a LOT of SL systems will not work with an open design like that: The closed login system will have to go. It will probably have to be replaced with an authentication system more like a passport or cookies. Your identity, or levels of it, would be provided to ‘worlds’ depending on what you request. Want to buy something, then you have to offer them an account and proof you can buy with it. Want to go to an adult online brothel, then you have to have proof of age in your profile.

Now, what does this do to prevent hacking, stealing of information, faking profiles, and identity confirmation?

Simple, none of the systems SL had or has can do this with a decentralized system. They are going to have to come up with one, and soon, in order to deal with all the problems with the internet we have nowadays. They have to place these things into SL BEFORE they continue, because the internet is no longer a place where you can make something wide open and add security as you go along. The entire idea of security has become mandatory to any web application.

So, here is my proposal. We have smart people here. I mean a LOT of smart people here. Genius level in many cases. Instead of complaining (even rightfully) about things going away that worked half-assed, let’s come up with ways they will not only work, but will work on a large, decentralized, scale.

Or… We can do nothing but throw stones.

Are we up to the challenge?

Crickets. See, reasonable speech doesn't stir the crowd like demogaugery.

I think you're probably right, Foolish. I'm not nuts about the open registration system, but I'm beginning to think maybe it was necessary to help SL progress. It's not the best option, and we do need tools to help us deal with the crap that it'll bring with it, but I'm coming to terms with it. I love SL too much to abandon it, so I don't have much of a choice.

And I like your scenario-- it makes me think of the Metaverse in Snow Crash, and how it's used for business as much as for pleasure. I would love to see that happen, and to see people accept it as a business tool, even a business *place,* not just a high-tech toy.

I'm not a technically-minded person, I'm more creative than technical, but I'd certainly like to see SL evolve and realize its potential. Now if I could just get my system back to the point where I could actually get in again...

Lots of visionary stuff here. I think your little scenario isn't as far away as many people think... give it a decade or two.

In the mean time, the end of your post made an idea go off in my head. There's all of this issue with worrying about age and adults in the grid worrying about getting in trouble for having cybersex with underaged people. We don't have to rely on LL to verify age for us. We can do that ourselves.

Imagine this. Someone I trust, say, a big name in the SL community, sets up an age verification service. For a small fee, they'll accept some kind of real-world document from people that proves their age... I don't know, fax them your license, whatever it takes to convince them that you're over 18.

Now, say I'm running a club, and I only want to let people in who are 18 or over. I review the age-verification service offered by this big-name service, and I choose to trust that if they say you're over 18, you are. I ask them for their RSA public key, and store it in a script somewhere.

Once the service has verified your age, they give you an attachment. It contains a cryptographic signature of your avatar name or key or whatever, and it's encrypted using the age-verification service's private key. Now you can verify concretely and trustably whether the service has verified the person's age; crypto-signing is a solved problem. Result: the underage problem is solved.

Say enough people slip through the net that Joe's Age Verification Service isn't trustable. Clubs will just revoke their trust, by refusing to accept Joe's verification as a valid verification of age. They can display a list of whose verifications they accept in their window, like a "mastercard/visa/discover accepted here" decal.

I think I've just invented an industry. I'd get in on it, but I don't have the time... maybe someone has the time and energy to make this a viable business. It'd be great to see a user-end solution to this sudden problem, rather than relying on LL to verify age for us.

Aye. Great minds think alike.

Let's go one step further: Let's make it an indentity verification company!


Let's see. They have ID accounts they can offer:

Adult Certification (I think Lex covered this)
Skill Certification (Passed a full scripting or building exam)
Employment Certification (they are legally IDed, including phone number and address)
Business Certification (they have a business licence, and other 'certified avatars' can comment on them like hte better business groups)

Am I missing anything? Eh, they can be added later.

Now, the question would be, why trust them?

Well, why trust anyone? Why trust ID confirmation companies that exist now? Simple: they screw up, they never get anymore money again.

And make it simple: Make it free to get certified, but charge those who use it to make the confirmation: An adult site wants adult confirmation, then they get an account that allows them to see who is legal. Allow a less powerful plan for those just wanting to make sure the person they are getting ready to bump pixles with is ok.

I LIKE it! Individual users would not have to worry about everyone knowing who they are, but would have a single site to confirm thier identity! It offers a useful amount of secrecy in their lives, without making it impossible to know who's allowed to do what!

Thoughts?

Thanks for this Foolish. I'm so sick of the pissing and moaning in here.

And the age verification service, Lex, brilliant. Something like the code for Burke Prefect's new security service seems to be halfway there already.

Ok. Another issue on how to link 'Worlds" into a coherant whole...

We have several ways that could be done, but I think a system like what we have now for urls would do it:

A central company (presumably LL?) could hold the IP addresses of SL servers that are supposed to be 'public'. These servers could have listed 'world' coordinates in a database that tells where they are relative to each other. It sends those addresses to the client, and it downloads and accesses the proper server to help make a continual landscape.

Make the cost of this about the same as for a domain. $5 to $20 a year. Coordinate with groups like google and yahoo to make it possible to search sims for data so that thier search engines can look them over for changes.

Heck, that last part is simple as having data export from Sims direct to XML data that can be displayed in web pages or streamed between sites.

And as to having communication from items and scripts running on random sims direct to you? Just have it where all data is dispatched by email direct to an account of your choosing, or even better: A central user registry where 'drone scripts' can store data for you until you access it there!

Am I blathering again?

You know. Something else occured to me:

LL seems to be having a lot of problems upgrading SL. In fact, I remember a while back some of the Lindens talking about the fact that things like Havok not being able to be upgraded very easily due to inherant problems with SLs code not being as moddable as it could be.

So, just a thought...

What if they have been woking on a new client server system for SL? One make to be more modular? One built by taking the parts of hte current SL and making them into cleaner functions the play nice with each other when upgraded or modded?

Now, I have no proof of this. Heck, I don't even have anything that would point in this direction, but it seems to be that even if it's not true, it might be a good idea!

Hear me out: It would not be starting over from scratch. Most of the hard stuff has already been figured out. Large chunks of the code could be moved over and cleaned up. But would it not be better to create a new framework that DID allow upgrades to be created in a modular manner? Would that even make the idea of SL being intrigrated into general net usage even more likely?

Thoughts?

http://spwiki.editme.com/HigginsIntroduction

I believe Robin has mentioned that SL is considering this system.

Yay for decentralized SL!

Nice to see people thinking in terms of an open 3D web. Like it or not thats where SL is heading. And personally I can't wait to host my own private sim here at home. Ironically I think the one's missing the pitch the most is LL. They have their goal which is a great goal, but everything they do is focused on the context of the Linden contained world. Why doesn't LL want to be a payment processing company? The L$ is either a HUGE liability or it is a HUGE establishment point for LL as a payment processing company. Instead of having to deal with L$'s as a liability embrace their position as a payment processing company. Instead of working on client side glitter LL should be focusing on server side nuts and bolts while opening up the client so users can create their own glitter. The client is simply IE or Firefox 3D version. Why is LL wasting so much time on that? LL's focus should be on 3 things protocols, decentralization, and strengthening their position as a solid but not sole provider of important services(hosting, payment processing, identity verification to name a few).

<Summer Carmichael slides up to the table>

<Summer Carmichael pulls out her laptop, taking notes and listening>

<Summer Carmichael really appreciated the time and thought that went into the presentation>

I have nothing to add at this time, but you certainly left me with some things to consider. Thank you for your thoughts on this.

I have a certain skillset to bring to the table but I'm not sure at this time how I can contribute. I'd like to fully digest everything you brought up.

By most accounts this is where the focus of LL hiring has been over the last year or so...

at the meeting yesterday phillip briefly mentioned a "webservices thing which i can't talk about quite yet". thoughts? speculation? rabble?

HI,
I joined up in early June and now have land and friends. Lots to do in here and great fun.
Now, I've been trying to follow all that's been happening lately and I've even been attacked -- at Sandboxes, on my own property and at a welcome center. But that's for another topic.
My main thing is that I've put in some real $$$$ into SL since I've joined and definitely don't want to see my new 'toy' ruined or messed up. I'm not technical on stuff by any means, but like the ideas here. A 3D web --- awesome concept.
SL is great fun and worth what I've put into it. I've greatly enjoyed my accomplishments. So, those of you that can actually make things better here, I wish you the best.

Burtrum

Pratyeka comes in bringing a box of donuts and pie...

Yes, cool head Frost describe a possible future... very nice.

I remember also a future that was described to the world during the fifties and early sixties, full of flying cars and houses that would clean themselves. Where's my flying car today?

A 3D internet sounds nice, sure. But who needs it? do we really need it?

Sorry to sound so negative, I wish I could have some positive suggestion or idea to add to your dream future. But I just can't see how everyone using the net today or in 5 years or even 10 coming up with the power PC needed to run a 3D viewer capable of giving a bug free, lag free immersive experience. I see it reserved only to the few with the cash to have a mini-super-computer at home, with a X-gigabytes/sec fiber-optic line plugged into it.

BUt that's just me. Look at the cell phones. Before they were invented, civilization was doing just fine. Now, some people get heart attacks if they forget it at home or in a restaurant bathroom. Hell, They even believe it's ok to drive while talking on their cell... NUTS!

We are too much in love with our gadgets. A 3d web, to give an illusion of being somewhere we cannot go physically? what is more important, the information to be shared or the illusion that we are giving the information in person?

Because that's what it comes down to: sharing information. we lost sight of what information is really needed to get the job done. We are in love with illusions, appearance, bling and whistles. Toys... it's time to put them away and grow up....

What am I saying? Must be tired and rambling. No offence intended.

And yet your here just like everyone else. Any time a player says a 3D net is pointless it sounds kind of... hollow.

Most excellent scenario description of future vision. Helping us all to keep in
mind that this is not a static situation. The future is rushing towards us
far faster than most of us probably realize. Some newfangled things or ideas
fall by the wayside regardless of how seemingly intelligent they may be. But
almost every Huge Idea that has the ability to not only to provide a function
but also entertainment gets implemented. We make things here that are impossible in RL, we can fly, teleport, speaking to anyone anywhere is pretty darn close to electronic telepathy.
And it all arises from the Idea of Simulation. Which btw is not a new idea
mental conception itself is simulation, visualization the same.
Drawing on paper or walls is a method of bringing those ideas into our world
as a form or creation. I daresay as heretical as it may have been to do at certain times in our history that Visualization and Creation are inseparable and a Right. The creation of records as memory aids to preserve and speed the future implementation of such ideas is as old as recorded history. pun?

All of these concepts are incorporated into the modern computer.
Yet unlike any creation before it, it has the capacity to directly aid in the design of a better version of itself, bringing a definately exponential factor
into the mix.
Escape as a historical concept has ALWAYS sold bigtime,storytellers, books, radio,tv, drugs and alcolhol, sports, entertainment,computers, the Internet,
The 3D Internet, Hello.
Especially if there is even the smallest shred of functionality as an excuse
they have all sold like crazy, and none of them have gone away.

In 1992 I had the good educational fortune if not the actual financial fortune
to aid a PHD in cognitive science, to attempt to start a software startup
to market and incredible idea for a application. (especially at the time)
We actually got off to a good start, yet due to a series of fairly catastrophic health problems on the part of our intelectual leader we were forced to disband. However the point now is that, that time was one of the most fascinating of my life. Our attempts to gain investment and alliances
led us down roads and to people we had not previously considered.
In '94 I got to sit down with the Director of the Human Interface Technology
Lab at the University of Washington. He was the guy that was primarily instrumental in developing the Heads Up Display system for the Air Force.
We also spoke to his Chief of Technology who described to us a possible
software platform called N-space which was 3D in nature and and also preserved resources in a much similar sounding way as Occlusion Culling.
We then toured the lab got to strap on these helmet things that hung from
the ceiling from thick cables. From within which we witnessed being inside a rudimentary 3D grid full of sharks while holding a Real life, very large fishing net, we swung away at the sharks. Since the handle of the net was also
connected to cables we were able to catch a few of them to the sound of breaking glass?, lol.
Then we saw this huge mechanical contraption that looked like a Sci Fi
Lazer Gun bolted to a table. It was a early prototype of a the retinal
display system some of us have heard about.
Well to say the least, this gave me a feeling of being on the cutting or some say bleeding edge of exactly the type of technology I was most interested in.
Which was- is the extension of our collective visualization of better ways
to live our lives as global citizens.
No really, hehe.
Ive been fascinated by philosophy since I was a child, which led to me
gaining a freakish lexicon of an autodidactic vocabulary. Which was the only reason I got to hang out with this brilliant PHD, that and that I was not
afraid to introduce myself to others at software conferences. I always doubted my right to be among them as I was a 30 year old food server at the time, lol.
Yet there we were I had recruited five other people to our cause who stuck together pretty well for four years. One of the people we met with regularly
was convinced that our technology would enable the use of intelligent agents
for he was constantly talking about the coming information superhighway
and being the one to help all the major corporations to go digital. Back then it was the time of the "You Will!" campaign by AT & T. A series of gee whiz bang
commercials foretelling the coming of all the star trek tech along with the
Info Superhighway. Personally being of the type to leap ahead without troubling myself with all the details of implementation. I knew it was only a matter of time. Seeing the movie the Lawnmower Man, made me feel like a kid
on Christmas morning. "The Future is Coming!, and Soon." lol.
Although the plot was horrible the premise was awesome.
After the demise of our company i just decided to take a few years long break
from tech to drink instead. A few years ago I got bored of that and
stopped that entirely. So I got right back into it (i.e.tech), shortly thereafter
I read an article about Second Life and virtual property. I found it to be very intriguing and exciting. So I decided that this was a concept that would not go away, as well as a powerful skill to have. So I spent the last year and a
half studying graphics and 3d modeling, so much so that I almost completely
forgot about the second life article. Thus like so many others I saw Anshe
on the cover of business week, and remembered why i started all this studying. I apologize for the long winded rambling story, sort of.

Buuutt, getting back to my point which you also so kindly reminded me of Mr. Frost is that this sandbox we are are playing in is exactly that.
Yet it represents something that WILL happen across the internet and the
globe. Yet like so many other things that have come and gone, LL needs to position itself for the massive transitions that are coming. For the implications go far beyond the earlier mentioned Escape and Business functions.
The feeling of personal connection is amazingly different in this environ than in
a chat room with little stamp sized pics and moving lines of text.
The international factor not only has a business element but also
a potential historical Human Evolution Factor that could/ will bridge many
cultural divides that I see as the major causes of unrest in the World.

Perhaps someday Governments will check with the their own people and the webwork of existing relationships that exist between two countries before all of the diplomatic and economic decisions are made on their own.
And yeah Id rather show off my creations than deal with greifers.
And perhaps someday maybe that will be the primary occupation of the Worlds governments rather than the alt-ernative.

(As usual over the top optimistic. lol)

So thanks again Foolish (ironic name), for this positve thread and the opening
of long winded forum contributions at least right here. lol.

Exalent post

I have been a staunch supporter of bring back Identity verification over the last week or so.
Today I was talking to a coworker who knows a bit of SL from what i have told him and I mentioned to day to him about the new registration in SL.
and we discussed it for a bit. One of the main Ideas he brought up was that. If Sl is going to expand to be a 3D web service then they will need to have open complete unrestricted access.
And I thought to my self hes right there cant be any restrictions on acess if second life is to grow to become the next 3D web service.

Its funny I have read much of what many people have wrote in these forums about the new registration system, both pro and con. and in talking with my friend at work face to face for only 15 mins i came away with more enlightenment then i have reading the endless posts about the new registration in these forums.

And now after reading foolish's post here I am even more in favor of the way Linden Labs is doing the new registration. If the tools they promised come I think we will be protected sufficiently.

I only wish I could wright out more of how I am feeling but typing is a big chore for me I love to talk and can talk till the cows come home but typing is not my best suit because i think 1000 times faster then my big hands can type.

Second life is changing and Linden Labs is going to do what they think is best for Second Life as they see it.
So I say we can do one of two things Embrace the Change and keep our selves seated firmly in our seats and make the most we can from the current situation.
or we can get up out of our seats and step off The train.

I for one am going to embrace the change even if the train goes straight to hell because It sure as heck will be one wild ride.
I don't think it will go in that direction I believe the train we are on will grow wings and fly
but either way I am here stay.

Bummer. We lost a bunch of good posts from this thread when the forums were reset.

I don't feel like trying to remember exactly what I posted before. I remember posting something to the effect that identity verification services could be implemented in the kind of system Foolish was describing, as well as age verification and blacklists for known griefers. But later on someone else was saying that this would impose a huge load on the server(s), making the system even laggier than it is.

Oh well. I guess if anyone said anything really important, they'll post it again.

neko

Whoop! Back up and running!

<replaces the old food with fresh fair, and refills everyone's drinks>

There may still be posts in your browser caches. I'll copy mine to another folder when I get home for lunch. I should have thought of that before.


I remember when we lost the entire scripting forum. Grrrrr......

Palace (2.5D Chat System) Started off as one server then allowed people to have their own servers but pay for a licence so that you showed up on a registrar very much like the islands today. Some of the sub servers were a world into its own. One could always see how many people we on said server.

I ran 4 of them on one Linux server. Was great fun.

I have 2 sims now. If I could have my own servers building my islands it would be interesting. I assume we are in the 50k range which sort of makes it very serious.

J

I disagree, the web browsers have added more and more video and might also add 3D.

When lynx was king who needed images?

It's content that sits on the web.. any kind.

2D pages are popular because we have popular browsers. We don't have popular 3D pages because we don't have popular (or good, or easy to use) 3D browsers.

The web wants to be 3D... (and 2D, and video, and sound)... it just needs the tools for creation and a way to view it. Look at google earth. We now have an earth browser.

HTML is just one way of doing things.

Let's also not forget that however much *we* want to be 'part of the future of Second Life', every boneheaded shortsighted Linden Labs decision that makes it harder for this to happen makes it less and less of a possibility.

No verification, and the creation of a 'caste' system where people can be prejudged and discriminated against purely on their account type, are just two of the recent ones. There are also many more.

How are we ever going to be part of the future if we have no say in it?

Lewis