Political correctness

I saw the movie what the bleep. It was interesting. Although I have hard time believe that people become addicted to being victimized and choose to be victimized as children.

You're assuming, as did Chris, that I am saying it is a bad thing. I haven't indicated either way.

I'm not. I am simply stating, as you have, that what is, is.

Some of you folks are so touchy on this topic that you don't read what has been actually written and simply jump to assumptions, much more than you have cause to.

God save the Queen.

Name a government in the world that isn't based in one particular religion to some extent. Hell, even China is essentially worshipping Mao!

The difference between them and the U.S. and other more advanced countries?

You are all allowed to say what you've been saying in this thread.

This thread is silly. Political correctness is why Bush is president and why we're still in Iraq. If the democrats had balls instead of wanting to know how everyone thinks of them then they would have been able to do something by now. Instead they're just as impotent now as they were before they controlled Congress.

Everyone can believe what they want to, but that doesn't mean they're right. There is one truth out there for every subject. 2+2=4. The earth is round. Water is wet. Something happened that made the world we see today.

There is a correct answer to each of those regardless of what you or I believe. We can argue about it and put out all the points and statistics we want to support our opinion but we have to realize that we are equals. We all die from the same things so we are all equally entitled to having our own opinion and explaining it. We're also all subject to the facts and to being proven wrong.

Ironically, the best rule to apply in such a situation is the Golden Rule. I wonder where THAT came from?

Yeah, the same people whose organization/cult put that movie together also believe handicapped people did something to deserve it.

You know what, people who assume things without basis and misattribute quotes aren't worth talking to.

Chris is right. Chris is always right, even when he's arguing viewpoints opposite to viewpoints that don't exist.

Have fun being right Chris. I'm through with you and your condescending assumptions and your idiotic demands that people not talk about government and religion in the same breath. Sorry for blowing your mind.

Hmm that's interesting yeah I went to site its geared towards people with lot of money like the Body Electric Workshops. Lot of material reminded me of the Handbook to Higher Consciousness which also had workshops. Some of ideas are pretty interesting but I wouldn't pay the dues to belong to it.
I forgot what the actress name was but the main character is that well known and Deaf. Wonder what she did to make that occur if thats what they believe. But many Deaf people just can't hear that all, they don't consider themselves disabled nor handicapped.

Actually Broccoli, it is a right. And according to the NIJ and the GAO, firearms are used 60 times more often to protect lives than to take lives. Also private citizens shoot the wrong person, an innocent mistakenly identified as a criminal, 2% of the time, the "trained" police shoot the wrong person 11% of the time.

I love you too Sunspot.

Oh, I agree fully. I was just pointing out the obvious and for some reason it got people riled at me.

As for the Queen's English (which is actually something different, but people tend to use that phrase interchangeably with "British English", I am Canadian by birth, but my secondary education was here in The States. I am a dual citizen. I try my best to adhere to British English, but I do slip up from time to time and use "American English" (because I was forced to in junior and senior high, and Uni).

LOL, too funny

I am, and have always been, VERY suspicious of any religion or philosophy that denies the crispy, cracklin' goodness of bacon.

That is all.

Not really, the US constitution is a set of laws, one of them being the 'second amendment' which allows individual gun ownership. As such any goverment can repeal or withdraw any of those laws at any time it so chooses.

Now that's not to say that there may not be a huge uprising against it... but the government does have the ability to try these changes.

Remember as well that US citizens are a minority in Second Life now; so what you may class as 'normal' - such as gun ownership - are not necessarily the same for all.

Broccoli

I support all open and honest debate, but I think it's very important to distinguish between ideas and innate characteristics. People are born into their race and sexual preference. It's not a choice they make. Religion, on the other hand, exists purely in the realm of ideas and thought, and while often indoctrinated in people when they're very young, it's purely a choice.

Not exactly. If the requirements for dropping the 2nd amendment are met (ie, the provisions of the constitution relating to amendments), then of course, but that's quite different from saying that the government can do it anytime it chooses.

I agree with you in substance, but realize that many people do NOT agree that, for example, sexual preference is inborn. In my own personal experience as a lesbian leaning woman, that has been the way I experience it, but many people disagree with that, and many religions in particular disagree, so the distinction you're making is, in itself, the subject of hot debate.

Has that been actually proven yet? There have been an equal amount of studies both proving and disproving this over the years. That tells me there has yet to be irrefutable proof in one way or the other.

I'm not meaning to get into a debate about sexual preference but you have to admit that people treat sex about the same as they do religion.

Just look at the arguments over "Broadly Offensive"!

They tend to argue based on feelings and thoughts instead of facts and legitimate science. It's a heated subject that can effect us in the deepest ways...both through the emotional connection one could feel with their partner as well as through the effects sexual abuse has on people.

We've been over this before, Chip, and I like you, so I don't wanna turn this in to a shouting match, but you're wrong.

I wasn't indoctrinated when I was young - I grew up agnostic, moved to atheist, flirted briefly with wicca, before I settled on where I am. The wicca was the closest thing I can think of to a "choice"... Because I knew I was looking for something, and I thought it might be that, so I tried it - and I discovered, fairly quickly, that it wasn't. I couldn't choose to follow a religion. What I believe now is not a choice - it simply is what I believe. I didn't wake up one day and think, "Golly, believing in God would be fun!", and I couldn't wake up tomorrow and say, "You know what? I think I'm gonna worship Vishnu for a while."

Now, I will give a proviso - religion can be a choice, I suppose, in that you can choose how strictly you are going to adhere to the formal doctrines. Going to church or not, that's a choice. I choose not to. Keeping the sabbath holy, not eating a cheeseburger, wearing a burka, erecting a shrine to your grandparents in your living room, or sacrificing a goat to a dark, elder god - those are choices. But if you actually can choose to believe in something or not, you don't honestly believe in it.

MMMmmmmmm Bacon........

Truthfully why does it matter who is attracted to who and why?
The ups and downs of relating to other human beings regardless of gender, sexual orientation are very similar.
The most exploitive people I have met in my life personally were hetrosexual identified but to say all people are like that would be like saying I was attacked by someone of certain race so there fore all people of certain race are bad.
We all have very common similar things more then some people might be brainwashed to believe.
If there is God who really is keeping track of this. Why not leave it up to God to deal with them when judgement day comes? There is no scientific prove God exist but he exist for lot of people.

Oh C'mon squeeze. You know all the World's evils, past, present and future can be blamed in one way or the other on the United States. Even the Spanish Inquisition was started by a Time Traveling American (Probably Republican).

*Am I siding with Squeeze? Jesus, Mary and Joseph say it isn't so.*

Well, when it comes to sexual preference, the root causes are really just a distraction from what absolutely should be debated, which is why some people feel they have some right to prevent others from living as they would choose and to deny them equal rights. Invariably their justifications revolve around things that are purely within the realm of idea and opinion. That's why people have to make up dubious claims such as gay marriage threatening the traditional family. Such ideas should absolutely be debated and not shielded by claims that their foundation rests in something that's sacrosanct. Of course that reflects my own bias which is that everyone should be free to live as they choose as long as they don't infringe that same right in others.

I think you're ascribing some magical power to belief that it simply doesn't have. You're ignoring "why" people believe as they do. No one is born with a belief in a god, or scientific theory, or anything else. Someone has to teach you those things. Nor does deciding you believe something prevent you from later changing your mind.

My rl boyfriend who indentifies as Bisexual and Christian often really bothers me about his view on this too.
He is totally against same sex marriage, is ultra conversative and feels all same sex relationships are based on Lust, and that hetrosexual relationships aren't.
I don't get it personally. Strange thing is he having same sex relationship with me but we haven't had sex in years because I have no interest. I guess perhaps he sees our relationship differently. LOL
I guess next time he says this, I respond hmm I guess no wonder why I am not feeling lustful.

No, I'm not, and I never claimed that one couldn't change a belief.

It's not a magical power. It's simply a statement of fact. You cannot choose to believe anything - that the earth is round, that steel is made of taffy, I don't care. You can think it might be so, you can listen to arguments meant to persuade you one way or the other, you can find "proof" that convinces you, or you could have an epiphany... but none of those are your belief.

Lets put it another way. Lets take something we can both probably agree on - evolution, lets say?

I was taught about evolution by my father, I was taught about evolution in K-12, I was taught about evolution in college, and I've studied evolution on my own. There are gaps in the theory here and there - mankind's knowledge is imperfect, by virtue of us having only been on this earth for a small fraction of her history and the fact that we aren't omniscient, but so far as we've been able to learn, evolution is basically sound.

But that isn't my belief. My belief is that evolution happened/happens, and is probably responsible for every bit of life on earth today. All the data, the research? Just words. I can justify my belief by pointing to this, but many people have been exposed to the exact same data and still don't believe in evolution. Nor could I choose to believe otherwise - I could pretend to believe otherwise, but thats all it would be.

Now this isn't saying that my belief is iron clad. If aliens came down in flying saucers and showed me video footage of them sewing the earth with life 20,000 years ago? I might have to stop and consider my beliefs. But even then it wouldn't ultimately be a choice if I chose to believe them or not.

"Belief" is an unknown. It's that bit of humanity that makes us what we are, or at least it's connected to it. Maybe its a soul, maybe its a complex series of chemical interactions, who knows. But it's a choice. Our choices are shaped by our belief, and what we choose can have an impact on our beliefs indirectly, but what causes a person to believe in something or not - that's deeper. I don't know what it is.

Yeah, I got sucked into this thread even though I tried to resist...

...My point wasn't so much about what is wrong and right about sexual preference. I have my own opinions about that which are beyond the scope of this discussion. It was more to point out the fact (that I think has been proven by some of the responses to it) that sexual orientation is just as hotly debated as religion and treated in a similar manner. Here's why...

--There are people out there trying to scientifically prove they are right but don't seem to be able to indefinitely because their biases on such a far-reaching matter get in the way...regardless of which side they're on.

The results are always questionable any time somoeone sets out to prove something through science when it is looked at with a truly scientific perspective.

--Spiritual/religious beliefs are DEFINITELY a part of the argument of sexuality. For example you can't really compare us to animals' sexual tendancies in many people's eyes because we are spiritually different. For some you can. The subject of "what is natural" is deeply rooted in spiritual belief and ties into "how was the world created?".

--People are trying to prove their point so they can put their belief on others. Just like religion.

People should live and let live. Show your beliefs by executing them in your own life.

So, uh...what was the original point of this thread?