Political correctness

Oh, of course people go burned. But the numbers used by the "burning times" argument are off by a factor of about 180, it wasn't just women burned by a long shot (actually, in some countries, women were a fairly tiny minority of the accused), and it was normally Christians (IE, like-minded thinkers), not the dangerous "heretics" that were burned.

And, ultimately, most of the accused were accused for much more mundane reasons - in Joan of Arcs case, she was a trouble maker, but in most of the witch trials it was fairly petty stuff... spite, jealously, greed, fear, anger and revenge.

Nor was it always burning. Hanging, pressing, and more torturous methods were somewhat common as well, particularly the farther you got from Rome.

you are free to think as you wish.
that does not impact my opinion however.

have a nice life.

i was replying to comments made by whats-his-head, not the op.

Yeah, but happily history proves your opinion wrong, and mine right. So, likewise. Have a nice life.

Wow this thread again.

OP you make valid points but really, you know this isn't the venue for this and you are simply looking to incite folks.

To a Catholic during the time of the rise of Pretestants a "Heretic" was a Christain that wasnt Catholic.

Rather than a Pagan.

Pagans were "Heathens"

Being a Heretic was worse becuase they were spreading lies about God according to the Catholics. While the Heathens were Ignorant, Savages, etc.

Interestingly the supposed Witches were by definition not Pagans - becuase they 'worshiped in the Devil'.

Well, yes and no. Remember the time this was taking place... most of the "pagan" religions had been cooped into Christianity by this point, so Christians tended to look at all other religions as flavors or corruptions of the One True Faith. So any pagan gods were equated to the devil... regardless of if they were or not.

Of course, the problem this created was that many of these coopted faiths didn't just fade away, they lingered on. Theres actually a rather spectacular French movie about the subject, the name escapes me at the moment, but a lot of these people, while "Christian", had incorporated much of the older religions into their version of Christianity. Which was, as you point out, viewed as heretical.

Which is actually more or less my point. The "burning times" wasn't about free thinkers or women or even pagans. On the Church's side of the equation, it was about power and control, but on the local side people were named for relatively petty reasons often enough.

The OP goes to great lengths to castigate religions, regardless of flavor, for indoctrinating the children, but fails to do the same for the biggest indoctrinater of children, the secular government.

I suppose he feels that since the government is not a religion (except to some wacko politicians) it's ok.

ibtl

I dont know how to break this news to you, but I'll just blurt it out....

Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, Monsters under the bed, Goblins, well....... they are all lies your parents told you when you were young..... sorry but it's true.

Darn, now I feel I have destroyed so many spiritural worlds and cultures....

NAh! The Mosters under the bed and the Goblins are real, I used to play with them at night, when the rents were asleep.

*giggles*

No, that there's a double standard when it comes to expression of belief that paints those who offer a dissenting view of religion as uncouth, unkind, and as generally bad people, while expressions of religious belief (which by their very nature are a dissenting view of all other competing relgions and of secular rationalism) aren't characterized that way. Ask yourself why you chose to snarkily dismiss his as an atheist with a capital A rather than address the content of his ideas.

Everyone who professes a belief thinks that everyone who believes differently is wrong, misguided, and even delusional. Not saying that out loud doesn't change that it's a fact, any more than speaking it makes someone less tolerant than anyone else. If you disagree then you're likely applying a double standard - the very one Aleister is railing against. It's ironic that people are quick to label him intolerant yet don't make the slightest attempt to have empathy for his point of view.

We live in a world where religious people give each other a wink and a nod while quietly thinking the other person is going to burn in hell but that they're all better than the atheist. Rational? Tolerant? Not by a long shot, but that's the hypocrisy that political correctness provides cover for.

It doesn't belong in this forum, especially after the other thread was closed, and he could have expressed it in a less provocative way, but as a non-believer I can certainly understand his frustration and anger.

/me joins Har on the road to Agnosticism.

i saw a camper in a white robe, bearing a cross.

is that them?

Nuhuh! I know Father Christmas is real, 'cuz I saw him last year at Christmas time, an we all got the presents we wanted too!

La la la la la la... not listening!

Mari

Depends. Was he wearing a Hood also?

This thread isn't locked yet? FFS. Strife!!

Hey, guys, what are you doing here? Edy's started a thread!

*shrug* This may be true of those you know, but it isn't me.

But it (= Edy's thread) is lagging behind his last one.

BLASPHEMERS!!! There is only 1 true God....



May his Noodley Appendages bless you!!

I'm surprised no one put this one in yet? You folks are losing it!!!

- oh yea! IBTL!!!!

Cannot say it better than Chip did. For the record.

Ali, totally in sync with your frustration, but please do not continue as, truly, this isn't the place (perhaps we should put a Second Life area on the Secular Web?). I value your presence in the forum and hope to continue to read your voice.

no hood. i remember seeing hair.

The Easter Bunny is real though, right?

Love it. LOL real loud. Thanks.

Avanti

I didnt snarkly dismiss his ideas. I said - reptively through three threads now that no one should be telling others what to believe.

I snarkly dismissed the Green cheese metaphor becuase its a stupid metaphor - it has nothing to do with him being an Athiest.

The Capital "A" has nothing to do with it - in my posts I capitalize "Catholic" "Muslim" and "Pagan"



I am applying no double standard. I wouldnt want a Evangelical telling people they arent raising their kids right either. Or a Jesuit.

I wouldnt want a Pagan or a Shinto telling people they are mentally Ill becuase of the Religion.

He JUST got done (in the SECOND locked thread) that people who have any Spirtual beliefs were Mentally ILL.

Thats not telling them they are wrong in their Spirtual beliefs or lack thereof.

I dont care that hes an Athiest. It doesnt matter to me at all. He assumed im Religious but Im not. I just dont think someone should be Preaching Intolerance of a private thing like Religion.

I would have problems with someone preaching Intolerance of a private thing like sexuality as well.



Again I dont think anyone is better than the Athiest. No one knows whats going to happen after we die, its a one way trip.

While he assumed I was religious as it seems you do too, that not really the case.

If anything im a "Pessimist" when it comes to religion.

But Im realistic to know its not Religion that makes people bad. Its people that makes people bad. Teaching religion to kids isnt evil.




Well thats what Im saying.

Im not saying No one should be allowed to discuss the merits of Religeon anywhere. I mean specifically here iin the Forums and Second Life is supposed to have tolerance.

We wouldnt let people habitually Bash Gays, why should we let people Bash Athiests or Christains?


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If in another Venue ..

Aelister wants to take an Op Ed out in the paper or have a Anti-Christain website sure - thats what free speech is.

But then people can bash gays, ethnic groups, in those venues too. .

And likewise people have the right to bash the bashers.
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Now - he took an intentionally confrontational approach in these three threads (2 locked now), so he reaped what he sewed.