Well, I guess Ageplay is now Officially banned

Ahem.....yes you have. Repeatedly.


And I won't even bother myself getting links as your comments are quite easily seen.

Me either, but I watch very very little TV or movies.

Im not contradicitng myself. I am trying to have a discussion on topic about something that happened in Secondlife, I was surprised to see that anyone here would defend having sex with children...but nonetheless, it takes all types.

Lets get back on topic shall we?

Did it just rez into your home?

Nope. I never did. Point to when I did...and I will happily admit my defeat and walk away...in fact lets make a trade. If you find one...I will walk away...if you cant...then you walk away ok?

Nope, we have a thing called a library here, you can borrow the book and read it and then take it back when you are finished.

Ah, on topic, yes good idea.

Go ahead Alice.

LOL! Didn't you say earlier you were leaving?

Oh yes. Borrowed porn negates the whole nasty porn thing. Sure.

You have contradicted yourself. First you say all depictions of sex with children is child porn, then you say you've read Lolita. Then you say that the book is not outlawed where you live. Then you say child pornography is illegal, which it is, of course, but if any depiction of a child engaging in sexual acts is child porno then Lolita is child porn. So how then could Lolita not be outlawed if it's child porn?

No one's defending having sex with children. I can't believe that after all ths time and all these pages you still don't get that. We're (or at least I'm) defending the liberty of consenting adults to do as they wish (yes, even play virtual dress-up) so long as they do not harm others.

Yep.

Anywho, this has been swell (seriously, I don't know why, but I love to argue/debate), but it's late and I must be getting to bed. I'll check back in on this thread in the morning, but I'll be surprised if I find it still open and around.

I just watched the reportage shown on the german TV channel ARD (you can find it at http://www.swr.de/report/-/id=233454/nid=233454/did=2148514/pv=mplayer/vv=big/14lij94/index.html).

It's totally outrageous. Most of the reportage is about avatar sex (between adults, what they fail to mention). According to the interviewed german criminal prosecutors, adult toon sex is a clear offense in this case, punishable with up to 5 years of jailtime. Ageplayers are deemed pedophiles who "direct their own child porn movies" and "train and finetune strategies that help them to easier seduce their prey in RL".

I'm absolutely not into ageplay myself, but every personal freedom that is taken away from us hurts the community as a whole. Who knows what's going to be outlawed next? It could be one of my fetishes, or one of yours.
Calling roleplay between consenting adults a crime automatically leads to outlawing every virtual activity that happens to be illegal in RL: forced roleplay (rape), bestiality, and of course also murder. A vampire draining the blood of his victim? Illegal in RL, probably soon forbidden in virtual worlds (following the logic of german authorities). Millions of virtual murders are commited each day in MMORPGs and online games like Counterstrike. Are we going to imcriminate all of those?

Also outrageous: LL's blog statement that they "will fully cooperate with all appropriate authorities", even in cases of ageplay between adult residents. It's hard to determine the supposed age of an avatar; one has to be a texture artist to add wrinkles or other obvious signs of age, therefore every person (avatar) of short stature looks like a child. LL (and german laws) basically forbid midgets to engage in virtual sexual activities, under the threat of penalty, which happens to be 5 years of detention in Germany. That's discriminating against persons of short stature.

It's almost funny (if it wouldn't be so sad) that the virtual activity which is outlawed in this case is even legal in the real world. Ageplay among adults is legal in RL. No one would prosecute an adult person for wearing a schoolgirl outfit or a pair of diapers in their bedroom. The idea to criminalize anything except real child porn in a virtual world, where not even any real sexual activity is happening, is just laughable.

So I guess some people here wouldn't mind if someone used a AV with their offsprings name & 2yo likeness over a coffee table? Maybe do a bit of photochopping with some pictures downloaded from elementary & kindergarden school websites? After all it's only pixels. Because remember if you want it ok to depict sex with 10yo's then baby rape is ok too.

You're right, that's the definition of a pedophile. And guess what? Being a pedophile isn't illegal. Committing a pedophile crime is. Do you really want to send people to jail for thought crimes? Did you ever think "geez, that guy is so frig'n annoying, I wish I had a gun right now"? Using your logic, that's already a murder. And what about a virtual "murder" commited in an online game? Please try to consider the scope of your accusations.

Besides, think about this: first, only a part (perhaps a minority) of ageplayers engage in sexual activities. The few I know just play a happy family.
Second, people do all sorts of stuff in SL that they'd never even think about in their real life. I shot or stabbed virtual NPC persons in other MMORPGs, without feeling the urge to murder someone.
Third, the few ageplayers who might really match your above definition of pedophiles live their urges in an environment where they don't hurt anyone. Like relieving stress and aggressions by playing a 1st person shooter. Would you really prefer they had no harmless virtual outlet in form of consenting adult cosplayers for their desires?

Yes I do. Where did you get this bullshit? I can't comment on other countries, but in Holland non-lifelike pictures of children engaging in sex are not illegal. Something you seem to have 'accidentally' missed in your wiki-quote. In the Netherlands, child porn is illegal:
1 when it depicts actual sexual abuse of a real child;
2 when it is a picture of a real child altered to look like the child is being sexually abused.

It is only illegal when you can't distinguish the picture of a picture showing real sexual abuse. This means a picture of an eight year old altered to look like he is sucking a penis instead of a lollipop is illegal, while cartoons of kids in whatever circumstances are legal.

Your gross neglect to mention this means the rest of your information is worthless to me. You obviously don't think twice about untruth and inaccuracy as long as you can plead your case.

see thats the bit i dont get .. for months there have been a few ( couple of thousand or so ) residents and their alts crying out to linden labs to do something about ageplay . see now personally i feel sad for those people who cant differentiate between roleplay and real life . im sure once they are done with their hostile attack on ageplayers all over the sims their next target will be hmmm i dunno trekkies ? maybe goreans ? or hows about those of us it the forced fantasy realm of things . linden labs it seems was so quick to come out and say " we are totally against pedophilia " the never bother to

A consider if what was reported actually was pedophilia

and

B consider what ramifications this will have .

unfortunitly for our dear lindens this action has opened the door for people to shut down every major form or role play in second life . heck if i dont like a neko sex sim all i have to do is call my local paper get them to write a store and linden labs will come ban all the users of that sim regardless of their status as verified unverified premium or basic account users .

doesn't that scare the hell out of anyone else ?

on ageplay my opinions are simple . i don't do it but i dont think anyone has the right to stop others from participating . if the two people involved are over the age of consent ( majority of countries its 18+ which is what LL demands to be in mature areas anyway ) then it isnt pedophilia its roleplay . and roleplay is an act of the mind of the imagination . surely LL is not supporting a theme where we regulate what people think ( anyone seen equilibrium )

I work within a small part of the SL fetish comunity which among other things roleplays ( and i say this loudly they PRETEND ) forced sex fantasys , dolcett fantasys and snuff fantasys ) there are a couple of thousand people interested in this sort of play and not one myself included have ever contemplated killing cooking or eating another human being . lets face it the people who actually does those things are going to look for something a little more realistic than pixels and prims

My imediate concern is that LL has painted themselves into a corner created by the ... shall we see supermoral residents of SL . and in doing so have opened the door for a hostile take-over of their entire operation . from this one act they have sent the message loud and clear ...

" dont worry we will never defend what our customers do . threaton us with bad publicity or litigation and we will fold . bring all your issues to us and we will do what you want . aslong as your not one of the sick twisted people "

way to show loyalty LL .. even the white house has the cojounes to step up and defend its people if they are in trouble

Suki * sick twisted anti religion freak just cause i like bondage * usitnov

To bad he didn't get his facts straight...

Using photos for textures without the consent of the person holding the copyrights / intellectual property rights is a crime, or at least an infringement. I could have the textures in question immediately removed by the LL staff.

And baby rape is of course not ok, same as sex with children is not ok and rightfully against the law. Why do people always confuse virtual online activities between adults with real life activities? Again, shooting a 3D toon in Counterstrike isn't murder. Sex in SL is no sex.

This makes sense, of course, but LL are not required by law to police SL and put considerable resources in checking content. I'll say it one more time... users are responsible for content and respecting existing laws.




Legally speaking LL have the right to do whatever they want with content on SL. They can censor you or anyone else as much as they want. That's well within their right and stated in the TOS we sign.

Exactly. Virtual rape might be next. Then gorean roleplay (real slavery instead of a mutual Dom/sub agreement). And furries of course, that's bestiality. How many people have been outraged about goreans and furries? After that, it's the gay's turn. Many "straight" people are totally against the gay lifestyle, and it also happens to be illegal in some countries, among them some federal states of the USA. If SL "crime" = RL crime, and if LL listens to every foreign legal authority, gay sex has to be outlawed in SL too. After that... who knows? Virtual prostitution. Oral sex, masturbation. That's "sodomy" and also illegal in some countries (and US states). Naked women in public? Totally illegal in some muslim countries; even wearing a bikini is against their laws. Or leaving the house without headscarf and veil. Let LL implement all these crazy laws into SL.

There's no end in sight, once they open this legal can of worms.

Maybe we're not going far enough... maybe adult people should have more rl restrictions as well... an adult woman who is under 5'0 tall might look like a child to someone and shouldn't be allowed to have sex...

</sarcasm>

Where will it all end... roleplay is exactly that, roleplay... make roleplay illegal and you are banning people's right to have their own thoughts... i may not agree with what age players do, but i will fight for their right to have their own ideas, as long as they don't break any rl laws...


I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. --Voltaire

problem is the can is open and the worms are a frolicing . unfortunitly we all know LL wont backtrack . they hate to admit they screwed up . and when the first case of ... ban such and such cause you already banned ageplay and thats as illegal as this thing ... comes along they will of course fold . LL doesnt seem to realise that they are infact hosting a comunity . and as rulers of said comunity its their responsibility to respect and defend the wishes of all the residents not just a few who have nothing better to do between bible study and advanced bible study than troll the net looking for stuff to bitch about

lets face it SL is months away from becoming a revival camp

Which laws? German laws? Which country will be threatening to sue next? Iran? Bye bye virtual sex.



The TOS can say whatever it wants, as soon as basic customer rights are violated it won't uphold in court. If your local car dealer has you sign a contract that says he can confiscate your car while keeping your money should you ever dare to smoke a cigarette inside the vehicle, the contract is null and void.
The same is most likely be true for a TOS that says you may buy land for thousands of dollars, but you'll never own it and can be kept from accessing it for arbitrary reasons.

Exactly. Great quote btw. Roleplay is free speech, and free thought. It's "live action book writing". Let's not start to burn books again.