How many others are happy with age verification?

No I'm not saying that they are too stupid - just that it's an age old debate and people bring it up as if they thought of it yesterday...it's old news is what I'm saying.

Please - it is easy to nitpick at people's posts, and I'm having a hard time with some of you holding back I must admit. But seriously, I don't think this thread needs to get into a discussion on the difference between porn and art as if we are all experts on either topic...

People on forums, including myself, really think that they are more insightful then they really are...we all need to get off our high horses, come out of the ivory towers (myself included sometimes) and learn to listen to each other and attempt to see things their way. If only so that when we disagree with them we actually understand their argument rather than the image of it that we are projecting...

haha...the investigators just HAPPENED to dress like the Hellgast from Killzone!

The days of SL as a creative platform are over. You can not have a mainstream product that is not mostly filled with blandness and things that you subjectively seem to think are a waste, because that is ultimately what the average person wants.

There will still be creativity, but the percentage of it will drop and drop and mass consumption will win. At the lowest level, and something that literally everyone can do is shape customization, yet the overwhelming majority of people don't want to express themselves through their shape, they just want to buy one and conform.

Cherish your own creativity and realize that it's the bland masses that are paying to actually keep SL running by buying land to place their cookie cutter house on, not you, your contribution is insignificant in the whole.

If on the other hand - and I think this is actually the case - you simply want to decide and push for your view of what SL should be like, and anything that doesn't confirm to your narrow view of what is worthwhile should dissapear, then you're actually encouraging blandness by stiffling variety and creativity.

Just to get back on track of actually discussing something - I think that the exodus of people that leave because of this age verification thing will be replaced by ten times as many...any thoughts on this?

I also think that companies such as Sony will be FAR stricter with their policies. Can you really see Sony baring the brunt of an article linking them to depictions of rape, snuff, and beastiality? I really don't think so - yet with SL and Linden Labs with a few quick easy steps that we DON'T EVEN KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE YET, you will be verified and satisfying your wildest fantasies.

This is not a bad thing for SL. This is not a bad thing for SL. This is not a bad thing for SL.

If you disagree with that statement whole-heartedly then you have every right to leave in protest - I won't miss you (or your sims that will be replaced by others just as talented - plus we get nice new prims soon ), and you WILL be replaced by the mainstream who are just getting ready to come onboard.

Not a chance. Identity verification will put plenty off people from joining in the first place. That may or may not be a good thing generally but a hell of a lot of people are going to look at a request to provide their passport or national id number and think "Not bloody likely". New players especially, who in their right mind is going to signup to something new and part with such personal details to something they're unsure about?

Simply not going to happen.

That quote is completely missing ALL of my points so far. I don't want SL to conform - but I am allowed to have my thoughts on what would make it better. I have stated MORE THAN ONCE that I don't want sex and ultra-violence to disappear from SL, just for people to know that there is a whole world out there. I have stated more than once that I think everyone can do what they want to...

The attention that Second Life is starting to gain from the museum and heritage sectors is growing rapidly - education and cultural interpretation will be a booming sector in virtual worlds either here or on another platform. I DON'T care whether it is SL or not, it is the technology and its possibilities for human interaction and the interpretation of the human condition that I am interested in...

I disagree, and I think you will be proven wrong. However, NEITHER of us knows for sure until it happens - so lets both stop talking as if we do know for sure. I have my opinions and you have yours...

Also, are you simply spouting mis-information?

Please tell me where it is said that you will have to provide passport numbers, social security numbers?

From what I understand they check against public records your zip code, name, and address. Anybody with access to the local registrars office can do the same WITHOUT your consent. Ever wonder how debt collectors track people down? you don't have to provide people with that information it is already there - they are simply checking what you say against what they already have.

This is what I understand it to be...I may be wrong. But I haven't seen a shred of evidence that it will consist of social security numbers (except maybe the last few digits, if anything) or passport numbers (which when travelling through India I had to hand over to every hotel we stayed at...I am still here and so is my identity).

So why did you ask for opinions about it and put forth your opinion? Oh with you now, I didn't put an in my opinion.

I'll tell you this, if I'd been asked for such details back in March, I wouldn't be here. That was before I even knew there was adult content on here, I had no idea what to expect and I sure as hell wouldn't have bothered exploring if I'd known this was coming.

If my credit card is good enough to pay my premium membership and buy Lindens for an 18+ game, then that is a symbol of a contract between myself and LL that I am over 18. They should not be authorising payments from me if they don't believe I'm 18. There's a hell of a lot of hypocrisy over their decision which leads me to believe that they're not actually bothered about age, it's identification they want. Which in turn brings me back to them accepting payments from my credit card company whom have my name, address and age details.

Sorry went off on a tangent there!

Uhm... I didn't quote you, so I'm not sure why you'd think my post was directed at you.

There is a difference between what you have said here and what you said before.

Ive yet to meet the genius so mind numbingly intelligent that Im unable to follow their reasoning.

You are right that this thread isnt the place to debate porn vs art. But a couple of posters threw that in the arena by looking down on the sex in Second Life, some continued by hinting that those who do have sex in Second Life are somehow less in their Real Life.

Now - its a different thing to say that a lot of the sexually themed places in Second Life are crass and tacky, they are. There are some horribly bad builds and they are using sex in an attempt only to profit. They are built on the high traffic, no need for quality model.

I can see an interest in having less of those places around. Its interesting though that becuase of the way Second Life is set up those places prosper, while smarter sex places, and even well done sex service businesses do not suceed.

As far as creativity goes - the attempt to simulate actual human sexuality has led to some pretty good creations. Its also led to some pretty low quality items.

Much the same way as clothing , or prefab housing, or you name it.

Im all for a call for less Tackiness in Second Life and more thought - I think a practical way to aid that would be to eliminate the traffic metric.

Verification will reduce community size over-all it might help reduce high traffic business's apeal im not sure that is really the best way to go about it.

I see Verification as primarily a Legal and PR necessity for Linden Labs, any changes to the SL landscape will be side effects.

Sorry Kitty - misread your quote and thought it was directed at me.

Colette - we seem to agree on some things then, tacky profiteering sex sims are not interesting or enhance SL anymore than they do the internet. We still love to have them around, if only to have an example of what not to build

We are all starting to get very passive aggressive and ego-maniacal..and speaking of ego, I think I'm the only one to actually admit that I am not infallible and can be wrong and arrogant on forums. I am self-aware of both my position and how it can change over time, as well as the fact that not everything I write in the space of thirty seconds stream-of-consciousness will be perfectly reasoned or not contradictory to previous statements...

So can we drop it now?

I still think SL will benefit from more culturally oriented areas, be it religion, politics, history, art, language, science, sport, etc. etc. everything else other than another bloody sex sim...at least make a good one if you are going to.

Interesting your thoughts on traffic metric - I think it should be changed to be number of unique visitors PERIOD.

Not how long people have stayed/camped there, just unique visits per day...otherwise how would you rank them in search? Something to consider and I think it needs to be overhauled as well.

Oh, and because I am interested still in this question -

Please tell me where it is said that you will have to provide passport numbers, social security numbers?

And please tell me how this is different to me having to hand over my passport number to countless random hostel owners in India? If people want to steal your identity they have enough information from your TRASH to do so - you want to be paranoid, but I bet hardly anybody who is complaining shreds all of their paper waste right?

Yeah, I figured out early on that I had better results with searches when I sorted my results so I started with the entries with the least traffic.

I'm starting to think the issue may not so much be the idea that most people want generic builds and activities so much as the ones that make these generic builds and activities are able to target a wide range of people better than the person with the super-styled up metropolis sim or the crazy abstract sim.

My experience has shown me that a good number of the owners/creators of the more artistic/creative builds don't want just ANYONE at their land. They end up doing certain things (whether on purpose or just by their general attitude) that actually make people feel less welcome there than at the generic places with camping and free money and whatnot. A lot of these builds don't last too long or are made by someone that isn't interested in profit and has the resources to keep putting money into their property.

Regardless of what we feel is "tasteful sex" vs. "riff raff" we can all agree that there wouldn't be as many tacky builds if no one went there.

hmmm...

Wait...we actually agree on something! These are actually the very places I've been referring to!! NO WAY!!!

As far as "smarter", that may be debateable. It kinda goes into my other post, but the tacky places seem to have more of a business head to them (how ethical and tidy this business head might be is up for debate). Maybe it's because they spend so little time on design and production and so much more on generating business.

Some of the best builds I've ever been to failed miserably because the person in charge was a creative genius but financially inept and had no head for business.

I don't care if personal information will be locked up in Fort Knox. I'm still not happy with the economic effects this could have.

I too am in support of age verification. However, it depends on how far it goes. There's some art out there that could be offensive or have nudity or excessive violence yet still have an important artistic point. I hope the "adult" determination is only used for things which feature stuff _with a deliberate purpose to arouse_ (which would exclude skin demos etc) i.e. hardcore primsex and bondage/gorean stuff, and the "excessive violence" reserved for things such as realistic torture and killings (i.e. snuff rp.)

You are not alone in your view that primsex has deteriorated the value of SL for other uses. From what I gather from having read interviews with LL employees (including Teh Philip himself) this is more or less the unofficial stance of LL. Sex is everywhere and disrupts much, where under the new system it will without a doubt be reduced and rezoned into "red light" districts.



I'm calling you on this. This is either an obvious attempt to troll or you have no real experience with nonreligious people and think you can sneak by such a flame without being called on it.

uh...I always thought calling someone out also involved explaining why that person was BSing...

I want to hear where you're going with this, Captain!

If you want to be ID verified that is the sort of information you must provide to prove you're eighteen. An Indian hostel owner shouldn't be storing your details anyway, hey I wouldn't complain if they said I could drive down to Brighton and show someone in their UK office my passport.

Actually I shred all letters and receipts that have any identifying information on them. Paper shredders are cheap these days.

Well it is bullshit because the person I replied to basically tried to categorize the unreligious into a very narrow segment, when from personal experience and being unreligious myself, I find that the unreligious are very diverse in "age-range, social status, and job description." So he/she is either a troll or completely uninformed and an asshat either way.

Has anybody from Linden Labs said this? Where?

Not saying it isn't true - but something more than conjecture would be good. They can get that proof of age by cross-checking your date of birth, driving license, and address...don't see a passport needed there.

I just think that this whole passport/whole social security number is a myth...I want proof otherwise.

And I'm glad you shred your documents and mail, you should - and so should everybody else. If you are worried about age verification and don't shred EVERYTHING with your name and address on it then you are a fool.

Unreligion is the new religion - haven't you noticed?

Even Richard Dawkins, a man I used to respect when I studied his work years ago on memes has lost the plot and gone all fundamentalist on everyone

"We will shortly begin beta testing an age and identity verification system, which will allow Residents to provide a one-time proof of identity (such as a driver’s license, passport or ID card) and have that identity verified in a matter of moments."

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/04/age-and-indentity-verification-in-second-life/

They also said something about US residents providing the last four digits of their SSN. It's people outside the US who will need passports, national ID cards and driving licence information and I fail to see how that stops a minor verifying anymore than credit card does.

I dont want to give away one digit of my SSN to ANY company. Atleast with my credit card I have identity theft-insurance! >> So, does it look like I will be playing a new virtual world? Wait, are there any other VW's that are mac compatible?

I'm all for it tbh. I'm just against the way LL are going about it- head first without any thought as per. LL are well documented on the net for awful security. The 3rd party they want to use have an awful reputation for selling details. Why would a game need Passport, SS numbers, NI numbers, Driving Licence details etc? If anyone can give me a valid reason why they need those kind of details, when hard adult sites only need (and fully legaly) you to enter your DoB in to have full access.

forget the arguement 'you must have something to hide' Not at all. Other than I dont want my identity to be subject to theft. I pay taxes, I vote. I have nothing to hide but I dont trust LL's security or integrity as far as I could throw it, and as for the 3rd party, do your own research on them.

This sudden age crap has nothing to do with with our age. Look at the bigger picture!

Um... Sir? You do realize that you don't HAVE to verify, right? They're not forcing you to do so.