How many others are happy with age verification?

There we go...an actual opinion given without insults and accusations...almost!

I personally don't really care either way about sexual content in SL...as I've BEEN saying it doesn't effect me at all except for the fact that a lot of it is unimaginative and corny to me.

I'd just like to see more creativity arise from the ashes of the impending Age Verification bomb.

Those $Ls you buy from another source still go to LL in one way or another. The only way around that is to not spend any more money at all!

Well this bomb may blow harder then you think.

I have a gallery. There are some nudes in it (upstairs in a room, visitors are warned with a note for the nudity). One of the pictures show two women, one full nude.. the other in lingery. Everyone who saw this picture complimented me on it and told me it was piece of art. But I see myself forced to remove that picture (and others). This because it is completely unclear what is okay and what not... and Linden is going to judge things case by case.

Age verification is no problem for me (I was born 1965). But I cannot verify they way Linden wants me (see earlier in this thread), so I have to remove what I thought was one things I loved in SL... making pictures.

Morwen.

It just bugs me to see other people be so intolerant of people's beliefs simply because they perceive those belief's as intolerant themselves. Two wrong don't make a right (wow that's the second time I've used that tonight I need new material! hehe ). I can understand why people may have negative feelings towards religion be it organised or not but, like you Morwen, I believe in live and let live. If other people want to be small minded, I just let them. Ultimately its their loss and I can never see justification for lowering myself to that level. I have a lot of respect for people who have strong religious conviction, not all as there are always a narrow minded section in any community, even though I lack that conviction myself. I have gay friends and I have friends who are quite devout Christians, none of them have a problem with each other, they may disagree but they are respectful of one another's opinions, were they not, I seriously doubt any of them would be my friends! No section of society should be lumped in with the small minded minority within its ranks be it religious, political, sexual or racial. A little tolerance goes a long way.

the unimaginative stuff is created by people whod be uncreative at everything else too lol

True enough. Maybe they'll buy a mech suit from me!

I am an agnostic. Figure it's the safest course - I don't know, but I'm as good as I can be.

I welcome religion in Second Life. Religion in various forms has existed since we have existed. No reason why it shouldn't be in our virtual world as well. Build churches, have virtual bible groups, virtual meditation gatherings, whatever. Just as long as it is something "optional" to everyone and not forced on anyone - who cares? Free speech is free speech - and I believe in it for everyone, even people I don't like very much. If I protest free speech for those I don't like - then what's to say I shouldn't have free speech because they don't like me?

But NONE of this has anything to do with age verification. You can build anything you want in SL. You can visit any museum or church or whatever you want in SL. (At least, right now you can.) If your "cultural" or "religious" pursuit isn't getting visitors or participators, that's not going to change due to so-called age verification. More people aren't going to flood to your PG attraction because they refuse to verify to enter "Adult" areas. People who enjoy going to PG attractions now, will continue to do so. People who don't, won't.

The nature of a person is not going to change due to age verification. The nature of the community will. There will be a lot less people around. Including me - who likes to visit both nude beaches AND art museums.

Noticing some sort of equation whereby people who enjoy SL sex cannot be creative... I find it a bit odd though when one considers some of the more hedonistic members of the artistic/literary community over the long years.

I find it funny how this guy considers people like me, who created entire themed RP sims from scratch, based on nothing, just ideas from our heads, to not be creative,
I created a very original and popular sim, without ANY of the second life stereotypes *dance pads/prize chairs/camping crap*, and the first ever "realism" RP sim, *no mechs, nothing that doesn't currently exist*,
His mechs are pretty, nicely built, my sim is one of the best built and put together places in SL, because it has a violent element and a sex element, it's uncreative to him, makes no sense.

Your point of view stems from a Modernist view of art. These artists believed that art can apprehend some degree of truth in meaning and decry other art for not being progressive toward that end. The fly in the ointment here when trying to "progress" is "whose truth is the correct truth?"

I don't think that whether or not something is "good" should even be a part of the conversation regarding whether or not something should be allowed. Just because you can say whether or not something is "porn" doesn't make it so.

(Actually, I think I'm jumping the gun, so I'm retracting the trolling part.)

heh

Byron
Keats
Rubins
Picasso
Green


Just off the top of my head.

No one important though

So true. It is giving and taking .

May I give you three examples of strong memories I have connected to religion... one bad (well kind bad, but kinda funny from the other side) , one really bad and one that made me feel good?

The first happened just after I met my current partner (and with who I found what I really needed and desired truly in my life). It was a sunny day... and I was so full of love. Butterflies and anything that belongs to it .
So I came home from work and I had to do some shoppings. And there I saw her, the one that really turned me up side down. I did run to her, jumped in her arms, kissed her, hold close to me.... and then this priest came running up to us, telling us angry how we dared to do this in front of God's House? Doh... I wasn't even aware we were near a church... and stupid stupid me, I went into a full argument with this priest... while behind my girlfriend almost rolled over the ground from laughing....
We had good laughs afterwards about this incedent.

Then the really bad one. We live in a very small town... basically a church, a baker and a café.... and some houses around it.
This certain saturday morning the frontdoor bell ranged. There was the local priest. To make a long story short. He came to tell us that we were not welcome in this community and that our present there was not fitted.
I never saw my girlfriend remove someone from our house with so "frozen" emotions. It was disgusting that he dared to come to us about this
And yes, we had a hard time to become part of the community (not the religous one). But we managed to do so.

And as last, the one that made me feel good.
When my father died, he had choisen for a Catholic funeral. So this very young Polish priest did the ceremony.
You must know, in Dutch we have different ways to address people who close to us (friends and alike) or people we own respect (God in this matter).
But he addressed God in the way for those that are close to you (which was very uncommon). It touched me... he saw God as a friend and not something far above him.
And.... before the funeral I ahd some talks with this young priest. A very nice man. After the ceremony he came to me and gave me hug... in all his offical robes he hugged me. I was never before hugged by a priest... but that was honest hug!!!

There.... some of my experiences with religion...

Okay, lets go back to slaughter each other over SL matters

Morwen.

It's amazing how dismissive this post is when it's whole point is how I'm being dismissive of other opinions.

What I'm talking about is using the same played-out mechanisms over and over. When a singer or rapper is lacking in creativity they tend to go to the booty shaking, popular formula because sex sells. There are plenty of songs that explore love and sexuality in creative and expressive ways. These pieces are unique and strive to use methods not previously explored. To me that is what creativity is.

I'm not saying BY ANY MEANS that anything with sexual content is automatically not creative. That would be ridiculous! I'm saying that MOST sexual material in SL is solely made for people to get off to and has little or no creative merit to it.

I find it funny how you automatically assume I'm referring to "people like you". I don't remember calling you out by name as being someone that makes derivitive material using sexuality as an attention-getting device.

Aren't we being a little defensive?

I tried to retract the trolling part before you went off, but you got it just as I corrected it. Sorry about that, I thought I was at SecondCitizen. Heh. Heh.

My point is that making a judgment call about what is and what isn't creative shouldn't even be a part of the conversation regarding whether or not people should be allowed to create it. Postmodernity has taught us that nothing is truly original, but is an amalgamation of preexisting parts. Just because I may personally think Britney Spears is a trite pool of pop tepidity, that doesn't mean that her art isn't genius to someone else in the way it brings together every hackneyed trick in order to make a fortune from dumb kids. Everything will always be low-brow to someone else. Imposing valuative judgments into discussions of policy is only inviting a backlash (which is exactly what is happening now by LL asking us to draw a line between mature and adult). This will not end well.

-- Asking this question will show you what I mean:

How is porn NOT art?

I have a question. And no disrespect to those who hold this viewpoint, and I confess that I'm an SL sex virgin, so that's not a driving force in my being in SL or defending the rights of those to have sex in SL, but...

Regarding the quote above, the same can be said regarding spam. You want to combat a true waste of bits, bytes, 1s, 0s and bandwidth -- fight the crusade against spam. Why fight what you deem as wasted space in a world where people are exploring and having fun doing THEIR thing?

And to take the quoted argument above, if people weren't so lonely and desperate for human connection, they wouldn't click on the spam thereby encouraging its proliferation.

So what are you doing about the true waste of space and bandwidth?

Because guess what? Sex IS the oldest industry in the world and it's not going to go away. Even in the holiest and purest environments, sooner or later, it's there.

Maybe I'm too much of an idealist but why can't people just let others do what they want provided it's not crammed down their throat (unless they like that sort of thing).

Peace

PS:



What's stopping people from bringing more education and culture to SL now?

Porn is meant to arouse someone so they can get off. Art is meant to provoke thought and invoke emotions and feelings.

What's interesting to me is that people seem to think that there are a lot of creative sex industry builds when there are only, in fact, a few compared to the ones whose point is simply to make money and get someone off.

Also, you speak of Post-modernism's idea that "there is nothing new under the sun". I'm not denying that it's all been done before in one way or another. However, I don't think that is as important as the ATTEMPT to make something new and contribute something new through one's work. The actual content is subjective to the consumer's tastes but the mechanisms one uses to make their pieces are what defines their "creativity" and "originality".

Every adult in a particular culture has some idea as to what the common mechanisms are in the media around them. If you're wanting to be creative you will make the attempt to avoid the common mechanisms or use these mechanisms in a unique way to convey whatever it is you're trying to convey.

If you're simply going for appeal and/or attention then you will use the pre-existing mechanisms in the way they have been used traditionally.

Wow, I really never thought this thread would garner such a response - I read through everything but I really don't want to quote you all so some thoughts once more from the OP...

1) I am not an American. Nuff said for that theory...

2) I think the issue here seems to be with the age verification process right? That it is held by a third party. Also that you think we are somehow wanting to stomp on your rights as free human beings...nothing could be farther from the truth, my point was that I would like to see what talented people can do with this technology once sex is no longer the focus.

3) People are GROSSLY overestimating I feel what will be flagged as 'adult' - somebody mentioned that my own museums contain violent images...could you please point them out to me because I can't see them. The most violent image I have is of an individual in a state of possession who is pushing a needle up against his cheek (yes he pushes it through, no the picture is not overtly graphic). This image is backed up with a text example of why this is occuring and the cultural context in which it happens. Honestly, I don't think that my site will be flagged as excessively violent for that one image. Added to this, no I don't have an image of a crucifix anywhere (once more, I am not a Christian) - and neither would that be deemed excessive violence either. What I feel they are targeting are snuff sims, cooking people and eating them, rape etc.

4) YOU WILL STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. I never wanted to take that away, I just think that a lot of people will look elsewhere, particularly for the first few days/weeks after joining a free account before they are age verified. They will see the breadth of different experiences that SL offers.

5) Well done for those of you who have created 'the best sims on SL' - really glad for you and commend your hard work and success. If they are that good, people will age verify for them if they have to. The fact that you are leaving in 'protest' I think is very short-sighted for what is becoming a very prevalent technology and you are obviously talented at using it.

6) I'm not saying that sex sites can't be creative - I'm not a fascist with a smile, an elitist, or a hardcore conservative - but if you call 'Bukkake, please rape me I'm a poor schoolgirl' a true representation of human creativity then I'm not going to argue with you - philosophically you could definately argue the point, but we all know you are just using semantics and deconstruction to escape the fact that it is what it is...call me want you want to, but I know what I want to see and I am making that.

7) People will be driven away who use both adult and non-adult content? If they are driven away more will come, many more, millions more...you aren't that important nor are all of your thousands of friends. Please, don't let the revolving door hit you on the way out...

So that last one was a bit vindictive, but start a topic with the word 'religion' somewhere in there and people presume you are a homophobic-fascist-bible-basher from Westboro. I call that ignorance and I hope that all of you who voiced such opinions WITHOUT backing them up calmly and with reason leave and don't come back....but that's just my personal opinion.

Feel free to disagree - it's all about being who you are and letting others do the same.

One man's porn is another man's art.

I would finally like to add that for all of you who are afraid of the possible consequences of handing over important information to third parties, I understand and am sympathetic.

I'm afraid of Big Brother as much as anybody else, I also understand how that information could be used against you...there needs to be a better way to do it. However, all that is happening is doom-saying and wild proposition - you don't know that such things will occur, and no matter how many times you are reassured you won't be convinced.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that somebody isn't out to get you - sure - but doom-saying is almost an internet forum tradition...you all seem to expect the worst and can't even CONTEMPLATE possible benefits of doing so.

The sky is not falling, pigs are not flying, and your life is not being hijacked by rampant junk mail because some company sold your details to another one...

If you only knew how many times that was happening to you already...Where exactly do you think all of your junk mail that is addressed to you comes from?

Porn vs. Art is a debate that has been argued and argued by people far more intelligent and insightful than ANYBODY on these boards...good luck trying to add to that one.

There is no answer as to where the line is drawn, that's the problem. But we are living in LL world and they get to decide - that's all there is to it, move somewhere else and the same thing WILL happen there...don't think it won't.

*laughs*

So you are basically saying this entire forums community is too stupid and lacks the vision to discuss such an issue?

I wonder why you felt the need to make such a comment.

Hey, you know how Sony et al are all making their own versions of virtual reality, "Home", etc? What if SONY paid those German reporters to "investigate?" LOL...