Ageplay.. whats allowed and whats not?

Oh I agree and sympathise entirely Conan. I didn't mean to send up your idea, and I did understand your arbitrary period also.
I wonder if this is such a widespread problem as it appears though or are we merely fluffing it up as a conversation point? Is it mainly a knee-jerk response to the German action of recent?

Whatever else is said, a plot owner by definition must still have the last word in who and what is allowed on their land, regardless of how mis-informed or myopic that owner may be. And as far as ordinary residents hostility to child avatars, these pages have witnessed the same to submissives, furries and others.

It's intolerance. How can you force tolerance on the intolerant?

Until recently I have been ambivalent towards Child Play, as with most RP, whatever you are into doesn't bother me. a couple of my good friends are into Vamp, out of deference to me they usually are in "Normal" mode when visiting me at Home or in a Public Area, not that I ask them too. Interacting with Furries was a bit strange at first, but it's no big deal. Yesterday at a shopping area a couple of Mistresses were talking about buying an outfit for a sub...who was hogtied and gagged at their feet. I just chuckled and continued shopping. My first contact with SL Yougsters was this weekend at a ;ittle forum Meet and Greet at my place. It took a minute or two to get used to it, but I found the kids to be absoulutely adorable! (Hi Mari). The kidspeak was utterly charming, I quickly fell into it, watching my open chat language, etc. It was so much fun. Anyone who is offended or annoyed by Child Avi's in public just being Children is either a miserable child hater in RL or maybe has some darker issues that need to be dealt with. Someone mentioned ARing Child Players for childspeak in open chat. You get a big Humbug! from me. I hope a child AR's you for "Adultspeak" in open chat. Let the Children Play.

The problem is perhaps stemming from the fact that child avatars are relatively rare, certainly compared to Furries. After a couple of months in SL Furries are barely noticable as 'usual' anymoe, but there's not that many kids about. So for many residents child-porn is the only connection that springs to mind when they see one. Not sure what could be done about that, but I think it's a factor.

I'm having images of the classic film "Village of the Damned"

*waves at Brenda*

I had the same thoughts. *shivers*

Mandy C

God forbid that avatars should start looking like our real selves. Personally, I'm quite a looker in RL, but I've seen some of the ugly RL mugs of other people that live here

Social engineering works, and can change attitudes. It takes time and is a slow gradual process.

Look at it this way; as little as 50 years ago racism was not only the norm, it was socially acceptable to be open about it. Nowadays, there are still a lot of racists out there - probably many more who are quietly racist inside the privacy of their own heads than will ever let on in public - but the point is that social mores have changed to the point that it is now unacceptable to abuse people from ethnic minorities in the street. Even if a lot of people are thinking it, we don't say it anymore, and that's a big leap.

Precisely my point. Making them a familliar sight, far from breeding contempt, will breed tolerance in the majority. Look at the great accomplishments that have been made in making ugly people acceptable in polite society.

Interesting idea. But I think the Majority doesn't need tolerance bred into them. A few miserable jerks aren't going to have their minds changed in my opinion. But I could be fun to see.

Your premise is great. Someone has already mentioned racism, and the same is true for the progress that the gay community has made. It's easy to fear the unknown, it's better to get to know what people are really like.

I also agree with the opinion that forcing people to spend some time as child avatars won't work. What ever experience they have, which may or may not include discrimination, it's too easy to dismiss as only applying to the newbie child avatars.

A better solution would be for the child av community itself to work on PR. Maybe they could put together groups to visit popular malls or other destinations, talk with visitors, hand out info cards to those who want one, etc. They'd probably want to check with the mall owners first, and pick places wisely.

You're right, trying to "legislate" to change an attitude doesn't work unless the seeds of change are already there; there is an arguement that without the few white sympathisers in the 1950s, Dr Luther-Kings' civil rights movement would have taken much longer to achieve what it did.

Part of the problem is the hysteria surrounding sexual ageplay. Perhaps if we can address that issue and try to calm people down and get a bit of perspective we can move forward.

If I can extrapolate the issue to compare it to a real-world issude.........
I don't know about other countries, but in RL the over-the-top media coverage surrounding paedophilia here in the Uk has mean't that so many wholesome child/adult interractions (for example: teacher/pupil interaction or wholesome organisations such as the scouting movement)have been stymied due to well-meaning adults who want to engage with young people are terrified of their actions being misconstrued. Consequently, we have a generation of young people growing up, many of whom are not properly adjusted into society because they have not had sufficient interraction with adult rolemodels (parents are all well and good, but I firmly believe that children need rolemodels outside of the family home inorder to develop to their maximum potential socially).

I'm going off at a tangent here, so I'm going to try and bring it back in a topic-wards direction now.....in summary we need to quash the hysteria around sexual ageplay so that it doesn't create an environment where wholesome activities are not going to be tarred with the same brush so to speak.

Hi back! Glad ya enjoyed it! It was super nice to meet everybuggy, too! I wish I coulda spended more time, but it was gtettin awful close to din din for me. An ya, I tink most folks, when they meet us an really get past the initial fears (I think we've seen some of that on this thread, as far as what those fears might be an stuff), they end up seein' dat we're purty much harmless an stuff.



I agree. I am all for more visibility of child avatars. Of course, we also have a bit of a catch-22, too. A lotta us don't get out into public spaces much, because we get tired of being griefed, having pointless ARs thrown at us, or just called rude names. Then, because we aren't all that visible in these areas, we end up being viewed as suspicious, so we don't go there... etc. 'course, the other problem is dat if someone just spends their in-world time at the clubs and casinos, then you're not all that likely to see us kids either.

Mari

No, I don't support them. But the reality is that it *does* happen, and that the general rule of Second Life is that - if they own the land - then they *do* have the right to do this, if they want to.

I agree that it's wrong to ban someone from an area just because of their avatar (in most cases, at least), but equally, if you are banned from an area you would like to visit then complaining about how wrong the owner is to do that kind of thing probably will not get you unbanned. So I'm trying to work out something that might.



If there were slaves, subs, and Goreans posting on this board complaining that they had been banned from areas they wanted to visit because they were slaves, subs, or Goreans, then I would be thinking about what could be done to make them more acceptable to landowners, yes. That wouldn't mean banning them.

Landowners should have the right to ban anyone for any reason. Most use that power judisciously. Those that don't. well enjoy your isolation I guess. I don't have time to waste on small minded idiots. There are plenty of places to go.

If we're not careful, this tragic disease could begin to afflict SL children too.
Stop the madness please!! Won't someone think of the children!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFZz6ICzpjI

There are.
I've counted (Including myself) at least five slaves and slave owners Posting here. The thing you will find with a great many of us is we tend to be more circumspect on other persons properties. We expect others to respect our rules when they are on our lands, and because of this, we are generally respectful of the rules of the sims we visit. When i am Visiting someplace with my Girl, She Dresses appropriately to the sim we are visiting. She only Kneels when i Sit. She does address me as Mistress, But, we almost never have anyone Question us on that as our behaviour in general is Courteous and Respectful. Respect, and Courtesy are two Way streets. If you expect to receive, then you should be equally prepared to Give.

Angel.

I owned a slave for about a week. I wan't very good as a master - I kept asking if it was okay for me to tell my slave to do certain things. It wasn't really me.

Those collars are fun though. I had only to say /dance and she danced whether she wanted to or not. All good fun.

It's off Topic But i have to say it takes a Great deal of character to admit one isn't cut out for the life. Much more than those who are obviously not, and yet stick to it tenaciously.
By Setting it aside you did what was best for your slave, and put selfish motives aside. That says a Lot for you as a Person.

Angel.

Well, from what I been told it's really the Slaves who run Gor. They just let the men think they are in charge.

Innit dat what it all should boil down to?

Mari

Exactly, Angelique - you have the way you prefer to play, but if the owner of a place you're going objects to it, you won't do it there.

In the case of child avatars, though, I imagine it's a bit tricker because although it's perfectly possibly to switch to an adult avatar whenever they're on a parcel that objects, I think many consider that being a child is part of their "character" - not just an activity that they do sometimes and can stop when convenient. It's a bit like the "racism" argument there was here about, oh, a year or more ago...

The vast majority of SL isnt character dependant though.

The Roleplay intensive sims (gor, modern, dragon, fantasy w/e) should be alowed to say "no child avs in our roleplay" and the Child roleplayers can just avoid those spots.

But in places where theres no real role play "theme" I dont see the issue particularily. Unless like you mentioned the land owner is afraid of child avatars, etc.

People should be allowed to ban Child Avs, or Slave girls, or nudity , or whatever. But Places that are open to all, should accept ALL includes child roleplayers too.

Seems to me, if one wants to roleplay a child, one would take as part of the RP not being allowed as a child into places where most people would agree a "child" really should not go:

Mistress Paine (putting down her whip for a moment): Dear, this is no place for children. Where's your mommy?

Child Av: .....

Mistress Paine: Well go find her, and don't come here again. Children aren't allowed here, you know. (Resumes whatever that was she was doing with the whip.)

Makes sense to me.

On the other hand, the proprietor of a place where children might be a normal phenomenon, certainly any PG area, strikes me as overwrought at the least if they are banning child avs.

The irony is that, by and large, most child avatars dun go to places where they wouldn't be welcome anyway. I'm not going to go to sex places, or casinos, or escort places, or stuff. Not my interest. If I ended up in one for whatever reason (say, a drop point in a sim being in a bad spot, or an old LM that now goes somewhere I really would rahter not be), then I'm gonna turn tail. I might even have a RP moment like what is deascribed.

The problem seems to be, hoever, that most of the folks who own such places where that sorta moment would happen are also the people who seem less likely to have the itchy trigger finger with child avatars.

It's when were out in the public spaces that we run into the most difficulties, ya know? heck, more often or not it's not even the actual land-owners of some of the places (who, yes, do have the right to restrict anyone they wish to , for being kids, or slaves, or blue, or blingtards, or whatever), but people sending in ARs when they come acrosss kid avvies, or orbiting/shooting at/etc. kid avvies, or whatever.



Like all groups, there is no easy way to categorize the whole of kid-dom. I spend 99.44% of my time in a kid avvie (I am a crow, or a dragon, or a dryad, or a coupel other avvies <1 time a month). Others I know spend a roughly 50/50 ortion of their time going between kid and avvie - one friend, for example, maintains a marriage as her adult self, while having family RP as her child self, without using alts. More than I could manage. Finally, some also play a kid rarely, but do sometimes feel the urge to "go kid" for a while.

An ya, for me, I'm not going to change avatars for someones comfort, any more than I'm going to compromise my RL self for others' comfort. Maybe even more so in-world, given SL being a place where we can be who or what we wish to be without the constraints of First Life boundaries.

Mari

/me sighs......Once again, a group of Gemans have turned the world into turmoil.

My oversimplified view: You see a kid where they don't belong, doing something they should not do, ask them to leave, kick them out, report them. Otherwise do what you do in RL with kids. Either ignore them or steal their lollipops.