Ageplay.. whats allowed and whats not?

i really do appreciate your advice Ranma. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post even tho my words were somewhat hostile. But i think the point im making is being lost. My avatar has always been 5'8'' and this is the first time ive ever been attacked for being "short" Really my avatar isnt that short im only 5'3'' in rl. Anyway. i was at a friends pool party surrounded by my closest friends. Its not a fluke or coincidence this happened to me tonight and its very very troubling to me. I never agrued back with the person attacking me. I apologized and made my excuses to leave while i was being attacked for 10 minutes. Totally unprovoked. Never met the person before in my life. I wasnt even being very outgoing or loud to begin with to draw attention to myself at all. If you suggest i only stay on my property from now on i think thats pretty sad i cant even venture out into the world to go to a friends pool party. I dont wanna build an underground bunker to lock myself away because im not an amazon. i just wanna live my second life without being attacked for my height . . is that really so much to ask?

I understand where you are coming from. My Avatar is 5'8" and I use to have one at 5' even but was getting too many people asking me if I was a child or what was my age. I am beginning to think that the Linden message is being taken as a "license" to grief. I am positive this is not true!
My statement about being on ones own land is not "bunker" mentality by sound precautions. When I was new to second life, I use to explore the "new" continant or the second one without restraint. As time went on, I discovered the joys and advantages of being in private sims. I was being stalked by an another resident when found the sim "Ambertown". The owner of the sim Andy Sieyes made short work of the offending resident. Thus my message is to hang out in familor areas when worried about being griefed.
Giving this more thought perhaps if someone verbally attacks you the best thing to do is to mute them. Ask your friends to do the same. After a little while the offending resident will get bored and leave. I think perhaps this is the best answer for you.
If you need any more "helpful" ideals please IM me online.

I actually had a conversation like this (not quite so severe though), and my Av is 6 foot 1 inch (same as me in RL). Dimbulbs who set their av to be 7 foot 5 seem quite widespread...

This is the one thing I wish LL would act upon, and the one thing I suspect they will not. Part of "being safe together" should be making it safe to be yourself, if it's a kid or just a 5' 8" adult.

Mari

I agree that people who want to play children in a non-sexual way should be able to do so, but equally I can understand the reason people would be edgy around child avatars - because the child avatar can attach a sex-related object at any instant, no matter how much they promise they won't, and no matter if it's a PG sim.

this sounds like paranoia

Maybe but I can see it happening. Would be a great way for a TV Expose to fabricate a scandal.

This is hypocritical. Pronouncing judgment on people based on their avatar height is not a good way to keep them from pronouncing judgment on you for YOUR height.

except that ....
Most if not all of us were/are at some point 5'3".
Most if not all of us are/were never 7'5".
Who needs the reality check?

What? How is that relevant to me suggesting we treat people the way we want to be treated? Saying there is a preponderance of stupid tall people is the same thing as saying that shorter people must have something 'wrong' with them.

Ann, I was not so much contradicting what you say so much as supporting what Gummi said. Sorry if it comes out wrong.

We have the issue that tall avatars are complaining left, right and centre at the merest sight of a short avatar. Portraying a short avatar alone, is not and has been repeatedly stated here, not contrary to TOS, CS or even the latest monument to vagueness, the 'broadly offensive' blog.

AR-ing something that also meets the above criteria however is a hugely time-consuming waste of resources.

It's the tall avatars doing this yes?

Hence the preponderence of stupid tall people. I am not saying shorter people have something wrong with them. Hence not the same. Sorry.

And yes, you are right. Treat others as we wish to be treated. Nothing wrong with that at all. Sorry if you thought I was saying there is.

You see, this is what I find irksome: the assumption that we *could* do something like this, in spite of our own intent to not do that. It's as if to say "I don't trust you because of your potential, not because of your actuality."

The argument back is that I should not associate with you, because I could be in your presence and at any time you could attach a big, ugly prim penis and try to force yourself upon me -- even though you can make it perfectly clear that you would never, ever do such, and even if we're in a PG sim. Therefore I should feel "edgy" about you based on a hypothetical potential.

Patently ridiculous, no? So why should I be assumed to be bad? It's a double standard, pure and simple. Frankly, I worry more about those puzzlewits (I'm not say you are one, Yumi, but I know there are those out there) who spend all their time obsessing over child avatars having sex. To me, there seems to be something sick about them, not me.

Mari
((ugg... I've been soooo wordy on all dis!)

the vast majority of people in SL are very tall, therefore more stupid people are tall.

Its not a cuase and effect relationship - Its just a byproduct of the numbers.

It doesnt mean proportionally there are more stupid tall people than short people.

But in the absolute sense there is. Its just Math.


As far as the situation with AR's, people know ageplay is not allowed now - word spread. But just like the Telephone games when you were a kid, the details didnt spread with it.

So tall people see short people and its - "ZOMG, a child AV wearing a bra, thats against the rules" AR AR AR AR AR

There isnt a similar ban on Basketball Player sex.

How about the revolutionary idea.


Treat others the way they (not we) want to be treated.

Would that people did, Misses Projects. I mean, really, it all comes dowwn to respect. Respect me, I respect you. We dun hafta agree, even if I'd prefer it.



I find basketball player sex broadly offensive.

Mari

Well, I can agree with you that it's ridiculous - but people do still do it. You probably know that many people IRL, especially women, are very cautious about associating with people they don't know because they might be assaulted or raped. And many other people IRL, especially men, are very cautious about associating with children because they might be falsely accused of abuse.

It's horrible, I agree, but it *does* happen, and I find it hard not to sympathise at least a bit with people who do feel that way. The problem is, while it's true that very, very few people will rape or assault someone, and that very, very few people will falsely accuse someone of child abuse, the consequences of these things happening are so horrible that people don't even want to take the tiny risk.

In Second Life these worries don't apply so much - but the fear of "being seen with a sexual child avatar" is still there, and actually much worse. IRL, having other people around who can stop someone assaulting you or who can see that you did not abuse the child can ease that fear. But in Second Life, no-one can stop the child av's player clicking "wear" on an object, or indeed just saying something sexual.

Great idea...unfortunately, a lot of people aren't terribly empathetic and the best they can do is to treat others as they'd like to be treated themselves. We all want respect and understanding, I think, so it's really not such a bad place to start.

Um, I think you just equated me with a rapist or a pedophile. I doubt you meant that, but I hadda point it out.



Ya know what? I'm really, really tired of thought crime. More so when the thought isn't even mine to begin with. I hate having to deal with the assumption of my guilt based on what others might think I could possibly do.

I don't own any sexual attachments. I don't talk or act sexual in-world. The very notion is crazy. It's, like, the exact opposite of why I'm even here, as this avatar, in Second Life. Yet, yes, I have had to listen to people tell me that the word of child avatars is simply not good enough, because of the simple potential of abuse.

It's like saying "avoid hammers, because solmeone could attack you with it."

I'm reminded of an interview I did with a senior member of KidsSchutz e.V. I'll quote, with their name removed:

[10:29] Marianne McCann: Anyway. What are your feelings on child avatars?
[10:30] Name Redacted: i hate them. Linden should forbid these avatars.
[10:31] Name Redacted: we all hate child avatars ! and sex with child avatars is terrible !!!
[10:33] Marianne McCann: So even child avatars who do not do sexual acts should be barred?
[10:33] Name Redacted: hm, could we be sure that they do no sexual things ....

Essentially, I feel the assumption of guilt has been placed on me (and other SL kids), and I have to *continually* prove my innocence. Having to always do this takes away from the time that, well, I could be enjoying those innocent times within my Second Life.

Maybe it's an issue of education needed about child avatars. I know the forums largely "get it," but so many others do not, or do not wish to. Yet how can this be taught on a grid-wide basis? Is it even possible?

Linden Lab, for their part, does not seem to care, having launched this witch hunt without seemingly putting any protections in place, ot trying to steer members away from an "AR first, ask questions later" mentality. This is a problem.

Enough soapboxing, I tink. I'll save it for a soapbox derby racer for my brother.

Mari

In a way, you have just actually made a better arguement for the legalization of Sexual Ageplay - then all the Sexual Ageplayers and Freedom Advocates did.

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If people are paranoid of Child Avs becuase of what they MIGHT do, and they are worried they will be banned by association;

Then the logical protection is to just not make it a bannable offense- thus protecting the Innocent bystander.
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Any Resident , Anywhere, at anytime can throw on a Child avatar and do something sexually explicit. Theres no way to stop it.

Then the answer seems simple: AR all residents for sexual ageplay. Once everyone is banned from SL, the problem of sexual ageplay goes away.

Mari
(tongue somewhat in cheek)

Ranma,
Contact me in world if you would like a child avatar shape to try on. I will give your some landmarks or, if you want, introduce you to a few places where there are lots of kids, or families, where I can guarantee there will be no sexual activities. There is also a charming "youth activity center" which is a nice, safe place to start. BTW, you don't have to be in kid form just to visit.

/me waves to Adz

I blieve Ranma already mentioned havin a kid alt earlier in dis thread. Good idea on the landmarks, though! You sooo rock.

The SLC Youth Activity Center is at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Masquerade%20Island/145/135/23/

Mari
(Who thinks this might be the most civil discussion ever with the "A" word in the title)

"It is preferable to remain silent, and be thought a Fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
Alicia, having removed all doubt, and has chosen the wiser path.

I pity all those "pure at heart" people who are incapable of looking at a child avatar and seeing anything but a Sex object. It always seems to me those persons professing to be our Moral Guides always seem to have the Filthiest minds.
I've known many players with child Avs who Only want to be children to relive the Innocence, the freedom, the Joy, and the Unfettered Silliness that is the realm of the child. Thier choice of Avatar has nothing whatever to do with Sex, it has to do with regaining some of the Magic, and wonder that (The collective)We have lost in growing up, and becoming Cynical, Pessimistic, Evil Minded, Foul Tempered, and generally repressed adults.

Someone once asked me;
"In your adult life, How many moments of Pure Joy have you experienced in the Last Week? Month? Year?" I was surprised when i actually thought about it, how little true Mirth i experience as an Adult. For a child, those moments can come very frequently indeed and i'm not surprised that many many adults look fondly back on those times. Many Miss the Truely incredible relationship they had with thier Mothers, Some (Like Myself) NEVER had a chance at such a relationship so i can Easily Understand the Attractionfor letting go and being someones child again. As Brandon Lee Said in "The Crow":
"Mother is the word for God in the language of a child".

Learning to let go again, "Getting in touch with thier inner child". I can't see much wrong with that, But the Well meaning (If filthy minded) Do Gooders can't see past thier own perverse Obsessions. They can't accept that there is more than One reason for sombody to wish to be a Child again. They can't wrap thier minds around someone wishing to Rediscover thier innocence. No,, in thier minds, All is filth, and it's thier job to make the rest of us see the world as they do.

Heaven help us if they ever succeed.

Angel.

Hey Angel, I find that broadly offensive .... *hug*

Hi FD! .. <wave>