New Zindra Blog Post

LOL - I got referred to the new community standards page which we all know was rewritten just a month ago , but Lotte seems to be indulging in rewriting history too. I'll paste the conversation in the wiki a little later RL is screaming at me right now

^L^

I vote C

There are a lot of Lindens who have been documented doing this kind of thing. They get away with it because there is no complaints mechanism and even if there was there would be no disciplinary action taken because they don't have a customer focus.

This is their way of point scoring, welcome to the club

As for breaching the ToS/CS, well they're so woolly anything is possible. Despite us being moved you realise there is no separate ToS for behaviour on Zindra so strictly speaking everything that will be verboten on mainland is probably just a forbidden in kinkyville unless it's hidden behind 4 walls. But we are allowed to advertise our forbidden goods.

I've placed the conversation on the Governance Action page - hope this is right - feel free to relocate it if not. BTW that page is getting pretty big

http://slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Governance_Team_Actions#Returned_Objects_Action

I'd set up a Adult Content Purge fallout and consequences page for this kind of report, but I don't know how to do that yet.

^L^

Thanks and I have moved it to:

http://slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Governance_Team_Actions#Content_Removed_or_other_Change_Done_Without_Warning_by_G_-_Team

She is in the wrong totally and acted like an arse, I would ensure that you bring this up with Blondin and I would fire a note card to Jack as well not that they will do anything but people ought to know there are these Lindens running around with no idea as to what is happening. Thanks for sharing

That option.

so use something like archive.org, here is the relevant CS from late 2007:



I have *always* heard of open-air sex/nudity (particularly on the mainland) to be a no-no in Second Life. In fact, during the debate about kid AVs being allowed on Zindra that was a point in the argument, as to whether or not it still applied. Even the most rabid no-kids-AVs-in-SL-anywhere-ever person did not question that it had ever been a rule.

Kara, I am doubtless being obtuse, but how do you get from to "open-air sex/nudity (particularly on the mainland) [being] a no-no in Second Life"?

It says, "contained within private land in areas rated Mature," not "contained within four walls on private land in areas rated Mature."

Where on earth does this leave people waiting to hear about their applications to move, I wonder. Should they leave their potentially offensive material out for inspection by those Lindens processing application, or remove it for fear of upsetting Lotte?

I have always heard of LL interpreting that to mean open-air sex was a no-no. It is not me doing an interpretation of the text, that is the CS they point to.

Note that it was pulled in November of 2007 too. I seem to recall that in 2008 it specifically stated that interpretation, but archive.org did not have the page to verify that.

Part of this was to show that, yes, you can see what the CS looked like before they were changed. Archive.org is only one site that archives the web.

It's weird because in my ticket for a swap, I stressed there was an open air sex and it was the one thing I couldn't give up as it was my actual theme.

Told you so.

This is the sort of government-decision-by-personal-whim that we can expect under the new regime. Well, it's the same old regime, but now they have more scope for interpretation.

One might point out all the public sex places in SL, many of which are outdoors and in plain view.

Lotte is flat wrong. Even under the old TOS/CS. Public nudity and public sex are not permitted *everywhere*, but they ARE permitted in "areas designated for such activities".

But...she is a Linden. So that makes her completely right.

Ok ok clarify, because I am apparantly slow, or confused. To the OP, the sex balls were returned by the Linden from the 'old' Mainland parcel you were moving 'from' or the new parcel on Zindra where you were moving to?

Well not the OP, that was a long time ago, but the person who posted about this situation.

Unfortunately different Lindens have differing ways of interpreting the CS to suit whatever they want it to say at the time (case in point is the current Zindra mess). Then the times we *want* a flexible policy (like the land extortion bit) they give detailed rules that people can easily get around to violate the spirit of what was intended.

LL just refuses to grasp the concept of where they need a broadly worded policy and where they need concrete rules.

Lindens are probably told to use the knowledge base to make decisions on subjects they don't know the answer for

I have heard since I started in 2006 that *if* there is an AR about it, open-air sex on Mature land is prohibited on the basis of that goofy "contained within private land" clause--as if it meant "contained within some prim structure." But it's all word-of-mouth; god forbid Governance should ever write anything down explicitly and publicly.

If you think that's vague and obscure: maybe a year ago, Governance was bamboozled by adfarmers into resurrecting a long-dead "no parcel blocking" rule from before point-to-point teleports. I doubt that rule was ever written down anywhere, even back before my time when it probably made some sense.

can anyone remember the link to the adult verification info pack that was/is on sale through xsl?

or who made it?

ta

But of course it made sense! What if they drew an audience while sitting down to knit?

[for anyone lost ... google "robo marx" and "knit"]

I think this might be the one your looking for

https://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=1555750

^L^

That Maggie is a feisty one isn't she? Why do I never get someone as sharp as that when I whistle up concierge chat? She's worth paying tier for lol

you star! thanks

There's nothing wrong with the "no parcel blocking" rule, the problem is that phantom prims you can't even see from the parcel aren't "blocking", and the G-Team was fooled into thinking they were.

It transpired back in the "Adult Content Changes" discussion thread over in the blog -- not sure if this link is going to work properly, but this was June 28, if anyone wants to look it up https://blogs.secondlife.com/message/5983#5983 -- that Live Help were quoting DanielRavenNest Noe's deductions in his wiki article as their reference source for what was going on.

"Ave bossa nova, similis bossa seneca"

It can have thousand reasons, even some strange moods inside of the person, but so far no reasons which would be covered by a signed ToS and other hints. Also there were never crystal clear rules for Mature established and the new *blurry* rules are still not officially established, nor is the swap mission completed, nor is the new viewer an obligation, etc.

If you ask what we folks think:

My pesonal impression is since long that all this is another part of many parts of their demoralise/discourage/confuse/attrition-tactic against mainland customers since March, 12, 2009.

And I bet they have - as ever - no excuse and no clear answer about why they did this, especially since they deleted or returned no open adult content on mature land along the last years.

I remember the times when I had my full mainland region (well, until March): surrounded by 4 sims which had all possible adult stuff in open, including a kind of "hard alley" area or how that is called - and BDSM stuff and whatnotall. One time a Linden came and sold a last - from someone abandoned - 16 sqm plot to me, so that I could have the full sim square meters complete. I had things on my sim, my partner had things on my sim, also my relative explicite artwork of that time hanged in open-air galleries (think on art like Dash Snow style and Tomi Ungerer style, but originals made by me along my study times) and the sims around mine, were so much totaly open adult that more adult is not possible.

The Linden person who came to give me the 16 sqm must have been totaly blind to not return things too, but it was just ok to have literally anything on mature land these times. No Linden took notice. And he was standing there for hours for unknown reasons, this Linden, while working on handover this small mini plot to me.

And they took no action. Never. The good old SL days. Mature was literally based on anything goes, as long it was not criminal.

K, now is censorship established and this is the result. Some characters starting now to abuse their "power".

And this against long time customers. And was it not Jack along the last few OH's who told several times that they would first talk and negotiate and this and that - instead of acting arbitrarily?

Pah! Nothing than empty words, as ever. All what we don't have written black on white and notary signed in hands is just a lie. Even as ever.

Just my thoughts but this is what I think.

A fair and good customer service would look very different. They have a tendency to treat us like we were idiots.

Can someone do me a favor that is in world. Someone go to Haxness (or the sim west) and then go one or two sims north, turn on full distance draw, and look to the east. Then tell me two things

A) if you can access those sims.
B) if any land is showing reserved

LL is telling me I can't reserve land not yet accessible but I swear I saw a plot or two reserved at the far end of the east most sims. Also if possible include sim names and SLURS? I'm tired of waiting till I get home and waiting all night for answers.

Edit: the plot I am thinking of is flatish beach. I think sandwiched between the bay and a river.

Just got my Zindra Land from Socrates Linden

Ticket# 4051-6486616 9/6/2009 4:16 PM PDT Closed 22/7/2009 12:28 PM PDT