New Zindra Blog Post

Well,that is your choice Qie.
Again, what is done is done. I guess all you can do is get the thread deleted at this point.

I support the inclusive, democratic process more than your demands. You CHOSE to identify yourself - you did not have to do that. I made a effort to conceal the names - I knew there would be whining. I did not know that a few of you would make a point of identifying yourselves just to complain about being identified.

It would suck if LL changed its mind, but the sim across from Mosh was always Linden land, not available for the swaps, and uniquely labeled "reserved for future development" unlike the other sims that were slated for eventual auction. I'd be very surprised and disappointed if LL ever had any plans to make that sim anything but public space, nor do I expect that they'd do so now.

Also, nobody owns parcels nearby the old ocean Zindra sim to have any random traffic to lose. It's at least two sims away from anything but the Arapaima infohub (maybe further--I don't have access to the Map to check right now).

Um, you can't have a conspiracy if nobody's conspiring.

No, it's been your choice not to retract what are now quite obviously outright lies.
Doesn't matter. Support for democracy does not confer the right to slander people.
Nobody is complaining about being identified, and there's no reason we should. There was no wrongdoing and no ulterior motives. That's the whole damned point.

And then again did anyone really think blodin was able to get it done much less so quick......secially when you consider his track record

There were wrong doings - but perhaps no ulterior motives (ignorance is not a defense). But OK, you absolved yourself. Go in peace, brother. I won't hash this out here again with you. Just IM me to continue.

I'm sorry, I'm not in the Zindra alliance. I apologise if I seem to have insinuated at any point that I am a member of that group, or talking as one of their representatives. I most certainly am not involved with the group and any opinions stated are my own.

That is what he does in Blake Seas, and has been suggested as an option. He meets with representatives for the groups though, and not the entire group.

I have made the chat transcript for the Zindra Alliance meeting available here for people to read as I feel that it is in the public interests.

I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. I have of course asked for Linden clarifiaction on certain issues that the Chair claims.

http://www.slapt.me/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=551

You are welcome to sign up with us and comment on the thread of course as it is IMHO a matter that affects ALL Zindra landowners.

Im not familiar with the Blake Sea model of community development. I am a member of their Forums - I think I can get one of them over here to explain to us how it works there. Perhaps we need Zindra Community Development to be a mixture of Blake Sea and Bay City.

I disagree, I think that is true that it is an agenda for just the ZA, that was not suggested to anyone outside the group?

The Border Patrol store name was a joke on my part when the age verification zones were placed next to the warehouse andwest store that had existed in Concinna since early 2008. That store primarily sold security devices like orbs. The group was only formed to be the owner of that store. Later we added the border patrol logo to the security orbs we deploy.

The Bay City Police Department was formed to be an extension of the Ghul Federal Prison role-play environment that existed since September 2007. It was formed so we could do arrests outside the sim where the prison was located as there was many requests for it. Later we added the court to the Bay City building so we could run trials as published events.

For many reasons we found that Bay City was not the right environment for role-play and the Bay City Police Department was therefore changed to provide some community services. It was never involved in sim protection or authority type activities.

When the role-play prison moved to Zindra, we wanted to re-establish the police station and court as originally intended, and they were called Zindra State Prison and Zindra State Police accordingly.

In addition to being a support function for the prison, the Zindra State Police group operates the age verification zone in Concinna that has between 50 and 200 visitors every day.

The Bay City Police Department is for all practical purposes dead with the exception of the age verification information provided in the Bay City - Docklands sim, next to the Hau Koda Infohub.

I hope this helps shed light on my authority activities.

Gavin, be clear that this age verification place is just your build on your property adjacent to your income-making stores. It is a very user-friendly way to attract new players to your products - but it is not a 'community' project. Just for clarification.

so you have an authoritarian role? within Zindra

Lol
as I thought it is just another way of using the Zindra name

Could very well be.

Bay City works brilliantly for events and such, but not so good for business development. My initial knee jerk reaction to the Blake Seas model is it sounds ideal for split and conquer. I may be wrong.

I have serious doubts if SecondLife is ready for a proper governance model for resident communities. I believe such models rather will succeed a bit down the line with hypergrids where you have critical mass of residents to form an organizational unit, and where each grid has their own community standards. But I am ready to be proven wrong on that.

I am not sure "adult" is any more of a criteria for community building than "gay" is, as they both house very diverse audiences, beliefs and business models when it comes to the businesses. You can also throw language and geographical spread into the equation.

I dont think so. There was a comment by Gomez I had set myself up for it.

There is a mention in the land description that the zones are provided by the Zindra Police Department where it before said Bay City Police Department.

There is a Zindra how-to and a Zindra map which was added after the continent was open for everyone and that goes into search so people can find it.

The age verify zone was established in March 2009 so we could age verify own staff, then the PIOF zone was added as soon as we understood the initial announcement on adult content when it also was put into search. More content was added as we gained understanding.

It is not a community project. It is a community service that comes out of my pocket (tier and time) to provide a place where people can get help to verify. There is nothing more to it.

But communities ARE diverse: this is why they require governance structures in the first place. Are you really going to wait until you have enough people who agree completely with you before putting in a "proper governance model" . . . at exactly the point where one is no long necessary?

A community that consists solely of entirely like-minded individuals isn't really a "community" at all: it's a ghetto.

Or a congregation of alts.

It is not Gavins place to provide that type of Goverance it is LL, and when you start to try and take away peoples independance and right to speak out then sl will collapse

Well, I am against 'divide and conquer' also Gavin. But you were the first one to suggest forming a group beside ZA for those that opposed your management style (I wont say Jago's style - since he stays mute on these issues and allows you to kick the dust up any way you please).
I use the phrase 'Community Development' not government. The community develops itself - government develops the community.
We aren't a community building group just because we are Adult Content Provider. We are customers of Linden Lab on the same Continent. Bay City residents aren't one thing - yet they have an Alliance also.

Gavin, Hold on loosely. If you grip too tightly your going to loose control.

It was OK that Constanza Amsterdam showed to the ZA meeting and was not a memeber of ZA. Jago had teleported her there. Telling her that she had to become a member of ZA to remain at the meeting was just not in the spirit of community. And really - making statements you cannot back up is just silly. What were you going to do, push her into the water? It was public land. I guess we know now why you want the future ZA meetings on your own property.

What age verification Zones? are these official ones, or some you knocked up?

The group description does not seem to indicate it's a store:



Reading it, it sounds more like a "hire a vigilante" operation - I could be wrong, but first impressions count



Bay City is NOT an appropriate place to do RP - a parcel you may own on Bay City, maybe - you don't own the whole of Bay City. There are ordinary folk there that don't want to get involved in your games.

The group charter for you "police force" there states:



"This is not a roleplay group"? What is it then? Police dont exist in SL - Only LL can make decisions like a real "police force" could. Calling your group "police" cannot be anything but role-play.



Again, the group charter does not look (in the main) like a RP group to me if it was, you wouldnt be doing out of RP activites:






The only "authority activities" you have in SL, like all other residents, is on your own parcel and your own land. The sooner you stop your megalomania and understand this and WORK with other residents, the better. There's no point in power and shouting or "DEMANDING" when people don't listen to you.

Gomez

A proper community governance system is important precisely as a means of safeguarding your independence and right to speak. Without this, those without friends, allies, financial oomph, etc., are precisely the ones who are not going to be heard.

Zindra IS a community already: the very existence of this thread, and its predecessors demonstrates that. You can either acknowledge that, and put process in place to ensure that it is a just community, or you can pretend that it isn't . . . and be railroaded by those who are noisiest, most efficient, or have the most leverage with LL.

Your choice.

ok this entire thing makes me sick to my stomach

I am sick of ppl who thrive to cause disruption when all was done, imo, to make things community oriented. Even if there motivation is not malice its what this person creates.
Why bash good things it only hurts all in the long run.

I am withdrawing myself from any group of Zindras, I will still be around to help in anyway possible to any group if its needed. But I will be independent.

and another thing Lias or whatever your name is, stop your crap will ya.

Is anyone being charged tier for their Zindra land? Point being that even on estate land, if you tick the "owner makes contribution" box when deeding land to a group, you can be charged tier by Linden Lab, so has this happened to anyone on Zindra?