New Zindra Blog Post

Kidd, that approach was attempted - and I was told to shut up. The officers refuse to take any concerns seriously. Jago could show you all of the notecards I sent him. Whenever I spoke to any of his officers I cc'd him on it. I asked Ann O'toole to sit in on the 3 hour conversation I had with Gavin following my posting. I do not know her but I know of her. And she was gracious enough to come and hear what was being discussed. That is how we got the community meeting planned for today. Thank you Ann for taking 3 hours out of your morning to help make ZA a more inclusive community group.

I am definitely saying what they did was bad - it was not good. It lacked any process or community input. And now that has changed. I am not naive enough to think that if I had said "Look, six people commented on this without consulting the rest of the group, in a way that might have been interpreted as speaking for the entire group" - that the same peopel would not have jumped all over it anyway. Ignorance is not a defense.

I had friends caught with Cuban Cigars in America. They claimed ignorance of any embargo or the fact that these cigars were Cuban in origin. But it was explained to them that it their adult responsibility to make themselves aware. The same applies here. And it was still considered a crime. And they were charged for the offense.

To say 'I do not know the ins-and-outs of a community-based democratic process' is fine. But it does not make what you did OK.

OK, so one idea is to choose a different chair for each meeting. Other people may want to do things differently, but fine. How do we choose the chair for a particular meeting, or doesn't it matter because it's Blondin's meeting anyway and who's supposed to be chairing it and what's on the agenda is completely irrelevant since "Blondin will run his meeting as he sees fit"?

I'm not trying to argue -- just to understand what's proposed and if it's actually worth anyone's time bothering to draw up what you seem to be saying will be an agenda for Blondin to ignore or not, as the mood strikes him.

From what you're saying, it seems to me -- as someone who doesn't see the Zindra Alliance as any sort of representative body, since it's never purported to do more than facilitate things -- that the whole exercise is a bit of waste of time. Folks are apparently best advised just to turn up on Mondays and chip in with whatever seems important to them to say at the time, and let Blondin do something about it or not.

As we have been doing for the last few weeks, or so I thought we were.

The meeting on Monday is the Zindra Landowner's meeting facilitated by Zindra Alliance, meaning all Zindra landowners are free to join regardless of member status in the Zindra Alliance group.

It is Zindra Alliance that has invited Blondin, and it is Zindra Alliance that chairs the meeting.

We may add issues raised at the meeting outside our agenda to the AoB section of the meeting.

Participants are free to join in the discussion at any time on the agenda topics, but attempts to hijack the meeting will not be tolerated.

The meeting today, Sunday August 16, is an internal Zindra Alliance meeting.

Sorry Gavin, can you clarify? Not tollerated my who? You? LL? the ZA? Blondin?

I've no wish to "hijack" a meetign any Zindra resident is able to meet, but I just needed to check, as last time I was there, the meetings are held in municipal land owed by Gov Linden...

Does Blondin know you are attempting enforcing these rules on the whole SL community on public LL land, that you can look but not speak in *his* meetings?

Gomez

At the end of the meeting we would choose who would chair the next meeting. Just by suggesting names and getting a consensus - and then of course, the person would agree to do it.
A written request for Blondin to make changes to the meeting style would be considered by him, I believe. The community group could meet to compose such a letter and then send it off to Blondin. (These are just suggestions).
I believe Blondin said he does not want the Monday meeting to turn into the circle jerk that his regular office meetings have become. I believe that we can comply.

You're right. I shouldn't have said that, and I apologize.

One other point: It does not advance inclusion to drive away community-minded participants acting in good faith to the benefit of that community. That cuts both ways: Lias means to contribute positively, as did everyone in attendance at Blondin's meetings. Excluding Lias from the Alliance is a mistake, and it follows on the mistake of accusing meeting attendees of corruption, which drove off at least one very valued contributor to the Zindra community.

Even a perfect democracy of only those remaining after the abused have all been driven off has no claim to legitimacy, and quite rightly will have no voice with Linden Lab nor with the broader community it purports to represent.

That would not be a disaster; there just would be no recognized community organization for Zindra, unlike Bay City, et al., but that's just the same as the other Mainland continents. Perhaps nonetheless Blondin might continue for a time to meet with Zindra residents and continue to provide scatter-shot replies and results. It would just continue to be disorganized and less productive than it might otherwise be, and some of us would be disappointed at yet another opportunity squandered.

In any case, we owe it to the community to do our best to re-engage the disenfranchised. It's really not that difficult to try.

It is not *his* meetings. He is an invited representative from Linden Lab to a meeting facilitated by Zindra Alliance.

We, who will not tolerate hijacking of the meeting, is the Zindra Alliance as it is our event.

Since people have been asking for process, we will now have a process around the meetings, whereas previous meetings have been more free form.

Where did the above say look but not speak?

If the Bronlen LDPW Cafe is cause for concern, we can move it inside a building on the neighbor parcel were I own land.

Gavin,

Here:



So, if we choose to ask Blondin something we dont have your permission to do so, we are accused of "hijacking" a meeting between residents and LL.

Just out of interest, what is the consequences of asking a perfectly resonable question in the meetings without your permission? Will you set the other groups you formed such as the "Zindra State Police" or maybe the "Bay City Police Department" or even the "Border Patrol" on me? Sheesh - you strive self appointed authority don't you?

Gomez

It's not "naive" to use effective communication skills. If you had actually phrased your objections without insinuation, then the focus of the resulting conversations would have been on improving the process, rather than on imaginary corruption.

I am not sure Blondin will agree that this is the case Gavin. Perhaps before making such a statement Blondin needs to be heard from. Are you saying that all other groups will have to make a separate meeting with Blondin because the Monday meeting is yours? I do not believe that Linden Lab will go along with that plan.

These were not insinuations. These were documented facts , Sin. You can focus any part of the statement you like. But now we have a more inclusive process in place. And that is what I am focusing on.

I'm REALLY confused. Surely any meetings held anywhere will affect ALL the people on Zindra, not just the members of one group? Or am I missing something?

I tend to keep quiet in the forums cos to be honest, I trip over my own tongue and can't always get my point across right lol, but having read this forum for some time and being a Zindra member and member of Zindra groups, I just become more and more confused.

I've read the notes from previous meetings as I can rarely attend them, and the meetings are always concerns for Zindra on the whole, tickets, land swaps, auctions, lighting etc etc, which affects everybody in Zindra, not just the ones in the group mentioned recently.

SO, surely EVERYOUE should be able to attend, I for one would have no problem putting up a sign on my land which gives out a notecard about meeting times, places and discussions so far for any landowners in Zindra to see. And surely Blondin can speak to everyone and possibly even chair his own meetings. And maybe it could be held on public linden land not someone's private land? Ive just seen a lot of fighting and group deterioation (ok that doesnt look like the right spelling but it will do). I joined Zindra groups to say, "hey, Im a Zindra owner, I have adult content, I like to keep up with news etc" and its all gone downhill lately I'm sorry to say. Its great that someone arrange meetings with blondin, but just cos those meetings have been set up, does not mean they represent everyone on Zindra or have the right to control things, thats what it looks like at the moment.

That's certainly correct. Of course the same could be said of any individual contacting LL, and there's no means nor reason to prevent that.

It's unlikely that Blondin will be scheduling multiple Zindra resident meetings to cover additional groups.

I also don't think these are Zindra Alliance meetings to which Blondin is the lucky Linden participant. As I recall, Blondin decided (with I believe some encouragement from Jack) to have weekly meetings on the Zindra continent, with landowners for now, perhaps eventually to expand to non-landowning residents of the continent (of which there still must be very few).

On the other hand, I think Blondin is more than happy that some group is trying to organize topics to whatever extent possible, and to help structure the meetings into something more productive than the bedlam they might otherwise become and on which they've sometimes verged.

Just for the public record the ZA does not represent me in regards to any public matters on Zindra and I will raise anything I need to at a monday meeting with Blondin which IIRC were started to enable the Zindra landowners to have a specific office hour related to Zindra only with Blondin. I hope that others will also contact Blondin to ask his take on the issue.

Insinuating corruption is not a fact.

I stated what the corruption was, Sin. Page 158 post #2357. It has not changed. It will not change. The change took place in the Zindra Alliance. and that was the point of the post I made.

So this is a Zindra Alliance/Blondin meeting, so you have set these meetings up to discuss issues of Zindra for all of us, ) not be tolerated stance means really we cannot discuss anything you do not approve of I am sorry Gavin you are running something for your own benefit, under the pretence it is for all our good.

I am hoping that Gavin's statement got mixed up in the cultural and language differences here in SL. I hope he meant that people there just to like grief the meeting will be dealt with swiftly. Although the meetings take place in public land Gavin has no control over.

I have done just that

Assuming you mean post #2367, there's nothing in there that I see that qualifies as corruption.

Meets my criteria. We all have our own opinions on the matter. The outcome is what matters. 40 people on the Island of Zindra right now creating an collective agenda that will be sent out to all of the ZA members prior to the meeting with Blondin tomorrow. Wonderful.

I suppose post #2367, , as that's your only post on that page. So let's take a look:

That's a public accusation of wrongdoing and ulterior motives. And you know for a fact that it's incorrect.

I know that it is correct. Intention is not a pre-requisite. (hash, hash, hash)

Why are your actions OK because the outcome helped everyone. But my actions helped everyone also - but you are having a hard time moving forward.

My problem with all this is that an empty sim was named zindra.....I voiced then as I do now that the next door info hub is the one that should off been named zindra. I feel that the current sim was picked in an effort to push it to be protected land which may or may not work.....could just result in land in that sim being more expensive. If the info hub was renamed 'zindra infohub' then the old zindra sim wouldn't of have to have been renamed or at worst have been renamed to 'zindra sea' which would of negated people owning nearby parcels from complaining of the lack of random traffic I'm sure they will lose.

Yes, because you continue, even just here, accusing us--me included--of wrongdoing and ulterior motives. Until you recant, that's right: I'm not moving on, and I'm not the only aggrieved party here.

I won't agree to my reputation and that of others being unfairly slurred in exchange for any amount of "helping" you may imagine your actions achieved. Those actions have hurt very much more than they've helped.