New Zindra Blog Post

Wow Gavin, what Brie said was a positive way forward - you managed to knock that back in this one single sentance - i guess you dont work in PR?



I see the charter, but as the officers have been acting beyond this already, normal members also assume it's a public mouthpiece for Zindra Landowners...



So the meetings with Blondin on Mondays are totally independant of the ZA group? I think this should be made clearer especially as you make statements like "xxxx is of course welcome to attend Monday meetings with Blondin Linden, as is any Zindra resident."


You wrongly assume i'm in the US - i'm not, i'm in the UK and yes, to accuse someone of being corrupt is a serious allegation, however, to not address the individual correctly and throe them out of the group only fans the flames. I don't know all the facts, but the wat this was done was wrong in my opinion.


I know that and if you re-read correctly, you will see i stated SPECIFCALLY "note, none of these suggestions I have are based on past events, just how I see the group SHOULD run"


Maybe it wouold be better that a dictatorship?

Gavin, until your reply, I had no beef with you - but the way you responded to my perfectly reasonable suggestions have now completely changed my opinion of you...

Just a suggestion - http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671723650

Gomez

For now our position has been a pragmatic one to facilitate the meeting, where we let there be an open discussion there and then, and if possible reach consensus on a request to LL to change something (like the Zindra name swap).

I agree there is a need to make this clearer. I have no personal ambition to turn it into a political group to "fight Linden Lab" or whatever it seems someone has a need to do.


I don't assume anything, I was talking in general terms.

Perhaps it would be wise to not have an opinion if you don't know the facts?



If you cared to read back a few pages, you would discover I am for nothing of the sorts.

But if you want to run government - you run government, or a political party - you run a political party, with all it implies, and not a SL group. You also declare it loud and clear so everyone knows.

Zindra Alliance is not an attempt to establish government on the Zindra continent, it is also not a politicized group to "fight the Lindens".

I think was well put.
I dont see the group as THE representative of all Zindra, never have. I think that's pretty clear amoung residents that groups can be formed. not an issue for me. I do see the group of having so much potential to make this a great community ... ppl who want to get make the effort. Now as any group owner its there right to remove members, however do I agree. Not so much, if they want to be all inclusive and head in the right direction. However I do see where the officers are coming from, its been tiresome to deal with. I do wish it was handled different. How, not sure at the moment. Taking some time to set the group in place with new actions and rules on how we should conduct ourselves, like a rights and responsibility statement should be in place and voted upon first. Then with that in effect proceed. It should be the last straw if at all to remove someone, if the group wants to be all inclusive. Its a new group, yes there are growing pains, I do hope that she is reinstated and w/o any shame from either party. Then we all move forward from here with a rights & responsibility statement.
just my opinion

I have to verify, Give me one reason why should i? Many strip clubs are still on mature land? I have been following this all for a while and decided to dive in. I just logged in today after a long vacation from SL.

Seems not everyones playing by the rules?

This is well stated. From a neutral obsever's position, I have been following this thread. While it is admirable that a group of residents has decided to form the Zindra Alliance in an attempt to present a unified voice for THEIR interests, it is very presumptuous and arrogant for them the think that they are speaking for the entire population of Zindra. Many residents may wish to voice their concerns individually, which is their right, and would be what I would pprefer if I were a resident. They should not have to run the risk of being sshouted down or overlooked in group think. Every resident of Zindra has a voice in it's future, whether they belong to a group or not.

And I also agree, this public infighting does no good to the ZA's cause in any event. You can't be expected to represent a group when you can't represent yourselves properly.

Just my 2 cents.

Not everyone is required to yet.

Private islands are not required to flag as adult yet, and Linden Lab has not started enforcing the yolicy on Mature mainland yet. When (or if...) they do you'll find adult content on Mature rated land a lot less common than it is now.

Since an acceptable method of verification is putting payment information on file, it's not that big a deal. It appears that once your in-world profile reads payment information on file or payment information used, you can remove it and it sticks in world, so you don't need to actually leave it on file with LL to remain verified.

Ya know, i am sorry you feel that way. your welcome to your opinion, as i am welcome to mine. The reason for what is said about being adult and acting adult is not an insult by any means. There are always going to be people that set out to do everything they can to be disruptive. Having a meeting in a public place has its downfalls, but in all fairness, it is what it is.

I didn't at any time refer to you, or anyone else as children, nor did i infer it. I have yet to say anyone is not welcome to attend or have their say at any of the meetings. Everyone is welcome. Everyone has a right to be heard.

And as far as the group goes, as most anyone in there will tell you, i don't say much. I may answer a question, ask a question, engage in whatever is being discussed, but short of asking people to take a personal rant session to IMS, i have not ever said shut up to anyone. Your last statement of being open minded is the exact same thing i was saying. Act adult, so that the messages get across properly.

And just as a point of interest, in the notices that have been sent out to the ZA, it has been requested that anyone that has concerns that can't make the meetings drop a notecard on one of us, so that we can make sure everyone that has an interest can have their concerns discussed.

and BTW, pointing out that yes, we are but one voice of Zindra is correct. However, it seems a pretty moot point when you consider that the things we are attempting to get done affect everyone there. Flagging private islands, search, unfair treatment.
Use your voice to raise your point. I'll use mine. I honestly don't care WHO they listen to, as long as they LISTEN.

LL needs to fix it. Period. They need to send out emails to EVERYONE that has adult content still on mature land, be it mainland or private island. They need to be aware they have to be on adult land, be it thru the auctions or re flagging the sim to adult. They need to make the search field level. If 1.23 is not going to be mandatory, then they need an alternative to make sure all adult businesses can be found in search. The entire population of SL needs to be told of these changes.

Call that personal, or me speaking just for me, or tell me you don't think it affects you.
Speak up on your own, or with the group of your choosing. Everyone may phrase it different, but it all comes down to the same thing. The more the merrier. Make a noise. Enough people make a noise and maybe, finally, LL will listen. If they do, we all win. Works for me.


~Brie

yeah its not giving this group a good rep by all this and what has been said....

I joined not too long ago and haven't had any personal issues with them, all I can say speaking for only me, of course.

Its great that this group was formed, gathering for a good cause is great.

I never saw the group as speaking for all thou. Never saw that they intended to.

Its a group one of many, one that is making efforts, large ones.

I do hope that it gets a bit more organized and take this all in stride with growing pains.

I dont know about this thou;
Originally Posted by Soar Wingtips
The flag is a good point, not one person that is not in the Alliance group or on this forum was im or sent information about the flag, that to is going to be a closed door decision and many artistic people out there never got a chance to get involved [...]

I see info markers up and I did send out a notice to other groups about it that I know of, when I learned about the contest happening.

its just a contest for a flag within the group, any group can organize the same thing.
whats the problem with ppl trying to bring more attention and traffic to Zindra?

got me, maybe I am just not aware of some things, who knows

but its a postive thing, imo, contests and hunts or whatever

It is OK for you to call Linden Lab out in their own public forum. There are several posts from you here and in the ZA group chat calling Linden Lab 'unfair'. But when you were called out in the same forums for what that member considered unfair - Gavin responded badly by expelling her and silencing her voice in the ZA Group. I have been to the Monday meetings - and anyone can look at slapt.me and see that Lias never disrupted any meeting with Blondin.

From your actions you agree that Linden Lab can read what you just wrote and then disbanded Zindra Alliance to silence the complaints - no discussion.

What is gained from kicking Lias out of the Zindra Alliance and then sending out a group notice and posting it in the forums? (both acts go completely against the TOS when it comes to defaming someone).

Gavin already said Lias told him she has alts embeded in the group. And the group remains open enrollment. So why make this big show of expelling her?

To make is a warning to all others that even think of defying the Zindra Alliance leadership - that is why. And that is the saddest result of this entire mess. That Gavin, with one notecard, proved Lias absolutely right. And he gained nothing positive from his actions. He willbe running the meeting Lias developed tommorrow with Brie - and pretend it was all their idea. They will build on what she stuck her head out to make happen and not so much as care that they are stealing someone else's ideas and momentum and co-oping them as their own.

In America, personal financial gain from running a community group is considered corruption. She hit the nail on the head. Advertising sales from the Zindra Times represent financial gain. It is wrong to mix the community group with the income making magazine. Period.

Pointing out these 'errors in judgement' is not the end of teh world. You can say 'you may have a point' and it is over. To make an example of her for any future 'troublemakers' just will not do. Please do not run the Zindra Alliance like some mafia - looking for respect and making public examples of anyone that opposes your authority. respect is earned. Authority is granted by the people you represent.

And still Gavin will not budge, Brie pretends it never happened and will nto comment on it (even though Gavin has stated she help make this happen) and Jago, the founder of the group refuses to even make his voice heard at all - relying on Gavin to make a mess of things.

Some things need doing. I truly don't care if those things get done with the help of the Alliance, or through some complex process rivaling the EU Parliament, or by legions of tiny purple elves.

I believe that by far the most important thing right now is the fact that LL is threatening to not make the 1.23 viewer mandatory and at the same time go ahead with shutting off any Adult Content from 1.22. That simply must not happen.

If private Estate owners with Adult regions understood that this was about to happen they would be at Cyn's RL office door first thing Monday morning. This is one time when the interests of Zindra and Adult Estate businesses are perfectly aligned.

Does Stroker know that one month from now, overnight, his entire empire will completely disappear to a large segment of his customers? Do Javier and Amethyst and all the others? Why aren't they screaming?

Whether the Estates are blissfully unaware, or preoccupied with whatever additional advantages Jack has planned for them, or whatever ails them, we on Zindra cannot allow this to happen. I'd strongly recommend that the Monday meeting with Blondin be largely devoted to making sure he understands just how unacceptable this is, and that he leaves the meeting tasked with getting the situation reversed, one way or another.

This is really not the ideal time to pause for a constitutional convention to define the perfect process for choosing a flag.

This is what bugs me about the constant "Switch estates now" calls, I have land on Zindra, I have an adult homestead, there are over 300 estates flagged adult. On both mainland and estate others are running adult business on mature land.

Instead of trying to work together on a sensible solution, people seem to just want to point fingers at estate owners. Estate owners aren't the guilty party here and making them flag adult won't solve the problems either, both estate and Zindra owners should be lobbying for a better solution and all the time estate owners, including those who have flagged adult and are therefore in the same boat in terms of visibility as Zindra land owners, are paying tier.

We have a solution on the table that will be discussed tomorrow and put forward to LL on Monday that will level the field for everyone. I am sure LL will find it controversial, but it should give everyone some breathing room.

Qie I belong to the Bay City Alliance. There's only one member who has behaved in an acrimonious manner from what I've seen and experienced. Let's say they're a common member of the Bay City Alliance and the Zindra Alliance. He hasn't quite left us in Bay City by the way, even though he has no interest in the community or events, which are the key points of focus for our group as opposed to promoting businesses.

While we may be a key conduit for feedback between the Lindens and Bay City residents, we don't pretend to be the be all end all of Bay City, and there are plenty of residents who are either unaware of us or not interested in community involvement.

The BC Alliance is otherwise a wonderful and diverse group of folks, each bringing their own perspective into the mix.

Hung out with the Nova Albion group too - yes there is one ;P - who are also very nice.

I wish Zindra Alliance luck in finding their footing, but it's gonna take some detoxing IMHO lol

Maybe this is something to share???

You are welcome to the meeting tomorrow for the discussion. 11 am PDT @ Zindra sim.

So it is not open discussion before hand you have come up with some ideas that are as you say radical, yet are not willing to share them, that is democracy and an open group that includes all
LOLOL Point made
Yes I dont need you to tell me if or if not I can be at the meeting either thanks

Its certainly open for discussion. The point in not posting it is more one of its not been finalized yet. There are records from the first meeting, the things we have been discussing between the officers of the ZA, and then everything we get from everyone that is at the meeting tomorrow, plus some ideas that have been tossed in the last 2 days from other people. Rather than be like LL and push out an idea half cooked, we are attempting to get it all together, and then open it up for discussion, dissection, conversation, amending, and all those other good things. Hunting for a conspiracy here is really similar to going on a snipe hunt. You will get about the same results.



Brie isn't pretending anything. I have checked all my IM logs, and have been online pretty much constantly. I have yet to receive an IM asking me about my opinion, thoughts or otherwise on it. Gavin did what He felt was right. I have zero problems discussing it in IM's or voice, in world, but personally I don't feel the forums are the place for it. I have often agreed to disagree with people that have different opinions. There is too much diversity in SL, people from too many cultures and backgrounds, that often here, things written, come across in ways they aren't intended. Why make a bad situation worse by fueling it?

~Brie

god ppl just stop the mud flinging will you?

there is a meeting to talk about it isnt that what ppl want?

This should go to private IM's if you want to fight with another instead of flaming the issue more.

period

My point exactly

~Brie

Exactly Soar - you hit the nail on the head. Why should WE have to wait until tomorrow until the selft proclaimed "elders" (read self appointed) of the group decide we are "allowed" to know what is being discussed???

Geez - This just gets worse...

Is the ZA an open group?? Gavin - you seem to think it ok to send a group notice about your own SL newspaper - what about PROPER group updates? If you want to be the "Zindra Cop" you seem to strive to be, fine - have a play, but don't pretend to be doing it on behalf of all the Zindra Landowners... We are all adults here.

For any Zindra Landowners or Tenants, I've formed a new group - "Zindra Landowners Alliance". Feel free to join. It's just for landowners and tenants of landowners. Not sure how it will pan out, and i have no wish to start ordering people about or get involved in squabbles , but it may be a decent alternate in the current climate... If you wish to help me run it, please let me know in-world

Gomez

Well done

A friend said that these discussions were continuing with comparisons to the Bay City Alliance. The BC Alliance is an informal group used for communicating, marketing, and planning events and celebrations. We are NOT a governing group; we do not have officers; everyone is equal. The name alliance is not an accident = a group of allies.

The Bay City Alliance is an inclusive group. We have never ejected anyone, although in the early days this was requested. (Twice, when two members disagreed, they each wanted the other ejected.) A few members wanted RULES, but Linden Labs makes the ONLY rules we have to abide.

I thank the people who have praised my efforts. But the BC Alliance works because MANY residents have contributed energy to make the community better. When one resident sponsors a concert, art show, business opening, etc., members of the BC Alliance support that event because we know it makes the whole community better. We have had community-wide celebrations, a flea market, parades, and concerts. We are more like the Chamber of Commerce than the State Legislature.

The Lindens have been wonderful in working with us and advising us. (Thanks, Blondin, Keira, Michael, Blue, etc.) We love the moles too. And, in case you have not guessed, we focus on the positive.

I would encourage the Zindra Alliance to remain inclusive, to focus on recruiting members and to keep the communication lines open. Don't give up on the group.

Come visit us in Bay City! Great things are happening there!!!!

Well as a person who was repeatedly implicated in some imaginary corruption for simply saying "yes" to the idea of switching the landing spot from the middle of the ocean to a centrally located land sim, I'm glad some action was taken.

I really didn't appreciate having my actions repeatedly misrepresented as "proof" of corruption. I said as much on these forums and asked as nicely as I knew how for it to stop, but was ignored.

ZA you're washing your dirty linen in public, that's never a pretty sight.