New Zindra Blog Post

I suppose that's correct, but you know, speaking for myself only, I really don't care very much. It's not as if it was difficult to find out about the Alliance or the flag contest or Blondin's meetings or Couldbe's hunt, and it's not as if there was anything exclusive about getting oneself included. At some point people are responsible for their own welfare.

In the interest of getting word of new developments to folks whose first language isn't English, it would be great to have volunteer translators (even short text is prohibitively expensive to pay to have translated--I've done it).

Useful, but lower priority in my view, would be a way to contact everybody (including native English-speakers) by means other than group notices and forums discussion. It would be great to get more people engaged. But personally I don't care so much about the fate of folks who can't bestir themselves to get involved with the simple mechanisms already in place.

Fortunately for everybody, I'm not an Alliance officer, and have no aspirations to (nor time for) such a position. Because I'm not overly concerned about involving folks who won't involve themselves, I don't think I'd be very good at it.

Going off topic for one sec I have replied to you here

http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2009/08/second-life-shoppers-be-smart-get-slapt.html

but the comments haven't got out of moderation as yet and I will not post them here

Thanks Lord! It sometimes takes quite a while, I've notice. I'll keep an eye out.

On behalf of the group officers, please find our statement on the expulsion of Lias Leandros from the Zindra Alliance group below.

Gavin Hird

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It has been decided by Alliance officers that Lias Leandros be expelled from the group. This decision has not been made lightly.

Lias, while a passionate and innovative advocate for Zindran residents, has proven disruptive to the group and abusive to its officers.

Serious and baseless allegations against the group and its officers have been made publicly. Public and unwarranted attempts to bring the group and its members into disrepute are unacceptable.

Efforts to resolve this situation have failed. Requests for apology have been disregarded. Members have left because of the disruption caused.

The continued membership of Lias Leandros in Zindra Alliance has become untenable, leading to today's decision.

Lias is of course welcome to attend Monday meetings with Blondin Linden, as is any Zindra resident.

Gavin and Lord Sullivan and everyone with the ZA and Slapt, thanks for all your voluntary work with Zindra via your groups, I'm sure it's a huge work load and effort each day.

I feel confident knowing that your are speaking with LL, as I tend to drop in and out of keeping up with how stuff is going.

It's also good to have a varying groups if there are going to be groups speaking to LL, as there are a few widely different stands and view points to be catered for. So yeh, sounds like it is going as well as can be expected.

I'm sure in time ways to get these groups & votes etc running more efficiently will come about, after all it's all only a few months old.

Also... Congrats as well Gummo and Johnnie on your appeal and land.

I just received this noticie in the Zindra group:



Kicking out people you don't like, or who disagree with you, is completely unacceptable. I was blissfully unaware of all the drama going on in this thread, but when I saw this notice, I had to see why this action was taken. After reading, I can only find Gavin's actions deplorable. I've left the group, its no longer anything I want to be associated with.

I would suggest a new group be formed that is more accepting of diverse viewpoints, much as Zindra is of diverse people with diverse tastes.

I really have posted the 4 reasons I saw abuses of power ion the Zindra Alliance group - here they are for the 3rd time.

Telling people that when an officer tells them to shut up they must do so immediately because of that person's title. A better way would be to plan a weekly meeting PRIOR to the Blondin meeting to get a set agenda in place for the Blondin meeting. Then send out an weekly GROUP VOTE on certain subjects. Have these officers do more than police the chat - have them keep an accurate log of the votes.

-Spamming in the group for members to place a magazine kiosk on their properties for a magazine that advertisers the ZA group creator's personal business and a few profit-making magazines that some officers of ZA are involved in.
A better way to do this is to AT LEAST off the Zindra Alliance people a slurl in this magazine - do not just advertise your business and your friend's business and then spam the group to help to increase your distribution numbers.

-ZINDRA FLAG CONTEST: Instead of appointing a few friends as judges to decide one texture to represent Adult Content in Second Life - take all entries and fly them side by side to show the creative quilt of Adult Content in Zindra. And do not just pick your friend's business to sponsor such a contest.
_____________________________

Why these are considered unsubstantiated I am not too sure.

Gavin sent a notecard to the Zindra Allaince group that stated I had a 3 hour conversation with Gavin regarding these issues. At that time he did admit some actions in the group made him uncomfortable. I have never spoken to Brie or Jago at all regarding any issues. When I spoke to Eddie, he said he resigned from officer position of ZA because he was tired of being questioned by alot of people. I am not the only one with concerns. I just used another venue to get some answers and changes in ZA.

No one was ever called a nazi - ever. Since I have only had a conversation with Gavin - there has been no 'blanket abuse of officers' - none would talk to me. Everything I had to say to the officers and creator of ZA has been written in these forums. And it was written here because open communication was not permitted in the ZA Group ( a rule of which I did not agree with but obeyed).

Gavin said The 'opportunity' Gavin gave me to apologize was this:On page #164 of this thread. By the angry tone and foul language I did not believe Gavin was serious that he was demanding some apology - I assumed he was still venting because he was pressured into doing something he did not want to do. By that time the bickering had sub-sided, people had asked to stop posting about it and we already had a in-group resolution in the form of the meeting planned for tomorrow morning on the island of Zindra.

I t was never my intention to be excluded fro the collective voice of Zindra by the group Linden Lab chose to address when 'taking the temperature' of the residents of Zindra.

I do not believe the relationship is between myself and the Zindra Alliance is a fail. If the 'efforts to resolve this situation' actually take place - we could move forward in harmony. I am open to the conversation that Jago, Brie, Gavin and myself have never had to resolve these issues. I do not want to get my information on the agenda items presented to Blondin on Mondays second-hand or after-the-fact.

Gavin, Brie and Jargo - Let us have that conversation we did not have to resolve any on-going issues and settle any bad feelings so you I can get my membership ZA tag back.

Given Lias past behavior in these forums, including in this thread, can you honestly say that this is merely a case of personal dislike or disagreement?

Thing is Argent if this is a group that states to be representative of all Zindra landowners then it has to accept that there will be those that might be disruptive, angry, frustrated, and those that really dont care, vocal and non vocal, but at the end of the day we are all residents of Zindra and all would be allowed access to a group that truly is about representing us. This group is not that it, and you know I think with hinesight that the use of Zindra in a group name can be misleading, I have myself created a group not in use but for future personal use, but seeing what is happening here I wonder the validity of Linden allowing us to use the name in groups, maybe we shold refrain on the grounds it is misleading and gives the wrong impression, making it look official when in fact it is not

Surely the real issue here is not whether or not the expulsion is explicable (although that is doubtless important too), but rather the issue of process?

There'll end up being a few groups. There is no way I would want some people representing me or others would want me representing them etc.. It pans out like that every time, there are some really conflicting wants for Zindra...

I actually like that the ZA did something about a problematic situation. It gives me confidence in them.

Anyone can get a group together and go to Blondin's meetings. Anyone can kick people from a group or leave and form a new group in protest. The more groups the better.

I don't think such an animal is possible.

You ever see "Life of Brian"?

Reg: “Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the f**king Judean People's Front.”
Stan: “Yeah, the Judean People's Front.”
Reg: “Yeah. Splitters.”
Stan: “And the Popular Front of Judea.”
Reg: “Yeah. Splitters.”
Stan: “And the People's Front of Judea.”
Reg: “Yea... what?”
Stan: “The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.”
Reg: “We're the People's Front of Judea!”
Stan: “Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.”
Reg: “People's Front!”
Francis: “Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?”
Reg: “He's over there.” [points to a lone man]
Reg, Stan, Francis, Judith: “SPLITTER!”

It's never felt official to me, it's seemed like a group of volunteers who can be bothered to keep up with it all consistently. I think the more voices/groups the better.. but I'd like to be able to be represented/support by one I approve of, not thrown in a scrum of conflict where everything has to tolerated merely for the sake of tolerance.

*sighs and makes super stong coffee*

Apparently there are a TON of misunderstanding, and misinformed people. As was stated a few times, the ZA did not start out to the be the voice of Zindra. It was, initially, just a place to get together and talk, help each other out. Along the way, Blondin got in the group, and started asking questions, and the meetings (Per blondin's request) got set up.

The issues at the moment are not as drastic as one may seem. A meeting between the officers, being myself, Jago, and Gavin, do not need to be made public, seeing as at these meetings we have not discussed anything that would require it. More so things like what can we do to get more involved. What steps need to be made to make it fair overall. Do we allow advertising, or do we not as a group. Things that have been brought to one or all of us that we feel should be discussed by the group before a decision of any kind is made. Open enrollment/vs invite. typical things that are discussed by any group that finds it's focus changing, and is trying to make sure that we all understand, and can work with. Asking between the 3 of us who wants to start a new thread to invite people in isn't exactly *omg, publish that so everyone can see it* stuff.
We have been discussing the need for additional roles, and other things, making sure the three of us agree so that we can bring it to the group in a reasonable way. Not to exclude anyone, but to make sure that we INCLUDE as many as possible.

It's been said that we do not speak for all of Zindra, and that is correct and not so correct. For everyone that is in Zindra, there are some major issues. While speaking to LL 1-2-1 on your personal issues is great, when they are things that affect everyone there, you are, in essence, speaking for everyone. When i tell Blondin i think it is grossly unfair that private islands have not been required to flag Adult yet, but are business as normal, while i see myself, and everyone in Zindra stifled by the adult rating, I am speaking for MYSELF. But at the same time, any action LL takes/doesn't take, is going to affect everyone. Failure of LL to make the 1.23 viewer mandatory that buries the adult flagged sims under another layer of padding and thus harder to find affects me personally. It also affects everyone of you. These are general things, that do affect everyone of us.
I would not, and have not, and will not, ever think that i speak specifically for anyone other than myself, unless i have been asked to. The problem is, we are all plagued by the same issues.

Personally, i feel that its never an issue of i like you, i don't like you. There may well be people in the group that like/dislike each other. Asking people in a group chat to take their personal sniping at each other to IMS tends to be a general SL group request, regardless of the group. One that most people do not find unreasonable. Doesn't matter if i like you, or i despise you, common courtesy says... we don't want to hear the personal BS between you, don't make it everyone's problem. Be adult and settle it yourselves.

So anyway... back to my original idea... at current moment, we have a meeting planned for tomorrow to discuss these things that need immediate attention by Blondin& LL. ZA members, and anyone that has a vested interest or is simply curious are all welcomed to attend. The text from last meeting will be handed out, and anyone that has anything to add can be discussed, and amended and added to and all those good things. We have only one request...

Please, for the love of all thats unholy, everyone have a little respect for everyone else that is there, and discuss things in a calm and rational manner. Unlike the meetings and OH with the Lindens, we are not setting any kind of time thing on it other than the start time to get everyone one in one place at the same time.

and on a side note.. It was discussed with Blondin at his last OH the feasibility of LL starting a Zindra group and simply putting the landholders/ticket swapped people in it. This cuts down on alt abuse, and other petty things. LL has the capability to do this. Its getting someone to do it that's the issue. LL can simply put everyone that filed a ticket/received a swap into a closed group and add people to it as needed.

So for anyone interested, the meeting is at 11 am PDT, (second life time) Sunday, on the Zindra sim. We shouldn't be hard to find.

oh, and on a last personal note.. I think that LL has achieved it's objective. They have, now successfully, manged yet again to find a way to keep the residents at each others throats and instead of agreeing to disagree, this is what we have. Can't we for once, prove them wrong?

~Brie

I can't speak for Nautilus, but the Bay City Alliance is really humming along quite nicely. Seems like it really hit its stride in the last couple of weeks. BlueGin Yifu has been a wonderful, inclusive leader and organizer of everyone's efforts.

What Morris said. There've been a few potholes from time to time with the Bay City Alliance, but small ones. BGY tends to do a great job of keeping things running smooth.

I'll say. If they make the 1.23 viewer mandatory without fixing the pie menu and lighting problems, 1.22 will be the last official Linden viewer I use. Failure to make the 1.23 viewer mandatory has nothing but good effects for me.

Can you start the process of proving them wrong by sitting down and discussing any lingering resentment.

They're not making it mandatory, they're nerfing it if you want to search for adult terms.

Gavin,

I'm sure you have your personal reasons for expelling Lias from teh ZA group - but I have a couple of comments to make.

1) If the ZA group is aiming to be representitive of all the landowners on Zindra, i feel uncomfortable that soemone should be expelled because of the thoughts of a small number of self appointed officers or owners of the group. This is unfair and leaves the officers open to question.

2) If something has occurred between a member and officers/other members, there should be a clear warning system in place. "One strike and you are out" without warning, is again, IMO unfair.

3) If the ZA represents Zindra landowners, sanctions like this should be put to a group vote - this is how it should have been done but it wasn't.

Right now, the only "teeth" the ZA has is the fact that Blondin is a member and see's some value in the group. I doubt LL will continue to co-operate with the ZA if this in-group bickering continues. If the ZA loses LL support, it will just be like any other group with no value to it's members only with it's officers as effective as the "SL Police Force".

In order to move forward, I believe Lias should be reinstated to the group, should she wish to and a formal membership charter written up and agreed upon by the group members - not just the officers.

Moving forward, here is what I would like to see happen (note, none of these suggestions I have are based on past events, just how I see the group SHOULD run):

1) Officers should just be there for the smooth running of the group and compiling meeting notes, sending out announcements etc. They should not get involved in personal disputes

2) Any officer should not use the group for personal gain - this includes using group messages and IM's to promote thier own businesses.

3) Any event and event sposorship that is promoted by the alliance should be opened for discussion to allow all land owners to become involved before it is announced to the public.

4) Any major sactions or decisions should be a group vote open to all members.

5) Any meetings should be held in a neutral location (LL land) on Zindra.

6) Membership of the ZA should only be open to Zindra Land owners or tenants. Tenenats should be verified by the Landlord.

7) Any normal member should be able to apply to become an officer afn then it's put to a group vote.

If we have clear cut rules, officers will not need to get involved in persoanl squabbles, merely there to enforce the rules we have all agreed on.

I believe the ZA is a good idea and i've supported it so far, but recently it seems to be going off-route somewhat. This needs to be fixed before it's too late.

Thoughts?

Gomez

Well said Gomez...and those are the things we discussed yesterday between the three of us, and rather than making a sweeping change, was waiting for tomorrows meeting to fine tune them. We had some great ideas, but there needs to be a plan.. so we made a plan, and its not set in stone, its going to be open for discussion and modification and fine tuning.

~Brie

I'm pleased to hear that Brie

Gomez

That you have not read the Zindra Alliance group charter:

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An open membership group for the merchants, land owners, residents, vendors, and designers of the new adult content continent of Zindra.

Help us make the migration as smooth and painless as possible, and build a thriving community in our new home!

For use in communicating, marketing, and planning community events and celebrations.

Modelled after the similar Bay City Alliance and Nautilus City Alliance.

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1. The Monday meetings are called Zindra Landowner meetings where we facilitate a meeting between a Linden Lab representative and individual landowners.

2. Expelling the individual in question has all to do with personal behavior and allegations and nothing to do with her voicing opinions.

3. To call someone corrupt is in my book a very serious allegation. Maybe the word corrupt has faded in strength in the American society, but in the European book corruption means bribery - unlawful exchange of monetary funds or services between a (government) official and a company or private individual. It is an act punishable by imprisonment often in combination with confiscation of property and fines.

To repeatedly call the ZA officers for corrupt is simply intolerable. By alleging corruption on parts of the ZA officers you also in this context imply Linden Lab staff being corrupted. There has been nothing of the sorts and Lias knows this, still she refuses to take back her statements.


As for your point number 5) the meetings are already on neutral land. It is a LDPW built cafe on Linden land. Zindra was until a few days ago the bottom of the ocean. After which we were accused of corruption over it being name-swapped to be across from Mosh.

As for the rest of you posting, it sounds like you want a group set up with secretaries to run it. Good luck on that one

Golam I agreed with your rationale approach, Brieanne I find condensending and you defiantly are not the type of person I would want representing my interests, firstly you say ZA did not set out to be the voice of Zindra, HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT HAVE TO BE SAID YOU ARE NOT THE VOICE OF ZINDRA, you are but ONE voice of Zindra,

Youtalk as if we are children unable of attending meetings and being heard in a respectful way, that your group has to do that because we are not capable,m I find that insulting

Seeing what has been going on within your group I would suggest my own thoughts for the meeting:

Please go openminded, make Blondin aware the you are just representing a minority and not the whole of Zindra and please don't embarrass the rest of the adult citizens by bickering between your selves while there, it does not sit well with the impression it gives of all of us.
Thank you