Creating Second Life Last Names

My RL wife and I joined at the same time, so we knew ahead of time to choose the same last name. But for those who meet online and decided they wanted an SL wedding cound then choose to change their last name to reflect the marriage if they wish.

That would be great.

-InuYasha Meiji

I want a last name that no one else has.

Profit should not be gained from exclusive rights to last names. Can you imagine in First Life if you had a child or married, that you would have to pay the state for this new child or partner to have the same last name? As if the state would deny the new child or spouse the use of this last name. It might levy a service charge for the paperwork involved, but not a profit generating fee.


In my opinion new characters would be able to choose from the drop down list a choice of various names. If they are unhappy with this selection there should be an option to generate their own last name. After they type in the new last name, there will be an option to pay for the exclusive use of that last name for 60 days, then it would be added to the name list for general use. If they choose not to pay for the exclusive use of the last name then the name will automatically appear in the name selection.

Once character and name is selected, and you are in game, you should be able to change yuor last name if a) you find a spouse and b) if you 'adopt' another, as in role play circumstance, and wish to give this adopted person your last name.


It is rather annoying with all the customability that we can not choose our own last names.

How much is this bulk account purchase? I personally wish to have a Welsh last name, and will wish to grant others the use too. And does it have to be 40? What if I only wished to purchase half that number? Or only 10? My family last name is Llewellyn, as is your avator, and I wish to use it too.

It's been over a year, Robin... what's the word on this?

this has nothing to do with anything here but we need more subjects to give the Lindens feed back on.
here are a few suggestions
Improving... appearance, land editing tooks. editing linked parts maybe the residents have ideas to how to do this would be interesting to get feedback on these subjects

ideas for, how to not take down the grid everytime
i saw the update on the front web page about the exploit and who ever wrote it said the Lindens have to figure out way to not take down the main grid how about this as a subject.

We , the residents have been telling the Lindens for a long time it is not necessary to take down the grid each time. windows xp doesnt do that all microsoft does is gives us patches and updates

so for the grid software just rolling updates for the new features patches we have to download we have always known and can see the detriment of taking down the grid and putting a new version on the Lindens never do fix the old bugs which tend to multiply on top of the new bugs and bingo you have one horrid version that nothing goes right.

so dont take down the main grid except for the roling updates from sim to sim. fix the bugs as they come on the grid so you have one stable grid then gives us patches for the new features we have to download

so between the rolling updates and the patches the Lindens would never have to take the main grid down again except of course when there is one very detrimental bug or hack.

Learn from regular game software we buy a cd with the game on it we install it and never have to reinstall it unless ti some how gets coorupt then is a good reason to uninstall it and reinstall it but for the most part we dont have to and go to the site for the latest patch or update.

just an idea Lindens as you wondered about on the main page.

i lveo the idea but i also would liek to add that i wold like to see somtihng in your profile about showing a nick name so then your name doesnt show but your nick does

thx for reading this
rico

I've just signed up to SL, and when I registered at first I found the designated surnames a bit of a strange concept. But now that I've spent some time in-world, I can see the the logicin having such a system.

It makes it much easier to remember people's names, and it does create a sense of shared experience. I'm already attached to the name "Exodus".

Also, when registering I didn't see any problem with the range of names available...there's a lot of variety - some are normal last names, some are nouns, some are humourous, and some are just plain bizarre. Something for everyone.

I say keep the system as it is.

NO MORE NEW FEATURES till you fix what we already have? The amount of major bugs in the last 2 releases have IMPACTED alot of the shop owners and land owners in the game.

Many have complained and are complaining it continues to fall on deaf ears.

I guess more of us will have to tier down and go back to basic accounts before your gonna count what we are saying.

the current system needs adjusting to make it more customisable, but the concept of a person owning a surname is wrong. Companies should be able to make arrangement for unique names which are relavant to thier company but thats it.

haters.. just pass the proposal and add this feature to the next download.. geez this has been going on for well over a year now.. and there are definitely more "yay's" than "nay's" so just do it.. who is against it.. Just dont buy a new name.. Simple as that.

I have an axe to grind on this one! I only joined last week but, while buying my First Land, discovered the person buying the next plot actually has the last name I wanted. It wasn't on your list when I signed up, so I lost out in the draw. Annoying, or what??!

I don't see why you couldn't adopt four simultaneous, straightforward approaches:

1] Assuming you already have a database of pre-set last names, allow searching. Then, anybody with a 'fresh' first name can sign up with the last name of their choice - if it's already taken, they'll have to try a new combination.

2] Randomise the last names on offer at signup. I suspect this is what you're already doing, but you could make it FAR more clear: basically, if a user doesn't know what name to choose, they could refresh until something catches their fancy.

3] Allow purchase/swap of existing names. Bit of a nuisance for you but - as you have everything so beautifully logged - a small administration fee would surely cover the minimal adjustment needed to transfer the records for 'Name A' to 'Name B'.

4] Offer a premium service affording custom names. You could (and should) charge quite a bit for this, because of the likelihood of - umm, name 'prospecting'. And you'd have to insert a new tranche into your system for each name bought, so a high cost would be justified.

I know I'm nowhere near the first to be thinking along these lines - and I can't quite understand why you're not doing it?!

One request: when you adopt this type of policy on names, please allow current residents a free change if their required name is already in the pre-set list?

Thank you
CH

I'm up for it

Both options sound fun

My only concern is the "name baron" one. Hopefully you will only be able to own the rights to 1 name at a time.

I just hung around long enough for a good name to come up. Wasn't looking for this one in particular, but it works!

I agree with Ghoti but also can you make it so we can changge our first names also?

Ok, who do I have to beg at least to have a certin name appear on that fustrating names list?

I have no participated in Second Life, dispite all of its promises, because I dislike the names in that selection. Please, I would like to participate in Second Life. Please, who do I send this request to? How do they determine these names?


signed

Fustrated

For now it's not possible to create a specific last name. The names project is still waiting for development time. I appreciate all the great ideas, and when we're ready to finalize the design and get started I'll let everyone know.

Since each of us has a unique key. Change the database server to track by that, and allow me to just change my name to be anything, whenever I wish. Have the client update displays of everybody else to take into account my new name I just put on in their friends list, have the contact card update since its done by unique key anyhow..... And have me log in using my email address. Then if people all want to be John Smith.. Ok, they can be.

Its very easy for other game clients to allow us to respawn with different names off the same account, this would be a mechanism that is familiar to those that play other MMORPG's. And for those that scream "MY NAME IS ME!" then dont change your name. Nobody says you have to......

I created a basic account strictly to RP as a Gorean freewoman. I now find I need to give that freewoman an in-game male relative, so I quickly went to make another account, only to find that the last name was gone. So I started searching the knowledge base and was told I could ask for a certain last name on the forums. My search for the proper thread for that request brought me here.

I think the second option, to create a new last name possibility, will be the most useful, so that someone can create a last name and then get a number of friends to join and choose it. Since as I understand it, last names are retired after one hundred uses, the name would probably be around long enough for the purpose. This option allows us to add a form of content to SL that is very important, for names are very important.

I agree that it is not wise to use one's own last name here. I agree that granting anyone exclusive right to a name will lead to name barons. IRL we don't have exclusive rights to our names, after all.

I still have not found the proper thread on which to request one more account with the name 'Philo.' I will keep looking. Of course, I can retire the present account and make two new ones with the same last name if I must, but Thalia Philo is already somewhat known in some Gor sims.

I think the first option opens up a fairly significant exploitation hole, so shouldnt even be considered.

The second one has promise, but has to include a fee that actually qualtifies someones desire to do it, without making it unreachable... Say, $20 one-off. This prevents a griefer hammering a Teazer training session, getting nuked, logging in immedaitely and changing their name...they retain all their inventory, but no bans apply...."lets do that again!". Sickos. By making the fee.... thought provoking, you'll prevent just that situation...

does it occur to any one that some ones hand is eternaly out here in SL.. fee this fee that...... well.... NO not in favor of fee to have my own created name and even TSO gave up charging to change name.... and I REALY hate the stupid names to choose from and that i can't get the same name for my wife to be. IT seems to me would be lots simpler programing to stop with the limits and try some freedom ... but must be a foriegn concept.

Who do I have to (insert verb here) to get a plausable Welsh name here? And specifically the Welsh name I am searching for? It is rather a gross oversight that with all the other customazations, they could not spend a moment and devote some dev tome to allowing us to choose our own last names.


Who comes up with that goddess-awful list anyway! I mean really.... where would we even offer suggestions to?


I have the desire and means to start my own island and invest here, but I will not unless the choice of names I wish are available, to me and anyone else I would have come to this island-estate.

Other MMOG are on the horizon, I suppose I shall go there and choose the last name I wish. In a media where the text of a name, by that I mean the letters as well as the name itself, is a principle means of communication, to deny the selection of a last name when varient number codes are available is .... stupid.

Take into account that this thread has been going on for well over a year now, and has almost 400 posts at the moment. It's quite impossible to assume that everyone posting here looks back to what has been written, since one cannot expect that anyone posting here has the time and the patience to research what has been said, what was discussed, what the issues are, and what everybody wishes have been so far.

I did indeed read all the posts — I'm an old Internet user, from the time when "Netiquette" was important, and at the time you would be unable to participate in any kind of discussion if you didn't take the time to read all past conversations and related documentation (like FAQs, for instance). Nowadays, people can enter conversations at the middle of it and ignore what has been discussed so far.

It means that the very same questions are asked faithfully every month, as new people arrive, ignore what has been already asked, and redo from scratch

To recap briefly:

1. Last names are stored on LL's database servers differently from first names. First names are free text fields; last names are an index into another table, which lists all available last names. The reasons for that are obscure, but they were tied into the concept that the same "family" would probably share similar views (meaning, in terms of SL, that they would probably own land and objects specific to a group). To improve database accesses for those situations, it was far more efficient to use an index instead of a free text field.
   
2. Back when SL started, there was a (social) maximum of 150 avatars per family. The reasons for that can be explained by reading this article. Since SL grew slowly, it was expected that a large number of last names would be along for several months, allowing people to join a "family" of their choice. Nowadays, however, we get 30 to 50 times that number per day; thus, "last names" can get exhausted very very quickly, in days, and not months.
   
3. Adding a last name is a very costly operation (in terms of database access) since it means updating a different table, and lots of operations have to do queries on both tables (for the first name and the last name). One thing is having a few thousand last names; another is having 500,000 last names (one per user — even if two people select the same last name, it means two entries on the table). There is a clear trade-off between efficient storage (just an index which can be quickly searched for) and more flexibility (storing a text string which has to be checked). I can imagine that the current model, for instance, can quickly find a match by seeing if the last name matches (a very fast operation, since it's just an index to a few thousand items), and only then matching for the first name (it's slower, but since you'll have a maximum of 150 avatars with the same last name, you won't need to search for 500,000 names...). Changing this algorithm means things will take more time — in other words, more lag. Also it means that the current system would need to be carefully rewritten.
   
4. Comparisons with "other MMOGs" are always difficult and hard. Second Life has similarities, of course — 3D avatars with names — but it also has a quite complex system of ownership, group ownership, and permissions. Every time you move but a single pixel, all this has to be checked constantly: are you on a place where you're allowed to be? Are your objects allowed to be used on this place? Are you on a ban list? And so on. This requires several iterations on database checks just to make sure you're "allowed" to move a single pixel in space. The more efficient the algorithms are written, the faster they can run. Thus the limit of 25 groups; thus the limit on the last name to be chosen from a table instead of making up your own; etc.
   
5. When faced with the option of giving users the choice of selecting a new last name, Linden Lab faces a problem. With 2/3 of the active users being non-paying users, if they got a choice of a last name, they would be putting more stress on the database, which would have to be endured by all users. So there is an issue of fairness and justice. Not all people want to have a free choice of last name; the very few that want that will create lag for everyone else involved; thus, they should be charged for that privilege. The issue is: how much. This is partially what has been discussed. Consuming more database resources for your own benefits should come at a higher price.
   
6. You can, right now, select your last name if you buy "bulk accounts". These are a set of 40 avatars that you can buy for a discount, optionally tie them to a private island (or a whole estate), and you can select your own last name of choice that will be shared by those 40 avatars. Thus, Melisande, in your case, you'd be able to give your customers a choice of last name if you wish. This model has been used very often in the past by universities and companies who came to Second Life and wish all their avatars to be uniquely identified with a specific project (even Anshe's Dreamland has a special last name "ACS" to identify a set of users as employees of Anshe Chung). You might argue that it's far too expensive to pay for 40 avatars (even with a discount!) just to get your desired last name; but remember that you're not paying for a last name: you're really paying for more CPU power spent by the database engine when searching for names, by introducing a new, non-standard name, for your own privilege.
   
7. One item very high on the list of Second Life's attraction is the ability to easily protect your Intellectual Property rights on your creations by tagging them with your avatar name. Since avatar names cannot ever change, this effectively means that all items in Second Life are very efficiently digitally signed and protected, and that you can have a very reasonable way to confirm the ownership of your IP — you just need to show the "Creator" field to prove your claims.
   
   This also allows the reverse — non-repudiation if someone is accused of abusing the system with a specific object (ie. sim bomb, push gun, etc). Through the creator/owner tag combination you're able to pinpoint exactly who has abused the system. There is no way to say "it was not me".
   
   If at some point in time people are able to change their names, you create a very serious problem of loss of identification and non-repudiation. Sure, from the database's point of view, you're still "the same person", and Linden Lab will always be able to track you down and confirm or deny your claims. But the current unambiguous link between your avatar name and your key allows everybody in SL to visually identify your claims. "Look at this object, it says it's mine!" Right now, you can confirm that claim by just selecting the Hover tips; but if everybody would be able to change their names, this would simply be not true, a non-technologically-savvy person would have no way to confirm what you're saying, since they wouldn't be able to see the object's ownership/creation keys, just the avatar names...
   
   This would naturally confuse (and delay) issues on abuse reports, meaning more Linden time spent on dealing with those conflicting and ambiguous issues (ie. dealing with who is who!). More Linden time that has to be charged to someone — either to everybody in the world, or just to those that wish to change their names.

Notice that any claims that Linden Lab is "not able to deliver" or "hasn't got the technical ability to deal with a simple issue" are simply not true. Don't assume that everything is simple just because you say so. Fine-tuning algorithms that deal with databases with half a million records is not your average piece of cake. Just a minor tweak can have unpredictable consequences — and we are always complaining about the "unstability" of Second Life. It's exactly because those "minor things" are changed without people thinking about its consequences. It doesn't mean it's impossible; it only means that very careful thought has to be used when wishing to change something so dramatic, at the database level, when for nthe common user it seems to be "a triviality". But then again, the purpose of this whole thread is also to explain why things are done by Linden Lab differently — they simply have such a different technology and so different approaches to dealing with things that simply don't apply on other MMOGs/virtual world platforms (example: who cares about the content creator tag in There.com? There.com's ToS states that all your uploaded content is property of There.com. End of story. But Second Life states the reverse!)

I think that this roughly summarises what has been discussed so far. My apologies for the ones who have read this a hundred times before, and are now reading everything for the 101st one.

To summarise:

1. Selecting your own last name costs CPU power from the database servers, thus reducing performance overall. This will make everything laggier, if that option is widespreadly used. Someone should pay for creating that loss of performance: either we all pay (even if we don't use the feature) or just the ones wishing to have their personal last names pay (like it happens with the bulk account product).
   
2. Changing your name — first or last — means no more visual identification of intellectual property rights by users who don't have the technicall prowess to be able to look at avatar keys instead of avatar names (ie. perhaps 95% of the in-world population). To sort IP issues deriving from name changes, Linden Lab's employees will need to spend far more time than they do right now (where confirmation of ownership/creation is done visually and unambiguously). Thus, the question is if everybody should pay for that (we're going to have a smaller slice of Linden Liaison/tech support time available for our own questions), or just the ones who wish to change their names.

These are, I think, the real reasons for discussing these issues, and see clearly if a change that affects half a million users dramatically is appropriate, if only a few dozens (or even hundreds) are demanding a radical change — and not always willing to pay for the consequences of creating a more unstable, laggy world

Thanx, Gwyneth, for your verbose answer. But it still doesnt anser the question of who one has to (verb of choice) to add a name to that list? I mean, someone is (insert verb here) someone to have their name placed on that list.

Ive been posting here for the better part of 5 months now, with no real movement. As you note, this thread has had newer people come and post for the same reasons: ability to change or choose their own last name.

I have read the posts, and I know it is coded. Whatever. The reality here is people wish to choose and share last names for a varity of reasons:

1) Unity, married couples wish to share a last name.
2) Siblings, people wish to role-play siblings, or adopt a sibling, and a fundelmental part of this is a shared surname.
3) Choice: With all that is craftable here, not allowing a person to choose their own name is still grossly short-shighted. Especially when one has only that horrible name list to go by. Think of all the varrients of the same name! Llywelyn has no ness then 15 varients, and yet are any of them available? No, the selection is dumb and that is why people are upset, come here for answers, and get none.


I had the same run around, the helpers said place the name you wish to request on the forums, and is there a forum request list for names? no. Instead we have this now stale argument with no solution in sight.

Well, enough of my rant. No solutions means I shant join the community nor invest here (it is all about money right?)