No-fly zones are killing the fun

Ban lines are not the real issue. SL needs both, public AND private areas.
Tansportation requires roads, airfields, harbors. Even a teleporter must have some location to roost on. But, like in Real Life, nobody profits from creating and maintaing public lands. So they tend to go unkept, disappear, or never be created at all.

I'll admit, I use banlines too, sex, or when I want to be alone...for those times someone shows up and annoys you while you're busy, all sorts of things...

BUT

I turn them back off when I leave, not leave it on constantly. I hate hitting them, and I figure others do too.

They do need to be made more visible though. That whole flying, flying, flying, BAN, ejected, item returned with no chance to even see the lines before you're against them is just stupid.

Ban lines or not anyone can still look into your house so you still have no privacy.all I want is a way to sail the waterways go from one sim to the other.nothing worse than cruseing along with a boat full of friends and WAMMO eveyone is scattered boat is who knows where.

I respect privacy,But really thier is none you can still be spyed on.a warnning system or less "viloent" barrier would help.Many just want to go from point A to point B and enjoy the scenery and awesome places that have been built.Like real world if you live on a waterway,their should be a way to get accross it.a barrier along the edge of the water ok fine or even a tempory granted access 10-15 seceonds to get across.I cannot place a fence across the waterway at my house in RL,and I pay hundreds of REAL taxes.its a risk you take when building next to the water public access and all.So why should it be allowed in SL?

If their is a large water mass then ok let it extend in the water fine,just as long as i can get around it the "saw tooth" is a nightmare on small waterways,Really restricts boaters and flyers,Who is fighting for our rites?I own land too,I pay L$ what about my rites to to explore?I'm not going into anyones YARD I'm on a "public" waterway.it is an issue and needs to be corrected same goes for roadways.I live next to the water so i expect boaters thats the choce one makes liveing their.Like liveing by a road you expect cars traveling on them and accept it.

What right of way? I choose to make my land have no right of way to you- you aren't entitled to one by default. Public footpaths? Not on my private land.

I don't own a skybox. And it isn't always for sex. I do enjoy private conversation, cybercuddling, whatnot.

Its group access, so go to 200 meters and be happy, unless youre an explicit ban, then 800. And I'm not taking the lines down.

That being my point, that we don't have that sort of public protection. I have to assume you never travel other than by TP? I may not currently be entitled to right-of-way by default, but why not? What would be so bad about a ten-second window of movement for someone to travel over a bit of land, moving at speed? What about dodgy areas like sim borders and especially sim corners? A small buffer zone to allow travel between to adjacent banlined parcels?

The utilitarian stance here would probably be to point out that more people would benefit from such things than would lose out.

Because you don't own the land below you or help pay teir on that land. I'm on a sim corner- and I would not want any of my privacy (as little as there already is) compromised further. The utilitatrian thing here would be to point out the one paying LL for the land would lose out.

Those who pay LL set the rules for others travelling on their land. I'm going to turn my object entry off before I log out for the night.

That's the bottom line. Ban lines don't provide privace. You can be seen through ban lines, you can be harassed (griefed) though ban lines, SL needs a real privacy tool (phantom zone, parcel basements, interior spaces, simlets, *something*) to replace the current real-life-fence metaphor that doesn't work.

But again, why? I also don't pay anything to play to be able to fly about *above* banlines.

I wonder if we're taking too RL an attitude here. It's physically impossible to steal anything from someone's land, there's no way to cause lasting damage and with auto-return on littering's barely an option either. I'd the rate of newbie 512s with banlines implies people seem to think that having land in SL means that by default it somehow needs protection from the population.




That's not very utilitarian. That's an uber-capitalist answer, surely? Rather than a "needs of the many" answer, which is... I'm getting side-tracked here. Lose out? On what? The ability to hide from people, as opposed to freedom of movement in a game designed with that sort of restrictionless activity in mind?





I'm tempted to set up an experiment with banlines on my land and a friend who's good with camera-angles, prim-movement and so on.

Its very utilitarian. I pay for the land, I don't want the uninvited on it. Simple enough. If I wanted open to the public land with unrestricted use - I'd change the settings.



I have enough stress in rl without part of my personality flaring up worrying about my friends who feel safer knowing that the land is group access, and a few exemptions, only. I try to protect them, plus i find it 'icky' for those not welcome to be walking into my home in SL. I wouldn't like it in RL, I don't like it in SL.

Sure, SL is a social game, but even in a social game peoples minds need a haven to go to that they know is safe from others. Look at Asheron's Call and the private homes - safe from everyone not on a trusted list. And the rest of the AC world? Free to travel.

My property on SL is my AC private lodge. A safe haven in an open ended world.

Like, OMG, you know, ADD A PIECE OF LAND to the edge of sims that isn't purchasable, 5m wide, 256 to 261 location that allows a path between sims. Like, OMG, how hard is that to understand? "Add a buffer zone."

That would work, but they'd still hit the ban.

For once I agree with Banking Laws on this that it is not the responsibility of the land owner to allow for public space unless they are charitable enough to do so and with no incentives and it still costing money to own such land very few people will do so. It is really up to LL to either make the sim x meters wider where x meters is a frame border around the entire sim that is no build, short return, etc... and was open without restrictions or keep sims physically the same size but pre-allocate that x size space of land for the above use.

While I find it hard to understand Banking's stubbornness when he has all the privacy of a guy in a metaphorical glass house he does have a point in the fact that LL did provide the tools and have rightly or wrongly (the latter in my view) decided to implement them in such a broad and liberal way as to allow such usages and landowners can't really be blamed for using them as designed even if it violates the spirit and the intent of SL.

..which is exactly the way I read the original suggestion.

It's very utilitarian. I pay for the land, I don't want the uninvited's cameras in it, or their prims or particles, or their vehicles where I can't see them. I pay for the land, I don't want my neighbor's no-access zones making stuff on my land break. What, I can't get that? Why not?

There are no unlimited rights anywhere. You've got to make do with limited rights. And you don't seem to either understand that you've only got limited rights, not accept the principle that there are good reasons for any limitations:

You go far far beyond that. You're asserting the right to prevent access anywhere above your land, without restrictions, using whatever means you consider necessary, whether there's any benefit to you from doing so.

If you can do that without impeding anyone else's rights, great. But you can't, no matter what you do, because you can't keep cameras out.

After a quick google... SL doesn't provide anything similar to AC private homes, short of a private sim.

I wish it could be, but it isn't.

If they're acting in ignorance, no.

This isn't about "blaming landowners".

This is about "how can this be fixed".

And Banking Laws is standing on a rock in the stream demanding that the water rushing past him respect his rights, while the rest of us are trying to figure out how to build a bridge over it.

Reread the previous posts in this thread and tell me that you can honestly say that non of you are going about it in a very direct way, I agree solutions that would allow Banking to be paranoid and xenophobic would be nice while allowing free movement but so far every proposal has been shot down including several good ones including teleporting directly to the other side of a parcel if your not on the access and invisibility not because they're unworkable but it doesn't seem like this is a big priority for LL.

Different people have a different idea of what privacy entails. For me it's having some peace without constantly dealing with people who I don't know and don't want to be dealing with when all I want is some quiet time at my house, so I have a choice between either ejecting them the moment they appear which isn't terribly nice, or just prevent them appearing there in the first place.

If someone gets some kind of a kick out of watching typing hands when I'm with a friend, or watching me change, or build, or sort my inventory with their camera from another parcel, I honestly don't care, although a suggestion to them to seek professional help comes to mind .

As far as griefing goes, mute will take care of any shouting, no build/object entry takes care of having anything rezzed and a tp home if they choose to fly above the restriction lines takes care of that as well.

That's what used to happen on sim border crossings, and it made access controls on sim borders a nightmare because (a) you couldn't see them and (b) they throw you all over the place just walking along and brushing them.

The ONLY solutions that come anywhere near what we need is the phantom zone or private "simlet" (eg, parcel basements) solutions *replacing* ban lines.

Explain what the hell you mean by this, because there's both good and really really bad ideas going under this name.

Actually, you DO own the rights to the air above your home in RL (in the U.S., at least), but you are federally mandated to provide an easement for vehicular travel. Look it up...

BTW... you also own the ground below your home, as deep as you can dig, which is why a land owner is also the owner of mineral rights on and below that land. The only exception that I am currently aware of is in the case of Liberty Island, where NY state owns the land above the water line & NJ owns the land below it.

I don't know how I know this blather, but I do...

Another suggestion would be to restrict "banned" borders to within 1m of any phys buildings on/above the land... if my tallest building is 10m, the height on the banned zone is 11m; if I have 10m sky-home at 256m, another ban rests from 255m - 267m.

Maybe LL can even implement an easement policy for free flight throught the 200-256m altitudes, permitting passage through these banned areas without the ability to adjust altitude until you exit the boundary.

Access-restricted land ends at 40ish meter above ground level; unless you're explicitly banned you shouldn't encounter problems at 200m and up, unless you're in a vehicle and object entry is turned off for all residents.

And I build skyboxes at those heights quite often..and I will use a security orb if I need to. Not your land, mine. Deal with it.

SL has expanded. Lots has changed...some good, some bad. Unless youve been in game for a while you probably don't notice.

The Nieuport 17's (Thx Cubey nice plane!) engine hummed loudly in the thin air as the small biplane passed 1700 feet. Nothing could be seen above me, or below me as the bitter cold air swept past my numb face, protected only by a thin wool scarf. I slid the yoke to the left and felt the frail machine respond to my command. The sun shone down, glinting off the shiny fabric and I smiled widely as I realized that I was in heaven up here.
I could not see the earth from this altitude so I didn't bother looking down there...it was all up here...here is where the pilots lived...this was where they had fun...where they spent their hard earned L$. It was all for this experience right here. The wind buffeted the plane a bit and I straightened it out reflexively, a bit of rudder here...oops...adjust here...and like a well tuned machine the biplane steadied itself once more and I felt the happiness seep back into my very soul.....

....Suddenly I lost everything....the plane darted to the left and I felt the adrenaline begin pumping madly throughout my body...something was terribly wrong! I forced the flight yoke hard to the right and smashed down onto the rudder pedals, this spin was terrible. All my training told me I was doing the right thing now....I didn't want to die now...please not now...

...The plane plummeted further...faster...my thoughts went out to my SL mom and dad. What would they tell my little SL Brothers and Sisters, that their older Brother Ben is dead...The altimeter's needle shot down, lower and lower..."Come on!" I screamed as the plane broke through the clouds revealing the most wonderful shade of green...I couldn't breath...my heart pumped quickly and I felt the wind rushing past me like a thousand needles...I prayed to the Linden Gods to save me from this death spiral and closed my eyes tightly as the green field slowly took on more detail, time seemed to slow down...there I was, seconds from dying. The plane was dead in my hands and the engine cried madly for power, such a beautiful plane...how could it betray me? How could such a piece of ART turn on me? Then I noticed something...something I hadn't seen before in the terror of the moment..."...This Parcel is Full"

Then nothing....(had to log out)

Yet another aspect of the environment that I wasn't aware of. Thanks, Kitty.