Anshe's land for sale

I love ya anshe.
No offence intended. But I cant help but picture you as that asian-american mafia leader in kill bill vol1.

Ever since I saw you in this one outfit.
Since then I have been afraid of saying the wrong thing and losing my head.

As for the for sale signs, they are not bad. I have seen worse.
Thanks again for helping me with that riiki/milu land deal.

The question and response in the poll could be better, possibly some links to pictures showing what Anshe's for sale lots and the kind Anshe perceives as the alternative would have produced a different result.

I feel sure the poll results will be affected by the high percentage of hostility that meets virtually everything that Anshe's posts. This hostility occurs regardless of what Anshe says.

I don't think there can be much question that For Sale signs in every plot will produce more sales faster than not having for sale signs. Perhaps it would break up the monotony to have say a hundred different style of signs, with some colored to blend in with the background, and some made to lay flat on the ground and be readable only from the air.

Why would it be a "joke" to advocate classified listings in the game, many ppl have raised it? That was what was under discussion. And why is it a "joke" merely to try to reason why some tactics are used that you differ with -- it's a discussion, not a joke fest.

And what you're describing is only good for looking as far as your av can see on one sim. It does no good when you're trying to see all the land available in the game or in 4 sims nearby. And flying at night, the showing of land ownership or sale status isn't always as visible as you might think, and a bright for-sale sign shows up faster on the draw then pulling down a game menu and peering at color coding. The discussion is about making land more visible, and the in-game tools are not enough, and player behaviour itself illlustrates that spinnning boxes work, so land barons use them. Your appeals to logic are based on the utopian ideals I mentioned, not the practical experience of the land barons.

There are several ways to get rid of ugly for-sale signs: a) improve in-game classified advertising; b) make pretty for-sale signs, especially varied ones and distribute them around to land barons for free or for low cost (especially needed are better spinning boxes) -- how about if you script, say, a frisky squirrel that leaps from tree to tree with a hover text that says "buy 1024 acres here"; c) or stay on your own sim and run a socialist police state so you don't have to look at the ugly features of capitalism

This was moving along as a perfectly civil and reasonable debate until you showed up with your baggage and decided to insult and sneer.

Since you decided to use a hectoring tone with a phrase like "You're joking, right?" and "have to be the most unnecessary thing in SL -- aside from land barons" -- I'll note: a) your socialist slip is showing again, Ulrika -- why are we not surprised that you hate the evil imperialist running-dog capitalists LOL? and b) you are near-sighted if you think a statement about land advertisement ability in the whole game -- including over on to the next sim -- is solved by merely pulling down that menu (again, a game feature not known to newbies).

Let the record show I don't destroy civil decorum, I respond when certain oldbies -- or semi-oldbies or faux oldbies -- use their hectoring and condescending tone.

Oh, gee, this is scientific.

Makes no difference to me. I'm not really around too many of your signs.

I guess if they ever bothered me *that* much, I'd sink a bunch of money into land in an effort to manipulate the market in such a way as to make life really, really difficult on the real estate business. I figure it would only take a few grand US$ to become a major pain in the ass.

But for now, I dont care, 'cause it doesn't affect me.

-AP

*not* the best tool possible for sure.

You're joking, right? You can search by size, price, and M or PG rating. That's it.

But, let's say I'm working on this problem.

You're probably right. My largest SL land purchase was not planned. I wasn't looking to buy that much land. It was an impulse buy.

People often don't have a sense of what they want until they see it. My first RL home was like that when I sold it. Most of the people who were interested in the property had seen it driving by. My real estate agent was in heaven because the sign in front of the house was sending a boatload of potential new clients to her door.

I was selling my second RL home (I'm on my third LOL), and a neighbor complained about the realtor's "Home For Sale" sign at the end of the street because she felt that it was generating additional traffic on our Cul-de-sac.

These are just normal real estate problems I think. SL is a little different because there is a lot more land for sale in a given area and it turns over a lot quicker. But the same principles apply.

Btw, Prok, your floating boxes in Ravenglass are the best I've seen.

While the game has a very good built-in tool for finding available parcels, it is sort of lacking in the ability to get a really good feel for the plot, short of visiting them. IRL, one would use MLS in a similar fashion, but in order to get a good feel for the area, sometimes it is necessary to do visit to the area. When you do that, surely you'll see 'For Sale' signs out - as they are in SL.

When these signs first appeared in SL, they bothered me, but I soon realized that they did offer some advantage: being able to easily see which plots were for sale when visiting a sim. In addition, Anshe responded to the our disdain for the ugly box signs by creating her Oriental themed signs.

zugzug,
arbitrage is a natural occurence in any open market. are you reacting to the term baron as if it really was some kind of aristocracy, and not just a nickname for land traders.

the only convincing point you've made so far is the one on regressive tier costs, the lever by which land traders are able to effectively access the price imbalabance between the auctions and inworld. but that system recognizes that larger land owners create lower operating cost for LL in respect to server space. SL could not recognize large projects without this structure.

i can understand your support for the removal of the regressive tier structure. firstly, you repeatedly refer to it as a tax, and not a service charge. secondly, it would discourage large land owners, and force people to work together to realize and large scale project. it really would remove any choice from players in regards to political involvement as they could not isolate themselves.

would this really be good for sl?

You're joking right? I guess you are a newbie and I am an oldbie.

I'm not talking about your radar map. Instead click on that map and it will pull up a map of the entire grid. Maximize it to fill your screen. You can see everything including all land for sale everywhere. Simply click on a plot you're interested in and hit "teleport". Woosh. You're there. No for-sale signs needed.

Now look at that. I made a point, it didn't take two pages, and I didn't have to call anyone names. That's two lessons for you for free. Take them to heart and you'll be well on your way to becoming and oldbie too.

~Ulrika~

Yes, but I think that map is only updated once a day with properties for sale. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

I still think that tastefully done signs on the parcels can be helpful for someone looking for a new home.

I have nothing against Anshe, personally. Especially because she thinks my place in Afton is a "beautiful estate"

Yep, and you can't get the price that way.

Edit: you can fly there of course, but the best tool possible would let you see the price from the map.

What is arbitrage many would ask? Intuitively, people associate arbitrage with "buying low and selling high". More formally, an arbitrageur purchases a set of financial assets at a low price and sells them at a high price simultaneously. This timing element is important: namely, because of simultaneity, arbitrageurs require no outlay of personal endowment but only need to set up a set of simultaneous contracts such that the revenue generated from the selling contract pays off the costs of the buying contract, i.e. construct a portfolio consisting of purchased assets and short-sold assets which yields positive returns with no commitment. The simultaneity ensures that the arbitrageur carries no risk as none of his own personal resources are ever on the line.

One can argue that, in the "real" world, there is rarely a case of pure arbitrage. Indeed, most of what the financial community calls "arbitrage" is really just some very fast or short-term speculation. When speculating, agents usually purchase the assets first and sell them afterwards (or short-sell the assets first and purchase them afterwards), thus they must commit some of their own resources, at least temporarily -- and they still run the risk that they will not get to dispose of the second half of their operation at the anticipated price. Pure arbitrage, in contrast, is simultaneous and riskless - the quintessential "free lunch".

Because pure arbitrage generates wealth without risk it is always strongly regulated. However in SL it is not. Because of our regressive tier system, it makes land speculation a very low-risk proposition virtually guaranteeing profit. To fix this we either need to tax land sales or eliminate the regressive tier structure (one or the other) to add risk to what has become pure arbitrage. Currently RL purchasing power -- not risk -- is the only barrier to become a land baron. As an example, recall how SL flooded the market with new land. While I'm sure it cut into profits, I didn't eliminate a single full-tier (or more) land baron.

I would like to note too that I don't oppose pure arbitrage directly, although I feel it should be regulated. Rather I oppose how a system with a massive, massive regressive incentive leads to land monopolies and the exploitation of small SL players. I don't think they should have to pay extra to line the pockets of someone who purchases land using a regressive tier system without risk. *whew* That's a sentence.

~Ulrika~

Yes! That's exactly what we need. We need ownership and cost to pop up on a mouse over.

~Ulrika~

Huh? That won't work. That's as useful as being able to tell what all the clubs are that have avs in them because the map shows you little stacked green circles. It tells you nothing about the FPS rate in those areas, the activity, the music -- nothing.

When people go shopping for land, they want to see land, not a big grid with colors.
They want to see the flora and fauna around it and the natural features. Putting a for-sale sign immediately conveys, er, that a particular parcel right in your real-time real (virtual) view underneath your feet as you fly is FOR SALE.

OK, everybody who shops for land using the method Ulrika is identifying raise your hand.

OK, everybody who has bought land and pressed "return" on a for-sale sign raise you hand.

Ah, yes, the "press returns" have it...

Thanks, Shack, that means a lot. But such is the loathing of floating boxes, especially a sea of them, especially when you take pictures, that I nuked them, leaving only one for the whole area. I'll see if I need to put them back now that the pictures are done, but they are an eyesore, no matter how you do it.

I'm not kidding about making little squirrels or birds with the information instead of traditional signs (I mean that move). If somebody knows how to do this and wants to do this, contact me. Yes, oldbies, I see you doubled up with ROFL, but wouldn't you rather look out over a sea of a flock of birds rather than a flock of signs?

You're kidding, right? How does a for-sale sign tell you about the FPS rate, activity, and music?

My point is that a for-sale sign is not inherently necessary because the system provides high-resolution images of exactly what plots are for sale. One must simply click, teleport, and visit them. Perhaps it's me who's confused! Do your signs allow avatars to view what's for sale anywhere in the entire grid, provide FPS rate, activity, and music? If not, then I think I just smacked you down.

~Ulrika~

I can make those birds for you, Prok.

I have no issue with Ashne personally. However to a newcomer in the game seeing signs plastered all over the place gives rise to the term "Land Baron". People often make assumptions based on what they see, not what they know.

You're kidding, right? You can't understand *analogy*? Just as a map showing all the clubs or hang-outs for AVs shows you little green stacked circles WITHOUT FPS rates and types of music -- information you need to get from fly-in visits -- so a big grid showing all land for sale doesn't show you up close what all that land LOOKS LIKE. That's pretty obvious.

This is an ANALOGY. There's no smack-down here obviously. Let me break it down in bite size pieces again. Little green circles in a stack on a map tell you where the clubs are and the hangouts. But they don't give you the sensory experience *all at that level* about what it's like to lag if FPS is bad, or what the taste in music is.

BY ANALOGY, the sensory experiences of land include -- size and shape of plot, nearby builds, natural look, etc. etc. Obviously FPS is a factor too once you land, but music isn't relevant unless the seller left something in the URL and that information is not what we're asking signs to convey. The point is to illustrate that the actual shopping habits of real people involve flying around, having sensory experiences, and making emotional impulse buys. They don't involve applying scientific materialism to grids and charts. Terrible how human nature never fits into utopian ideologies!

Clicking on it and teleporting isn't the same as going to it and seeing it. IN fact, you could use your method to click and teleport, but then OBVIOUSLY you'd still need to look around once you got there and TMOT, you will fly towards a bright for-sale sign if it is there when you land!

Just to put it into stark perspective: if you method was "enough" there'd be no need to click and teleport, duh. But since people need to click and teleport, we're talking about their sensory experience AFTER THEY LAND.

Face it, Ulrika. You hate the act of buying and selling. *Shudders*. Ick! It's...capitalism! Germs! Get it away from me! You wish a Bolshevik committee just distributed the land, after helping themselves generously to a big chunk for free first...oops, did I say that?

I guess a good example would be stock options? If you exercise them, then there is no risk because you immediately sell them for a profit. If you can't make a profit, then you just let them expire. no risk there except that the company that gave them to me went bankrupt in 2002.

I don't know. Maybe I just worry too much, but I don't see a sure thing anywhere. I see risk everywhere.

I am not quite sure what you expected when you neg rated her w/o even having the decency to talk to her by your own admission. I'd prolly ban your ass from my land too if I was treated so poorly.

Next time try some civil conversation, politely explaining your problem, and then asking her to do something about it.

Teleporting means going to it and seeing it.

I guess you are a new player, which means I'm breaking with etiquette by giving you a hard time. Sorry. I apologize.

~Ulrika~