SL Needs to Learn to Appreciate Its Members

Oh - 1 more thing - no more posts about the 'economy' please - I can go to GOM later and buy a million dollars and do NOTHING in world to earn it - so how the hell is that an economy?

If I'm Bill Gates, I can go convert all my dollar-denominated cash and securities to Pounds Sterling and become the richest man in England despite the fact that I haven't earned a dime of it there. Does that mean that England doesn't have a real economy, or does it simply mean that economic assets are transferrable from one economy to another?

It means - a lot of you people talk a lot of shit about having an economy in a suposedly insular virtual world where you can go to the Gaming Open Market and make yourself a millionaire overnight without earning a single $ of it in your virtual world - Bill Gates made his money in America and could quite rightly take it to England with him - please stop talking crap.

STABLE ECONOMY!!!!!!!!! Lmao - I have the utmost respect for people, like Chip Midnight for example, who made their fortunes in a business in game, but outside of that all talk of an economy is just total pap!

Mr Bomzai - I'll give you a real world equivalent of what I mean......

Miss America - Oh dear, oh MY - why sir I have NO money at all I doooo declare...
US Mint - Here you go honey, have a million dollars - ya'll come back now

The only limit on how wealthy you can be in Second Life is how wealthy you are in Real Life as shown recently by the filthy rich 'gentleman' that bought a certain Island in Second life - NO talent in game - NO talent out of game - just shit loads of money - now come back and discuss economy when we're playing a game that gives everyone an equal chance of sucess rather that this pretend economy garbage you people keep spouting.

i dont see whats so great about clubs there boring plus they lag and i wouldnt even go to one if i was getting paid

I think the biggest reason for people feeling like you do is their expectations from other online games don't at all apply here. I think it's a mistake to think of SL as a game. It's far more like a craft fair/game fair/arts festival sort of deal. It was never intended to be an even playing field because it's not a playing field in any traditional sense. If I go to an art fair to enjoy the sights and sounds and whatever entertainment is on offer I don't expect the fair organizers to provide me some kind of artificial way to earn money there. I don't get upset because I can't afford most of the art on display at the fair, and I don't hold it against the artists there selling or the people there buying stuff. SL is far more like that scenario than it is like a game... it's also a hell of a lot more fun than an art fair with way more to see, do, explore, and play with, without ever spending a dime if you don't want to. This isn't TSO. This isn't an RPG. It's not a simulation. It's a social and creative marketplace. People seriously need to stop expecting SL to start suddenly being "a game." I'm not picking on you Sox. I just think you're looking at SL through the wrong lens.

I understand - really I do, but Second Life has VERY limited ways to make money, and makes ZERO account for unskilled labour.

Clubs in the game have become THE social meeting grounds - the 'most popular' list makes that a fact not a rumour, now club owners built that around event support and suddenly its taken away and we're told 'you dont contribute'.

Well excuse me - a $125 land tier and $80 in radio fee's isnt contributing?Putting together one of,if not the,top places in second life where people meet and interact isnt contributing?

Jenna Fairplay at the Edge has started more people off in Second Life than ANY mentor ever has,thats not contributing?Anyone who thinks that all clubs do is play music and provide a dancefloor has NEVER been in one - since we've been open we've had two REAL LIFE weddings,five Second Life Weddings and a couple of people who have moved in together and all those people met in our club,our club has provided the springboard for numerous business by giving new players vendor spaces for free and we dont contribute?

We give people with no social lives a chance to experience the things they cant in real life,the widow with five kids,the girl in the wheelchair,the guy who has panic attacks,the agraphobic and on and on and on.I'm not looking at it through the wrong lens Chip - I'm looking at it through a different one,one that doesnt have $ signs all over the lens.

My concern is people,my concern is people enjoying themselves,my concern is people having fun socialising.Now anyone can harp on in these forums about Second Life NOT being about that - BUT - the 'most popular' list proves you all wrong,day after day after day.

Chip If I my add to this thread......... Your forgetting that many do think this is a game. And you also forgetting that its us shit-on players that make people like you rich. If its not for us shit-on players you would out of business.
Facts are still facts.

Sox, I'm with ya. Really. I think clubs and the social experience they provide are hugely important to a ton of people... so important in fact that the poeple who go and enjoy the clubs every day should be willing to spend $4-$16 a month to buy L$ to compensate the people who work so hard to provide them the experience. The entire idea behind SL is that we buy and sell and provide and use services from each other. LL doesn't belong in that loop. They're just here to put up the scaffolding and keep gas in the generators. Certainly providing a rich social experience to people who might not otherwise have one is worth the cost of a large latte don't you think!? If someone spent just $4 a month at GOM for clubbing money, they could afford a $32 cover charge every single day of that month. If I was a club owner I'd be rather upset that the people who enjoy my hospitality and music every night aren't willing to spend something as insignificant as $1 a week to compensate me. It wouldn't be LL that I'd be angry with.

No, I'm not. I can spend all day thinking a bananna is a school bus (after all they're both yellow). At the end of the day it's still not going to be one. Should I be pissed at the bananna?



Usagi, you're not being shit on. You're expecting SL to be something it's not.

HUn I am not, but you explain the ads thats Sl is showing the users, its showing what??A GAME?! Right.............Well..................

The tools in SL can be used to construct games. That does not make SL a game.

Money balls, endless contests, hired escorts/prostitutes/dancers/security on site all day, a large social network of constantly shifting newbies, and a ton of time spent.

Not because SL is primarily about socialization. SL isn't primarily about anything.




They cancelled event support for two reasons: inflation and the fact that the SL community (and economy) is big enough to support player-run events sponsored by players. If you've noticed, the events listing hasn't lost steam since the new rules have been put in place; surely SOMEONE is footing the bill.

They raised the ratings to stop people from incessently gaming the system; it's not supposed to be a free money maker, it's supposed to be a social constructive criticism tool.



What group name? "%5 percent people who make money"? I can't find that group anywhere, sorry.




Oh noes, people can't suck money off the linden teat anymore for little effort. Woe is you.

I'm over it. Really. I have no respect or sympathy for people crying over their virtual scam being knocked over and stomped on by more creative forces and economic corrections.




But we're the ones that keep you, the apparently creationless majority, happy and in SL. If it weren't for us, you wouldn't be here. But if you weren't here, we'd still be here creating. We were prior to 1.2, we'll still be here after the club phase is gone from SL.



Incorrect. There are RP groups in SL, some of them huge communities (furries, vampires, etc etc). There are several FPS projects in the works, as well as Jessie Sim and Rausch. YOU don't do that, but others do.



You're lumping 100% of the population of SL into a group that only wants to socialize and have a good time. your evidence is based off the amount of people that come to your club. The only people that go to your club are socializers. Ergo, 100% of the SL population must want to socialize.




Fixing money leaks and inflation aren't "problems". They fixed problems. 6 months from now you'll thank LLabs for taking care of their economy.



Good, I don't like people anyway.

LF

And Joe. Q. Millionaire can take his US dollars into Sl with him; what's the difference?



The lindens disagree.




Wealth is defined differently by different people. I find wealth by creating things for people. He found wealth by slinging money all over the place. We're both right.

At the end of the day, though, who is better off -- the man with $L3,403,203 in his account, or the person who just built a valentine's day present for his fiancee/girlfriend/thingie?

Depends on who you are, I guess.

LF

I firmly agree and omg yes Im a club owner again you dont meet the people I meet. Many who I know who spend real money to buy Linden do it so they can buy those nice boots for when they go to a club etc. When a person buys nice things to wear or use they want to show it off and where do they do that at, at clubs. When they want to find someone where do they go, they go to clubs. I remember when I went to the sandbox for the first time to try and build. I was called a newb and shot 3 sims. Those are the players who dont go to clubs.

Majority of the build, scriptors, designers etc make their goods geared towards the preferance of the social players. Give me one vendor name who does not sell stuff to social players. My brother is a Doozer and he agrees that he enjoys when a social player hires him to build their house or club etc. Doozers build so Fraggles can eat its just that simple. Money players are blinded by the $ to see how important clubs are but no matter what I or anyone says wont matter. Majority of the social players dont spend their time reading or responding to forms they are out having fun. Group hug now people

You know - I keep making the mistake of coming into these forums expecting some kind of intelligence - my evidence is based on the fact that I run THE biggest group in Second life - facts are something you,and people like you, find easy to avoid.I'm basing my assumption on the FACT that for half of the week or more I have the No1 spot in the whole game!

So what does that tell you? the top SEVEN groups in Second Life are ALL clubs, EIGHT out of the top ten most popular places are clubs - but you keep living in whatever fantasy floats your boat m8.

oh well. then all the talk about sl being a game is just a lie..ok.............

"Lie" may be a bit strong. I'd say "misconception" at worst. Otherwise - yes.

So why isn't your huge fan base willing to spend $1 a week to support you? One freakin' dollar! Those are the people you're defending while they're hanging you out to dry. It's not LL screwing you over Sox. It's your patrons..

The people who buy $L on GOM also made their money in America (or wherever), and thanks to GOM, they can take it to SL as easily as they can take it to England. This is the difference between having a *real* economy like SL and having a "game" economy like an RPG.

I got bitterly burned like that in my first 30 days when I merely tried to put land from an individual to a group where the tier could be shared with friends. I wound up getting double-tiered and double-billed a whopping amount because it put me way up into a bigger tier jump. The problem had to do evidently with the failure of the system to update the group donations that had put in first, to reflect the capacity to absorb the land.

It was the same piece of land, and it got billed twice. I howled and howled to customer service and got absolutely nowhere. Since then, in making transfers like that or indeed in making any purchase, I find myself taking screenshots of all screen menu options, thinking through everything 100 times, and simply stopping and backing up if the system suddenly generates a "tier-up" message.

I have found that when this happens, it is possible to back out of that menu seeming to force you to tier-up but ONLY if you have a way in the game to back out of what appears to be a tier-up. So that could mean that there isn't enough donation in the group or whatever.

Since having this horrible experience, I've tried to think of in-game remedies. And I think one of the ways might be if you are finding yourself in this forced-tier-up emergency is to have the parcel of land put in a group, even just temporarily with friends who have some tier, or with an alt account (it's cheaper to spend $9.95 then $75). Then you can revise the purchase to be a group purchase, and later shift it around to the individual. This is a very tricky work-around, but I got it to work once.

*Blinks*

I don't have to make up this stuf...there it is!

Or just click the button to make the land tier contrib with the deed.

SL Players need to learn to appreciate Linden Lab!

The "fact" is, dear Soxpants, is that all having the biggest group in SL means is you got 1000+ newbies to join your group. That's it. Everything else is based off assumptions and accusations.



There have been reports surfacing here and there, usually kept under the radar of most, of club owners logging in alts for 5 minutes a day to inflate dwell, coercing/forcing/extorting people to stay on their land all day, bullying people for various reasons, and basically being Shady McShadersons all along the way.

As an industry, I have little respect for the "club" side of SL; it all seems to be built upon smoke and mirrors, jealosy, envy, extortion, and outright blatant lying to various folks in order to be "number one". Let's herd the folks here and KEEP them here, using whatever means we can! Throw pennies at them! Offer virtual sex! Hire escorts! Be their pal! Keep them here however we can! Lag be damned!

This is not to say there aren't any good clubs, but in my limited experience they are few and far between, while most of them have the slimy touch of virtual underground crime syndicates.

Clubs are not the reason SL exists. If you believe so, I think someone might wanna pull you out of *your* fantasy boat, "m8".

LF

Ok, call me silly, and yes, I'm a "new car smelling" newbie butt...(yes I spelled it right!)
How can this be a "women's" issue when you can be whatever you want in SL??? Methinks someone has been taking too many cultural women's movement classes, which makes me want to make a movement. Literally.

I came to SL to expand my imagination. I definitely will be taking in the classes, the museums and the art. I also will be seeing all the sights, including the occasion ho and slut party. Hey, call me equal opportunity here. I was shocked when I found out there were no cover charges for some clubs and that Linden was giving club owners a subsidy. Time to get off the Welfare! Charge a cover (and no one on here yet has given a good explanation about why that wouldn't work if you have something actually worth seeing!)

If you build it, the newbie's will come.

cheers!

I think you just gave me a new nickname for someone.