SL Needs to Learn to Appreciate Its Members

Here, morse, have a cookie

First of all...the club I own doesn't employ strippers or whores. I don't really frequent the clubs that do....

I go to clubs to laugh....socialize...chat....I find that people with diverse minds have excellent senses of humor.

I took 2, 1 hour classes when I came to second life...both were nice...and were over within my first 2 days of playing the game. So they don't really constitute much game content for real players. I took one building class and figured it out from there....I don't think I'd enjoy taking anymore building classes...in fact...yawnnnnnn..i can barely stay awake considering the notion.

I have a Master's degree and spent a lot of time in lectures. If you'd like to spend more time in lectures...I'd advise you to immediately stop playing SL and enroll in your nearest University...much better source.

Like I said...clubs provide excellent socialization content...and that's is why most people log on to the game....maybe not YOU...but many, many, many, many, many people. That's exactly why clubs are so popular and make up the large majority of the events calendar.

I do agree that the clubs need to be more innovative.

I doubt, however, this will accomplish that.

Anyone that knows me and my club knows that I strive to try to provide unique events. My club has yet to have a "sexiest ass contest."

We did however build a giant bed and specially made scripted pillows (thank you LordJason) for a very, very funny PJ party and have some cat racing contests (funny and disturbing). I can provide pictures if you don't believe me.

Part of the money that I get from bonuses I use to try to think up new scripted items to make my club events more exciting.

This will hardly make events better ...or clubs better...rather the opposite i'd image because intelligent, paying customers are getting fed up.

You'll get smaller, cheaper clubs with more lag and less to offer.

Actually, if you apply Natural Selection to it..

The better ones will thrive, and the sucky ones with "less to offer" will die.

It isn't LL that should be appreciating your club. It's your patrons. They're being entertained at your and LL's expense instead of their own. Do you not see anything wrong with that picture?

Well as a a co-owner of a club and as a DJ for not only said club, and not only even just for SL, dwell is not my priority. YES its cool to get a shitload of people at your events....been there, done that, was a lot of fun, but not necessary to keep me going.
I had 2 DJ slots today....I did rock n roll trivia at Gravity and with all the protesting going on I only topped out about 15 people, many of those being FRIENDS just there to support and ya know what? I had a BLAST! Second time on-air was for the club I co-own and I CANCELLED the event yet still went on-air for my station for a grand total of FOUR people while I club-hopped.
I don't build or script, and have no plans too....some of us have other talents even if they seem trivial to others. My SL character has come a LONG way and become more tactful in the 7 months I have been here. Even though I am not the sex-ball addict, or "naked DJ/dancer" that I used to be, I still want the freedom SL has provided in comparison to TSO and There (I have played neither but know plenty of people who did). SL has topped both those games in freedom of expression and creativity.... so what if we wanna hold a naked event, sexiest avie event, best black outfit event??? It is your choice whether to attend or not....even if the events sound similar and repetitive, the group of people and atmosphere and the DJ's are different at each club.
Do I get a kick out of having made somewhat of a name for myself in SL? Of course...who honestly wouldn't? But please don't shut out the "socialites/clubbers". If SL was originally created to be strictly a builder/scriptor game thats one thing, but don't go changing the rules so drastically on us like this. Hell, take away the 250 hosting fee but at least allow us the 500 in prize money. Take an extra 100L off of my weekly stipend to keep event support going. Just please don't sweep the rug out from under us like this!
I;m not worried about my club "surviving"....if nothing else, its a place a small group of us call home in SL, events or not....that was our only desire from day one however I don't know if we'll wanna continue paying for the land. Some of you wil respond with "Cool! One less club!" but please re-read what I said....our club is group owned and oru SL home....nothing more, nothing less. We enjoy only having a couple events a week, we like not competing to be on top of the SL world and having the time and freedom to go out and support other friends and clubs, we LOVE the people we have met who just drop in to hang out at random times, we love being able to play unconeventional music and having others enjoy it as much as we do rather than streaming Hitz Radio like so many others. We are here to bond together and to enjoy the escape from RL.

Yes I know what the actual costs are...I own more land than you. There is a thing called monthly dwell that is paid out in real life dollars too....many strive for this incentive.

This game isn't for socializing period....thats your problem...you want to make SL be what you want for everbody and you can't

The game is for socializing. The game is for making money. The game is for building. The game is for scripting. The game is for hanging out. The game is for retailing. The game is for networking. The game is for arguing and fighting. The game is for cybersexing. The game is for loving and liking. The game is for common projects. The game is for griefing. The game is for cults of all kinds. The game is for opposing cults of all kinds. The game is for forum freeks. The game is for technogeeks. The game is for the religiously-inclined. The game is for rabid atheists, Satanists, and those who believe the universe was created by technically advanced aliens. The game is for middle-aged women who like to go partly naked and tempt 20-something boys. The game is for middle-aged men who just bought the Porsche and would like the body to go with it. The game is for saying "Eeewwee" to all of that! The game is for people to see the scenery. The game is for people to complain about the scenery. The game is for wannabe real estate agents. The game is for people who want to own beachfront property and know they never will. The game is for leftists. The game is for fascists. The game is for people who like to whine. The game is for people who like to whine about people who like to whine. The game is for people with multiple personalities and a thing for alts. The game is for true believers. The game is for true nonbelievers. The game is for those who feel appreciated. The game is for those who don't feel appreciated. The game is for.....

Everydamnbody. Which is why the game is different and sometimes interesting.

Y'all need to quit your whining. Y'all need to keep on whining.

*Applauds for Dallas*

Exactly. Everyone has a different view, everyone has different goals.

And no matter what changes LL made, it is still possible to live out your goals in SL.

Club owners so far got their pay from LL, in the future they need a different business model.. either dedication, or entrance fees or closed member-only clubs with monthly group fees, no idea. The concept of luring people with ridiculous prices will cease to be. You need paying customers. And paying customers want quality, not just dull quantity.

So, dear club owners, welcome to the same world where everyone else is in. The world won't end here. But it will change. Be flexible.

*meow*
Leopard Loveless.

The club market is, and has been for months now, oversaturated.

But, with zero pressure from the economy, even the crappiest four-wall, black particle bomb can be a popular club.

Now that people actually want to spend their money on something worthwhile... well, now all the wqorried club owners are coming out of the woodwork.

It's called capitalism. Adapt or die.

If you're smart, you'll end up making MORE money and being MORE popular than you were prior to this.

No, I won't tell you how.

By the way, don't get used to this either. In 6 months or a year, or maybe even a few weeks, LLabs will announce something else. And something else after that. And so on.

The world changes all the time. This isn't There, this isn't TSO. This is Second Life, which is apparently trying to "take over the world".

Adapt or die.

LF

I totally endorse what Cimone and Amy are saying and urge them not to give up, to ignore the forum bullies, and to stick to their guns.

If Lindens and the feted inner elite could but listen to their cry, they would learn that this game is not only about them. The scorn with which feted elite view people struggling to work the levers of this game -- that they themselves took two years to build -- is really unseemly. I keep scratching my head over this one because I can't understand why people would scorn their *customers*. But I guess it could be summed up by what one tekkie doing a cool thing with his cool new gadget once said to me on my lot, when I asked him if I could pay him to build something for me: "I make so much money in RL that it would be silly for me to take money for doing something." He offered to do something for me for free...but then disappeared, and since the game was down for a couple of days, I didn't find him again and moved on to look for other builders willing to take even a modest amount of Lindens and make something.

I, too, struggle with a club for about two and a half months. I tried to make it different. I had friends who helped enormously making an awesome build or contributing their works to various exhibits and contests. We had visitors who took part in interesting architecture contests. We tried events that were different than the usual sexay schoolgirl contest but we still felt compelled to get dance machines (which often broke and sometimes left the customers unable to stop dancing), various props like lights, and of course pay contest money. I personally shelled out thousands and thousands of dollars in contest money and during this time, saw only about 3 of my applications for Lindens be fulfilled -- they took so long that only repeated reminders brought me some, but not all, of the promised $750. It was almost not worth the trouble. And of course there were texture upload fees and the cost of time -- doing picky work, IMing ppl, rating them, putting them in your club group, greeting them, helping them find their way through exhibits or contests. Work! It was fun but there was also simply no payoff -- dwell hardly accumulated, and even with 2000 dwell points you didn't see yourself especially high on the list or with much of a bonus in Lindens.

Lordfly's social Darwinism about clubs, that it's good if they live in a harsh atmosphere and adapt or die, maybe will work for the more entertainment-based club where the fabulously wealthy can keep entertaining the masses as a kind of loss-leader to advertise their business. But to be so harsh about other kinds of clubs or organizations having regular meetings seems unnecessary. Once again, I think the Lindens might have done better to put more bang in the dwell dollar, and make it so that dwelling at events paid the organizers.

I totally agree with you Prokofy.
And i am one of the so called creatives that rarely go to clubs (mostly because of lack of time).
Maybe before or later the technosnob elite that pass thousand hours scripting and creating content will understand that a big part of the linden support to events ends mopre or less in THEIR pockets. It goes to club employees, and what do you think they do with it? Bury it in the backyard? They use it to buy content. Without the "club crowd", content creators like me wouldnt be able to sell, so maybe they should begin respecting their customers, before considering themselves an elected elite.

I can't wait to see the day when everyone knows how to do everything, script, build, master photoshop so that they can make everything themselves. I'm tired of selling my stuff that I make. It's so annoying.

As long as your don't mind your choices being stripping or ogled or whoring yourself out, as long as your "content" is sex balls or porn on the walls, yeah, I guess you're right.

Personally, I think this is great. Maybe we are going to see more involvement from players changing the economy from within and actually working rather than relying on the weekly bonus payments. If you think your club is that great, charge an admission fee.

Alby and Lance are my new heros.

It's not about the money.. it's about having fun with friends..Come to Transylvania.. we always have something going on.

You mean there wouldn't be any more "Cum fuck our dirty whore slut fuckfest cumshot rimshot buckshot escort service club!" or "Oo! Come dance and get free money!" events.

Which is a good thing.

I think it's a good thing LL is reducing free money... possibly will help the USD-L$ market
If you really provide content you can easily ask L$ for it and pay your events and other costs with that. I do the same. I pay a whole island with it.

If it's so measly, you probably won't miss it then, right?

Well said

And in return, more Residents might consider it sage to appreciate the Linden family: for without them, where is Second Life?

We could have apathetic stagnation sans change, but where would that leave all of us?

The world is too big a place to make certain demands without giving something back in return. As the water in a pond flows around when stirred, so are we as humans, free to express ourselves yet connected to one another. We touch, we feel, we... live.

you know, it's funny.

I see, "DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH IT TAKES TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN A CLUB?!"


As a -joke-, we built Club Giant Eltee Head. We built it in 30 minutes. Adding lights and effects might have taken another hour.

Arito got on to DJ, and the sim was packed. Every night, the sim was packed. We didn't advertise. We didn't swap ratings. We didn't get a sponsorship.

And night after night, we had situations where the sim was full and nobody could get in.

It just doesn't hold water.

To say there would be no events without clubs is ludicrous, too. Before clubs became a mainstay, there were -LOTS- of varied and interesting events. And they were NOT all done purely for sponsorship. Hell, back then, cashing out on GOM wasn't even heard of. And it was a lot of fun, still.

On the other hand, these changes will NOT cripple clubs. It'll only get rid of some of the lesser ones. Yes, people are going to have to find a new way to make money, beyond it being given to them by LL.

But here's a novel idea: If your club really was that awesome, you could make money the way people do in RL who run clubs. Charge a cover charge. Charge admission.

The only clubs that'll freak out at this are ones who know they're EXACTLY like every other one out there. Charge a cover charge and put half of the proceeds into a user contest at the end of the night.

There are ways to do this. Clubs will NOT "die" in SL. Just now, not EVERYONE will be a club owner.

heheh CGLTH ruled, michi!

Cim, I feel your pain, but if the club business is a money-losing business, then get out (unless you are in it for other reasons). Lots of people try new ventures and not all of them work, but kudos for trying! (I am being sincere there) Some clubs will still exist...the market will just adapt. There was just no reason for clubs to receive subsidies any more -- they should try to stand on their own two feet.

People will create new ways to have fun and work with the economic structure.

Educational events still get stipends because LL wants to create more creators in world, or at least help people decide if they want to be creators. (and by creators, i don't necessarily mean "sellers". Also because their documentation remains pretty bad.

As has been said many times over the past day, you can have fun in SL without spending tons of money. If you *can't* have fun without spending that money, then you need to upgrade to a monthly account, or go spend $4.00 on GOM and buy a few lindens.

Yes, it's a game, but it's THIS game.

I decalre Ci-whatever thouroughly and ultimately trashed

If second life is not going to be a community of serious-minded builders hunkered over their virtual desks and hording their textures and scripts, that is if it is going to remain a diverse community, then the many diverse skills that go into the community must be appreciated. This includes the building of community as much as the building of scripted objects. I am an events builder with an MFA in arts administration who attempts, very earnestly, to provide an evening of entertainment, risk, and growth to my event participants. It takes more than an outfit to win. It takes being attentive, fast on one's feet, and able to sculpt a scene in a manner akin to theatrical improvisation.

Now my only reliable means of supporting myself (while providing Huge value for the meagre bucks I have gotten from this) has been eliminated. Well other than selling myself for money. Need a ho anyone? Maybe that is what the lindens were about from the start: the creation of a ho culture. As the male-vision-limited corporate government types it is mimicking, SL administration has failed to analyze policy from a gender lens. This will hurt women disproportionately and I expect to see fewer playing or sticking with the game when they have to compete with people who are programmers for a living to make what dollars they can. Not to say that there aren't women programmers, but women and men both often take career paths that are influenced by traditional gender roles and gender-specific skills that, accordingly, have been taught to them since infancy. Perhaps SL will go the way of so many other games and be a collection of boys and boys who play girls before too long. Hope you fellas enjoy the smell of women while you get it! Maybe invest in some cologne and shower gloves (so that you only drop the soap when you intend to).