Ginko Financial

I thought we did give out a decent way to evalute the risk. Our track record of near perfect customer satisfaction, our staff that will have any problem with your account fixed within minutes, or a few hours at most depending on the time of day, and our 'over one year without stealing all your money and running away' history are a few factors to base that on. Beyond that, you can concider it a gamble like anything else. We will answer any of your questions that don't risk giving out information that would allow you to create a system to mimic our own, and I, as well as many others Ginko employees are on most of the day to answer any other questions you may have. We just ask that you don't try to give Ginko a bad name because you are displeased in the way we run our buisness.

So you don't know?

Doesn't really matter here what /you/ think is justified. It matters what the TOS says is justified. Personal RL info like that is certainly against the TOS.

To be fair, people were trying to compare Ginko to a real bank first. Heck, it's what generated Clintons comment. Ginko is a bank in that it holds and investes your money, and generates you interest. Ginko is a real bank, but it is NOT a real life bank, just as your plot in Dreamland is a real plot, but not a real life plot.

A) I don't "invest" with people whose real names I don't know, and any scheme that pays high interest early on and LESS as MORE investors come in is a pyramid scheme. I try to avoid those. Real investments tend to pay more interest as more money is invested.

B) I get to post just like every one else

C) My post had to do with what was POSTED and not with your "business"

You can't HOLD and INVEST. That is why real banks are insured. They don't hold, they invest. And they tell what investments they are making. Ginko is at best an investment fund, it ain't a bank.

No - that's a way to evaluate your customer service, not risk. The risk of a portfolio can only be judged by, well this is kind of obvious, but by evaluating the risk of its assets.

I'm in no way trying to ruin the name of Ginko. I looked at its info a while back and decided not to invest and honestly never thought about it again. What annoyed me in this thread and prompted me to post is this attitude that Ginko somehow owes no one any sort of explanation of what they do with other peoples' money. If that's how you all feel then fine but don't expect me to sit silently while you claim that is somehow your right.

Oh, then I guess we were both confused. I was merely stating if you have problems with Ginko, please take it to IM and not to give a honest company a bad rep. Well, you may not think its honest, but I mean in a relavent term as in 'we haven't stolen any money, or ran away from our responsibilities'. I am by no means trying to get rid of your posting rights, I'm just asking that you reframe from trying to make us look negative. Of course, this is just me asking, and you can very well go on and countinue to do so.

But the thing is, we don't owe any sort of explantion on what we do with other peoples money. Like you said, we aren't a real life bank. People who invest in us do so at their own risk. Besides, sharing our investment stratigies would be risking our buinesses future, as anyone would then be able to mimic our actions. Not sharing how we invest the money is our right as a buisness in secondlife.

I am not invested in Ginko, and have no strong opinion one way or another, but I am curious. Would you at least be willing to disclose what you aren't investing in - by this, I mean a statement that the investor money is not being invested in or used to support illegal activities (terrorism, drug trafficking, child/sex slavery, etc.)? Believe me, I am not trying to add on any to the hatchet job that Anshe is trying to do to you guys - I just think some positive disclosure would go a long way toward deflecting some criticism and concern, without having to reveal your investment strategies, which of course are private.

Object all you like - that is your prerogative. Do you feel better now?

I can set up a vendor in-game that promises you Venus on the Half Shell and takes your money and gives you nothing in return. How would you evaluate that risk? There are how many casinos in SL? Their slot machines may even post their putative odds, even still do you really know the risk? Anshechung.com can let you have the use of some land in exchange for an upfront charge, do you know that the vLand will be there tomorrow? Nope, not really. Even with RL regulation by the SEC, does fraud and misrepresentation happen? All the time. There is a non-zero probability you will not be alive by tomorrow morning (this is an example not a threat) what is the risk there?

Actually, as I said earlier in this thread, when I first heard of Ginko, I thought it sounded too good to be true. I'm now an investor and have no firm expectation that I'll ever see my L$ back. Then again, those L$ could have disappeared tomorrow through LL whim or error and I have no recourse there either. What is the risk of that happening? I don't know as LL is privately held and no outsider has any idea what their fiscal standing is. It certainly is not unprecedented that small firms just close shop one day.

Personally, I tend toward the risk averse end of the fiscal spectrum in RL. However, L$ may not be worth the paper they aren't printed on tomorrow for any number of reasons which is why I had little compunction depositing some of that play money in Ginko. If it does yield L$ gains for me, that's more L$ to give to SL charity initiatives or to support the arts or organizations like The Shelter or VERTU. If it doesn't realize gains for me, I may have lost what LL says wasn't ever really "mine" to begin with. So it goes. I will admit to taking some pleasure in putting L$ into an organization that makes the original poster afraid but I don't know that you can put a fungible valuation on that.

Of course

For the most part, what we invest in is legal for the country we do buisness in, as orphans aren't considered people there.

Truthfully, this is a Nick question, and we would have to wait for his reply. He can answer far better then I could.

How on earth did you get the notion that I was a Ginko customer? I'm just wondering why Ginko won't say how the money is invested. Even in vague general terms. Instead you attack the people asking. With such an inconceivably amazing return on your investments I'd think you could at least tell us if you're investing in hog belly futures or war bonds or something. There is only one "investment opportunity" that pays out high dividends immediately and then the dividends predictably decline over time as more investors come in. That would be a pyramid scheme aka a ponzi scheme. The reason the dividends decline is there is no real investment and the money from new suckers is divided between every one else. So it's a natural question to ask, if Ginko isn't a ponzi scheme, what is it? And if you don't want to answer, fine. But answers like "great customer satisfaction" and "been around for a year" are silly. A pyramid scheme can last years in Real Life, and nobody loses until it all collapses.

With all of this, I am not saying that Ginko is a ponzi scheme. I don't know. But Ginko isn't saying what it is, just attacking those who ask.

This was a great opportunity for Ginko to gain more business. You might have gained more too, from the Anshe-Chung-Is-Satan crowd. But you don't seem to have wooed over the great unwashed middle.

Um, I am trying not to ponder what 'as orphans aren't considered people there" means.

Well sadly I'm one of those people who see Second Life as a game, not as an incredible platform for content creation or the utopia it could be if only... So you can feel free to claim any imaginary right you wish because there are no real rights here. I mean I can claim to be the sovereign king of my plot of land and who's going to say I'm not.

You know what - if people are stupid enough to give you their money and not expect a word of explanation then good for you. Cause you hit the nail on the head - you're not a real bank. You're not a real anything. Do what you want cause there are no rules. I'm sure you're actions you wish no one to mimic are incredible drivers of wealth creation - so much so that you've decided to use them in this fabulous fake world of ours rather than in the real world where the stakes would be much more real and much higher (not to mention all that onerous real life regulation). I mean it looks pretty easy to mimic your actions to me - collect deposits, pay a high and unsustainable rate on them to get more deposits and decrease that rate over time. Oops - I hope I didn't give anything away.

Just to clarify to those without a sense of humour, Tren is joking. Although this is a question for Nick to answer in detail, I can assure you in brief that none of the investor money goes to evil organizations, such as child porn/sex slavery rings, drug runners, terrorist groups, gun-smugglers, or the republican party.

CCC

I at not point suggested that you were a Ginko customer, nor did I ever attack anyone asking question. I asked that if you had questions, that would you please send them in IM or on our forums, and not try to turn each post into "its a scam because they didn't answer this". I used answers like "great customer satisfaction" and "been around for a year" for questions that asked about risk. Like I said, there is no guarentee, and that using our past track record would be a better indication of our buisness then someone saying "its a scam!".

If you felt like I attacked you, then I really am sorry. That was no my intention. My goal was to try to convince people to take their messages into IM, as most of these accusations could hurt Ginko and its investors.

And please, don't turn your opinions into 'the opinions of everyone'. It's a little pet peeve of mine. I'm sorry that you felt our answers were not to your satisfaction, and as I said to anyone who felt they were at risk, don't invest. I don't say this out of spite, I say this because having worried customers is not something we want.

Thank you for the more straightforward answer - while this entire thread is ridiculous thanks to Anshe, I didn't quite know how to take that answer as I don't know Tren at all. Knowing no money goes to the Republican Party has sealed the deal for me

Don't you feel silly saying that us not giving out information is a 'imaginary right', but saying eariler that the investors have a right to know what we are investing in?

I do appericate your attempt at utter dickery though. Most people wouldn't try so hard.

Is Berkshire Hattaway a pyramid scheme?

"It's not a pyramid - it's a rhombus."

-Troy McClure

Oh, by the way, welcome to the second life forums. I'm glad I was able to meet you.

Aww how sweet, Anshe left me an offline message letting me know how much fun it was seeing me make "one jerk" of myself for defending Ginko.

Wow, are you investing Ginko money with Berkshire Hattaway? Or are you comparing Ginko to Berkshire Hattaway? Are you saying Berkshire Hattaway paid 70% and more in interest the first year and then the interest declined?

Sigh, ok I'm getting sooooo bored of this, but I'm just amazed that these "investors" can't see this. This will be my last post on this topic, because really, if you fall for this at this point, you've been warned...

6. This money Nicholas used for "investments"
7. His biggest investments are in "websites"

The precise mechanism for this incredible return can be attributed to anything that sounds good but is not specific...

10. Ginko pays 0.19% interest per day or 1.2% per week, which would equal 85% yearly rate

As the interest is compounded daily it's a far higher return: A nearly 100-percent return during the first year.

An advertisement is placed promising extraordinary returns on an investment – for example 20% for a 30 day contract

No, you do not have any information, and probably never will have. That is one of the reasons I don't use a bank, they require too much information and give people no flexibility..

"My secret is 'How do I cash the coupons?' That is what I do not tell."

Supporters are investors who are profiting and are satisfied with the level of service provided by Ginko to date.

One reason that the scheme works so well is that early investors – those who actually got paid the large returns – quite commonly keep their money in the scheme (it does, after all, pay out much better than any alternative investment).


Did no one else notice that the overwhelming majority of posts in this thread questioning anshe's motives and supporting gingo are from a handful of new users with 20 or below post counts, who have registered between october and noverber of 2005?

Oh, to the several people who said it must not be a ponzi scheme because it has been around for a whole year, the following quote comes from the owner of Ginko...

"A ponzi scheme at 10% a year can last, even without new investments, 11 years fairly easy (as you can invest the money at a low safe return), at which point people are very willing to give you more money without any new disclosure."

With that, I leave you to your money flushing.