If AgePlay Is Being Restricted, So Should Gambling...

I'd be VERY happy to accept L$ for packs of gum. I'll sell packs of BubbleYum gum to anyone in real life. All you have to do is send 300L$ per pack you want along with an IM with your address. If you live in Northern VA or DC, you can even pick them up at my house.

Try taking USD$ to a store in Germany and see if they accept it. The store owner will laugh at you. So I guess that means the USD$ has no value now?

I never got the whole "Im not talking to you HMMMMPh" tactic in forum discussions.

Pan made some good points. But also made some rather juvinile comments witht the De Nile stuff. Also its impossible to know whther he actually contacted the US justice department and they reffered to SL specifically.

The thing is SL gambling may or may not be legal now - But Im pretty as they crack down on gambling sites out there on the internet, It will eventually become a target.

Originally Posted by Daz Karas
>Ancient Greek society did not consider sexuality as a personality trait and did not openly >discriminate for or against people based on their sexual preferences, like most Western

"Openly"? Leaves defacto discrimination intact. Consider the greatest of the lot - Alexander of Macedon - married and had a child, or at least his wife did. There would not be much open discrimination against gays and lesbians in big western cities, but you can bet your bottom dollar (Linden, yankee or Commonwealth) that it happens unofficially.

>cultures are doing now after the heavy influence of mainly religious authorities of the >Middle Ages who considered all sexuality a mental disorder that only sinful people were >afflicted >with.

WTF, so to speak. Seriously, the general purpose of medieval teaching on sex was that it should be a minor aspect of a person's relationship with others and with god, compared with the spiritual. "Unhealthy obsession" would be more accurate than "mental disorder".

>The sexual behavior of the Ancient Greeks can be studied and analyzed from an >anthropological or sociological point of view but in order to do that one has to abandon >familiar preconceived ideas about "gays" or "lesbians" or "bisexuals" who are >meaningless labels in an academic or any serious examination of human behavior.

The sexual behavior of Modern Americans is only imperfectly understood by anyone else, including those speaking the same language from the same batch of historical cultures and with a cable television subscription. So I'd suggest caution looking at a people separated from us all by a vast gulf of years, culture and language. We have no idea of how the vast bulk of ancient Greeks viewed sexuality; a wafer thin veneer on top of society ever wrote anything, and the great unwashed were not a topic for serious discourse. There's a tendency to look back at a thousand years of Graeco-Roman culture as some sort of golden age of liberty and self-expression. It is worth asking /whose/ liberty and self-expression.

Actually, Pan left a link to the quote from the US Justice Dept stating that gambling in SL is illegal. Scroll back a few pages to find it.

I actually respect Pan for saying that she was done. After a while she was answer the same questions and comments over and over again. Not to mention it is obvious that LL doesn't want us to use the forums as a discussion forum.

Oh well, enjoy your weekend.

yes a news story and a 1 line quote.

Hardly an official Justice department response. Hardly even remote proof he contacted them.

I just sent an email to them to verify. If you still want to know and need proof, you should do the same. I'll let you know if/when I hear back from them.

I think that quote is pretty solid evidence that the US Justice Dept knows and deems SL gambling to be illegal.

Whatever, I don't gamble anyway so I could care less. I'd actually like it to be banned. It may get rid of some of these annoying lag monster casinos which keep killing sim performance.

This tendacy exists reguarding many cultures. It dimisses their actual accomplishments to paint unrealistic pictures of human societies. It is something you are taught to watch out for when studying History in a University setting. Of course its a lesson often not learned. Many serious published historians are guilty of it. Thus you will read many glorified accounts.

The same thing is done reguarding individuals. Many famous historical americans were practically super heroes if we believe some of the works done covering them.

Id rather they were banned becuase of dubious legality than becuase they cuase lag. I think Lag could be largely reduced by geting rid of the traffic metric.

It would be easily possible to design a low lag casino.

If its not illegal now - Im sure it will be. Otherwise what stops Internet gambling sites from adopting a virtual currency as well? Just invert their site to be a 2d virtual world. Since the payout money comes from outside the US, it should be easy enough to fake.

I agree with your above point/s 100%.

My (insert deity of choice or expletive), you still don't get it. The originator of this line of reasoning stated that L$ only have value as and when expressed by players within the game. Of course you would accept L$ in RL because you play the game and can use them, but only within the game unless you further trade them with other players who also attach a value to them. But you try going into your local McDonalds and try to use them and they will laugh at you.

Also, having lived in Germany for 3 years can I assure you that in Southern Germany USD are readily accepted and at a highly profitable exchange rate for store owners in and around American Army and AirForce bases. So in fact the USD has a daily market value in a shop in Germany. And even if I were in Northern Germany or elsewhere in the world any shopkeeper would be more than eager to tell me where I could convert my dollars. Anybody know any bank or financial facility in RL where I can convert L$? No? Hmmm I wonder why that is then? So yah boo sucks to you buddy!

BTW Pan never answered/rebutted any one of my comments. Can I assume then he/she didn't hold their own against me and was in turn schooled?

Furthermore, we were not making fun of Pan or his/her religion. We merely pointed out the flawed argument, incorrect parallels, inconsistencies of argument and the less than accurate portrayal of their asserted facts.

Dear Alienware/Pan

I was just reading through Alienware's posts and I was suddenly struck by the similarity of prose and structure of some of their posts to Pan's. So I thought I would look up their profiles. Well what do you think I found? Both share the same birthday, Nov 30th. Coincidence? Maybe?


So I thought I would back track over some of their posts. Remember Pan's humourous "you are in DeNile" joke earlier in this thread? Well here's an Alienware post from 16th Oct 06;

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=143298&page=5&pp=15

"Do you think LL is going to risk having their means of transfer shut down AND face possible criminal charges? NOT! I give it less than three months before LL adds the new TOS violation line on gambling in world, but would expect it anyday now."


I never said that NOW today our means of transfer are cut off, I said that SOON (anyday now but 3 months at most) they will be cut off if LL doesn't do anything AND LL could face criminal prosecution. LL would never risk this, so bye bye casinos.

Sheesh people are blind and in massive denial here. No one ever saw this coming? LOL. Sad...

http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=143298&page=6&pp=15

"I give it a few months, probably any day now, before LL adds the new TOS violation of no gambling in world to their TOS. If you don't believe it: there is a great river in Egypt called DENIAL..."

Well 5 months on and and it seems Alienware's dire predictions are yet to materialise and his humorous puns are yet to improve! And is this the same Alienware who was whingeing in one forum that he couldn't sell his plot because of a nearby casino? And could that be the genesis of their anti-casino theme?

As at 01:52am SLT Alienware's in-world profile showed that the only item he had under his featured picks was..."BLACKJACK" @ Dootorak 11,250,105 "A low lag casino". Well it certainly is because there's nothing there now. But it does raise questions about this poster's faculty for being honest.


And to conclude here are two interesting quotes from our avowed strict moralist and christian doctrinaire Pan Fan;

/327/ce/170175/1.html#post1430697/327/ce/170175/1.html#post1430697

"Ageplay is freaking SICK! But at the same time I think anyone wshould be able to do anything they want in a virtual world with any other person who in real life is of leagal age. Good luck!"


/327/e4/167205/1.html#post1417936/327/e4/167205/1.html#post1417936

"Yea, sorry. I didn't mean to say that you are stupid, hehe. I have also gambled a bit at Vegas, etc."

Well Pan Fan unless you've had a recent Damascean conversion can you now please allow us "legal age adults" to carry on doing what we want; namely gambling in this instance.


Oh and by the way, good luck at the tables when you next roll into Vegas!


NOW CAN WE PLEASE END THIS THREAD AS IT IS EVIDENTLY A HOAX!

I feel as Ace does. If you dont like something in SL, simply stay away from it (gambling, or ageplay). I to enjoy SL because it is free from the few trying to make policy for the masses(for now, let Warren Buffet buy Sl, and see what happens). What makes it even easier to mind your own business, is that everyone here is of age ( so if your 55 and your trying to bang an 18 year old, be my guest), so what kind of issues can there be. With all of the financial opportunities that i see LL's missing out on, they would be foolish to eliminate a revenue generating vehicle that is already in place (gambling). As for you religious fanatics who feel obligated to voice what offends. Who cares what you think, what you eat doesnt make me shit. So be concerned with staying away from what you dont like about SL, and try not to force your views and opinions on the rest of us.

Jamil

Final closing comments, pending of course.

I think I might have to go out and buy a hatchling dragon avatar from Daryth and fiddle around a bit with prims and go on a gigilo spree.

Why?

To see if I get caught for age play.

Who's to say that I'm not a fully grown critter at 17 and three quarters of an inch?

How about I get a compy avatar and go on a date with a T-Rex? Compys look like baby rexes.

And a final point in line with the topic:

L$ have no actual value. What do you trade them for? Goods and services.
What kinds of goods?
Goods that if I put a little bit of effort into it I could duplicate exactly.

You can't do that in the real world, you have to spend money to make money, not so in SL. In SL there is no "cost" to create a product save one's time, and once created can be sold an infinitesimal number of times at no additional cost.

So, in essence, all we can do with our L$ is buy services (which includes the skill of product creation). Services which can only be had though LL servers and have no value outside of them. If LL closed their doors, skipped down, and reopened in China--our accounts intact except for our L$--they would be under no obligation to reimburse us, where as if the US gov't did the same thing, starting up "somewhere new" using the same currency, they would HAVE to accept the currency we still carried.
In SL we don't even carry our own money. LL keeps track of what we "own" and if they decide that we no longer own it, then we no longer own it (I'm not talking IP here, I'm talking actual data).

If gambling with anything of value is wrong, then gambling with rocks is wrong: even those have value to someone.

At which point the argument becomes useless.

We gamble for entertainment, and THAT is a service worth paying for.

Edit because it showed up while I was typing:


Damn strait. I hereby ban all people who force their religion on others because it is against my religious beliefs.

Well said Draco18s and a fitting conclusion (fingers crossed) unless of course Pan/Alienware want to drag their hypocritical selves/self back and dig a deeper hole for themselves/self?

Before taking up residence in SL I lived in UK. While internet gambling is perfectly legal in UK, carrying a gun, or even a realistic replica gun, is a serious criminal offence. So I think guns in SL should be restricted to designated 'warplay' and 'crimeplay' areas.

the USD is no longer backed by silver or gold, so we mindlessly walk the planet exchanging this currency as if it has "real" value (which technically the USD does not). What value it has is perceived. If a merchant decides to take anything you call legal tender then it creates this said value( even if your money has mickey mouse on it). The USD is back by nothing, it is just a good idea which our government wants to keep us believing in, without them being forced to properly back our USD with something substantial (silver or gold).


Jamil

Just noticed some things. They might suggest $L can be redeemed, on the face of it. What do people think?

https://secure-web5.secondlife.com/currency/sell.php

and through "transaction fees"; on the new page near the bottom, in "Process for Requesting US$ Transfer" go "click here".
The final page of interest is that one:
https://secure-web5.secondlife.com/account/process-credit.php

I could be wrong but it seems to say $L can be retrieved as $US.

Conifer that argument does work entirely and weapons arnt supposed to be used outside those area's except if its for RP purposes anyways. Which is why you get banned for shooting at people in non combat area's.... Also i see Im getting through to some people which is good. Religious agendas have no place inside second life period. My main concern is if this law is really considering anything of value being gambled illegal were are they going to draw the line? Also by definition SL casinos arnt really casinos if you look at them. Its like playing black jack on your computer is that considered an illegal act as well if you bet your friend you win the hand?

See the issue at hand they are using the broad spectrum of the law to encompass anything remotely like gambling and with that same brush we could all be prosecuted for making silly bets with our friends. L while in world have no value except as someone else put it for goods and services. I cant go to the corner store and trade them L for gum as its not a recognized currency and likely never will be. L also has no set monetary value. 250L could be worth 1 dollar today and 50 cents tomorrow because its up to the users to decide what they put the value to.

I've made the point a few times now which yay for some people getting it. And i whole heartidly agree religious arguments have no place here and never will. I'd think someone that comes to SL would really have an open mind about these things but we end up having people come in with the same close mindedness that makes FL so aggrivating at times.

Lauro it can be but while its in World it has no value. It can be sold to other residents but LL themselves are not buying the L and giving you the money and its on you to sell it. As i said in an earlier post it raises the question if we never sell our L to someone else how can they under legal means prosecute us? Also you miss the point of that page. When you sell L they credit your account and then you can choose if they send you that or keep your account credited. Its still your money regardless.

"Net proceeds from your sales of Linden Dollars remain as credit on your Second Life account, and this credit is automatically applied to your account fees as described here. If you do not wish to apply your Linden Dollar sales proceeds to your fees, you may process this portion of your account credit to a payment to you. Note that you may only process credit due to net proceeds from sales of Linden Dollars. Purchases of account credits and credits due to gift codes or other promotional account credits are nonrefundable, and may not be processed as a payment to you."

Its still the money you sold but LL holds it unless you wish to have it credited to you for use outside SL. In which case paypal is the most logical move as opposed to a check (with paypal you can push it back in the bank anyways and it saves traveling hassles) There is obviously a credit processing fee but aside from that they still arnt setting the value of it.

Lindens seem to have more value than most people would like to think. On one hand LL's say's that L$ have no value, however they are happy to accept it when it comes time to pay an account balance. If it has no value why would anyone risk trading it for any reason?Even third world countries have exchange rates, and that is what i liken the lindens and SL to. I remeber when a sent a friend $1,000USD while he was in Jamaica, when he received it, he had $33,000 Jamaican dollars. Now outside of Jamaica, this currency is worthless (wallpaper), however to somone in Jamaica my friend has a pretty penny in his pocket. And if you want this money to have value when you leave Jamaica, then you must exchange the "J" to the USD or some other form of currency. In fact, anyone outside Jamaica would probably state that the "J" has no value to anyone outside of Jamaica, and they would be correct. Sounds like Linden dollars. Right now we as citizens of SL are out performing some third world countries financially. The value of money is an idea in most countries, and L$ are no different. Like someone said earlier, if you think Linden dollars dont have value, please send all of your lindens to me. Maybe i can trade these fake Lindens in for some fake USD.


Jamil

2 business partners and I who were going to buy an island and build a casino.


The parts that were quoted in this thread about gambling.


Of course the business owner has a duty to follow the law. The software and hosting provider also has to. It's the same for any hosting company who knowingly allows illegal content on their servers.


The same thing as the others, they just didn't actually laugh when we met with them about gambling in SL possibly being legal.

Find one other than the Linden and prove me wrong.

Pointless as what? We were looking into it from a business standpoint like any other business venture, including RL casinos. Call me crazy but seeking legal advice about the legality of online gambling is a good way to find out that it's illegal.

It's getting really amusing to me that you're arguing with lawyers and think that you're right.


I know exactly how it works. I used to be a day trader.


I read it all. I didn't respond to all of it because it's wrong.


Yes, and sooner or later, they will.