If AgePlay Is Being Restricted, So Should Gambling...

Well, an easy and responsible solution would be to ban gambling all together. Add a line to the TOS that gambling in any form is a violation and thus bannable, and you'll see gambling in SL vanish quicker than a keg at a Friday night frat party...

As an Athiest I find the use of religion as a reason to ban peoples interests offensive.
Leave the Gods out of this mortal dispute. Stop using them as an excuse and stand on your own 2 feet. Please lock this religiously offensive thread as it offends my disbelief in devine entities.

Ok, first let me start by saying something,

'Good Morning.'

Now that I've go that over with. The serious bit. Now my questions may be abit obvious or off topic, but if gambling on SL is illegal for the U.S. Why?

But for what ever reason, why ban it in SL. When last I looked, the Sl grid was not the 52nd state of America.

For that matter, define 'gambling'. A U.S. citizen goes out for lunch to McDonald's, he/she orders a large meal. It's possible that the food could not be cooked completely & they could get foodpoisoning - thus gambling, thier immediate health. Now ok, it's a bit of a stretch, by you see my point.

And ok, if some American's campaign to get it banned on SL, what about other countries where is it not illegal?.

How about giving some americans a bit of respect & believe that they will respect their local laws - or are all american's lawbreakers...?

Now, I have no desire to offend anyone, & if I have done so, I'm sorry. I just find it frustrating when a small minority of people try to launch a crusade on something, that doesn't always concern them.

Hey hun,

I'll try to go through each question in order.

Internet gambling is illegal in the USA because that is what the law says. Just like murder or rape. It is illegal because it in on the books as being illegal. The process of why it became illegal is irrelevant here.

No, SL is not a state in the USA, but it is located in two states (Texas and California), which are both located inside the USA. My main point of my original post was that if ageplay is being restricted in SL because it is now illegal in some countries in the world, then obviously now that the new anti-online-gambling bill has been passed by the senate and signed by the president, so should gambling, as not only is it illegal in many countries in the world, it is now HIGHLY illegal inside the USA, where a large portion of the SL avatars reside in RL, AND it is where Linden Labs and its servers are physically located.

Gambling, by definition is "wagering money or something of value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods" Wikipedia

The fact that gambling may not be illegal in SOME countries is moot. Gambling IS illegal in many countries including the USA where Linden Labs and their servers are based. The fact that LL is limiting/restricting ageplay in SL due to foreign laws is evidence that something being illegal in even one country is grounds for restriction, not to mention, once again, that Linden Labs is based and their physical servers are located inside the USA where gambling on the internet is highly illegal. And again, a high percentage of their client base is located in countries where gambling is illegal, including the USA.

You didn’t offend me.

And you are a hypocrite and a liar (see my previous post). You preach/claim something else than what you do.

And how are they going to prosecute me?

Because testing fate/chance with money is certainly more evil than lying. Hypocrite.

Can you please tell me what it is you think I am "lying" about? Looking at how few posts you've made over your years here in SL and how active you are in this thread, it seems this issue has really pushed some of your buttons. Gambler? I've reported your personal attacks, btw...

http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=1433010&postcount=53

Of course now my quote looks inaccurate because you managed to edit your post just before I hit submit.

Yes, I really hate people who hold us all to a higher standard and can't do it themselves (being a hypocrite).
No, I never owned a casino, I don't gamble either, although I'd still like the prosecution question answered (on a hypothetical plane saying I gamble).

This wasn't a personal attack, this was merely stating a fact. You were lying, and you were being a hypocrite.

What of any of that is a lie? Gambling is against my religion, the US Justice Dept has stated publicly that gambling in SL is illegal (I even posted a link), and there are many countries in which gambling is illegal.

You're joking, right?

To answer your question about how they would prosecute you while you are not in the US, they wouldn't. Just as no American would get prosecuted in the USA by role playing ageplay, but that still has not stopped Linden Labs from restricting ageplay in SL. LL has restricted ageplay in SL because it is now illegal in some foreign countries, thus gambling should be restricted as well as it is illegal in many countries in the world, including the country in which LL and its physical servers are located, the USA. Have you not read any of the thread?

Sorry, I can't seem to find more than four on google, that isn't 'many'.

I do however find many others (like the USA) where it is regulated though.

Whoever said we are going around in Circle with the L has no value argument is mistaken. LL do not change your money into USD its a bunch of rubbish to believe they do. The person that buys your L is the one that puts value to the L until you take it out of SL it has no monetary value other then game money. Pan regardless of things the u.s justice department made up these laws cuz they couldnt tax online gambling under set laws Making online gaming of that sort taxable would of been the better solution but they are afraid people are going to launder money which is rediculous under many premises. Just because someone might do something illegal you make a law against doing something. I can still own a gun in r/l even though someone can go kill somebody with it.

The legal premises are a bit rediculous in actuality and the fact that they try to shut down places like that is a bit off. I find people that go off and complain when something exists and your argument as to religion makes this entire thread look a bit off in that light. It'd have more merit in my mind to complain if you hadnt brought that into it but you did. Running off and complaining however as a responsible adult proves a lack of maturity no matter who does it. Its the I'm going to go tell mommy type of thing that people did as a child.

How about posting LL's response to your bringing up. That people are responsible for what is allowed in their local juridstiction.The law is also to broad when they state anything of value. I used to wadger against friends when i was younger for chocolate milk etc. Are they going to lock something up for that because under that law the use of wadgering on water is against the law which is rediculous.The question here is have they investigated gambling in SL to claim it illegal?

If they prosecuted someone for it they'd obviously need to prove that online gambling in SL is actually illegal as the law that governs what it would be states. Have you been to a casino in SL? I guess playing scratch off cards etc in real life then is illegal? I find the law far to broad to actually stick up in court. They can claim its illegal all they like but unless its on the books as SL being illegal how is it illegal. As a service provider they could have LL take down any casino owned by people in the U.S but they cant actually force people outside the u.s to comply. Gambling is illegal in quite a few countries yes but online gambling is something that has only been held to such a scrutiny inside the U.S at the moment.

Trying to speed up the process by complaining to these people is a bit rediculous any way you look at it. Your argument also is a bit off. Your saying they should restrcit it like age play but with what your doing isnt pushing for that you act like it should be banned completely from the Face of SL. Also for them to prosecute us they'd need to as stated by me earlier prove that it is in fact illegal and then if it is truly found to be illegal (not just some spokesperson talking) any game where there is any sort of gambling with in game money would be targeted and i know of quite a few.

There isnt at the time as i said a legal premise based on SL itself they say online gambling is illegal but i ask you again did they investigate casino's in SL or have you yourself to claim that they are in fact casino's as would be described by anything. But then thats against your religion to go which you brought up at the start of this. Without a legal premise none of us can say for certain that it is legal or illegal and it is Legal in most other places around the world to do so (as an above posted stated 4 other countries are all that have laws at the moment). We wont really know till a legal premise is set and someone is prosecuted if they truly find it illegal.

However basing things because AgePlay is being regulated is not an argument either. It'll lead to all sorts of issues into the future. Some people view furries as being into beastiality which is illegal. Rape scenes etc. All of which are choices that people make in SL a rape scene in SL isnt even really rape its a rape fantasy which people partake in of their own free will. Rape would actually instate that it was against their will. You need to be careful were you tread with arguments because they lead to other arguments that overstep the boundries of openness in SL and would entirely ruin the Premise of SL as a whole if everyone started to think in such a way.

All we have at the moment to backup any claim of legality or illegality here in SL is what a spokesperson said

Hi again Lina

Almost all of your arguments have already been addressed earlier, thus I'll simply refer you to my earlier posts, as to not repeat myself over and over. If you have a specific argument against something I said and if I haven't already answered it or a question about something I said, I'd be happy to respond. But really, I think everything that needs to be said has been. It is time to leave it up to LL and the court system.

Have a good one!

I guess we will see what happens.

Edit: I see you edited your post, so I'll update mine as well Yes, furry sex is a little silly, but role playing furry sex is not illegal in any country in RL. Role playing ageplay now IS illegal in some RL countries, as is internet gambling, both of which can be found in SL, but only one of which has so far been restricted in SL.

It seems crazy to me that adults role-playing kiddie porn (sick), which hurts no one at all in RL is being restricted in SL because one or two small foreign countries have deemed it to be illegal, yet gambling which as per MANY studies destroys families and lives everyday and is illegal in many countries and is HIGHLY illegal in the USA, where Linden Labs and its physical servers are located, is not.

Actually roleplaying age play isnt considered illegal in any country in r/l because age play is acting and dressing as a child they cant really do anything about that. Online to a degree they can but as far as r/l is concerned thats controlling what conscenting adults do in their bedroom. But yes it is up to the court system but we wont really know jack till the prosecute someone for a casino in SL and set a legal premise regarding the matter. I did bring up a point i didnt before and that other people havent yet which im not sure you caught. When they do prosecute this thye will need to prove that casino's in SL actually do fall under the law which will be interesting to see as i dont really consider them near casino like to any degree.

However we dont have any legal premise to back up either claim and we wont till something happens but no reason to go speed up the process and make it harder on everyone. Bringing your religion into it also makes it look like an action dictated by that belief system rather then actually being concerned about legality which it doesnt appear that your concerned so much as hold some kind of hatred to them for whatever reason religious view some problems with casino owners (mabye one moved in near you?) but im not sure i see much concern for what could happen to LL or at least a tone that seems sincere about it.

And i edit my post cuz i often think up other things after im done typing. Quite often get ahead of myself when typing...

Hi Lina. You seem to be missing a large chunk of information. No wonder you're confused. Just recently it was deemed by the Dutch to be illegal to partake in virtual role-playing of child sex (ageplay) by any citizen inside their borders. That is what has spurred the restricting of ageplay in SL by LL...

Edit: I'm editing because you edited again, and no problem, I edit all the time as you can tell I very much so care about LL and SL, thus the reason I'd like gambling in SL to be restricted and/or banned before everyone starts getting arrest warrants. And/or the SL economy crashes after the US Justice Dept shuts down SL or some other catastrophe...

It could also be the news thing that was on that fox article to take into account. However the dutch restricted Virtual age play which you just proved my post there. You keep tossing around age play which has a real life outlet as a Sexual Role play between two adults in real life which is what im pointing to. Virtual Age play is deemed illegal by the dutch yes but age play in r/l isnt.

I'm just saying gotta be careful where the mentality leads or we'll all be covered head to toe and have to hold to some mix of every persons view which will get messy. Some people have a weird think pattern and push religious views on others or their own opinions on matters. We cant have rules made up of that and as i said with gambling we cant say with 100% yes or no that it is legal or illegal because there isnt a premise where it was actually deemed illegal in court yes. If they prosecute someone for it we'll find out what the true vedict on the matter is.

That is what I am saying. I can't be much clearer here. Ageplay in a virtual world between two consenting adults is now illegal to anyone inside Dutch borders. If you are Dutch, and you get on SL and ageplay, you can expect a REALLIFE knock at the door by your local authorities with a nice fat arrest warrant.

What I'm saying is that if one country has deemed role playing ageplay in a virtual world as a real world illegal act, and LL has restricted ageplay in SL because of it, then they should follow through by doing the same thing with internet gambling, as internet gambling is also illegal, but this time it is illegal in the USA where LL is located, their servers are located and a massive percentage of their user base is located. That's as clear as I can get

On the part about no one in SL being arrested in RL for gambling yet. Yes, that is true, but also no Dutch citizen has been arrested yet regarding ageplay, and yet LL has still restricted it in SL. It is called "foresight." If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck...

Actually a good chunk of LL's user base is outside the u.s but thats not a matter. What im saying is you cant actually say its illegal in SL. A spokeswoman claimed its illegal based on the law but a premise regarding casino's in SL hasn't been set. More proper wording would be that it may be considered illegal due to current laws put in place but blatantly saying its illegal like its a certainty is off is what im getting at. I agree it may be illegal but ill sit on the fence till its proved to actually be illegal in a court of law.

No one wants to be the first. I question a few things regarding that to be honest with you. How are they going to prove the whole dutch thing in SL? Are you going to have an officer following you around everywhere its kind of hard to regulate it to a degree that it would be entirely successful. Especially if the person isnt a known pedophile in real life unless the dutch police can just come in their citizens houses at anytime to investigate them and there is a police office to every citizen that plays SL.

The same goes for gambling in SL while they can prove the casino owners they cant really prove those that use it unless they are there when someone is viewing the casino...

Ok everyone. I am done posting to this thread. I feel I've said everything I can say and that it is time to leave it up to LL and/or the US Justice Dept. If you have a question or want to discuss further, you can IM me in world, but PLEASE, read this whole thread first. If your question or comment has already been addressed in this thread, I won't be replying to your IM. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.

Have fun all! And don’t get yourselves thrown in the slammer...

Gambling in SL is easily tracked. All the Justice Dept has to do is ask LL for transaction records, which as per the LL TOS, they will be happy to provide, not that they would have a choice when facing a warrant...

Ok everyone. I am done posting to this thread. I feel I've said everything I can say and that it is time to leave it up to LL and/or the US Justice Dept. If you have a question or want to discuss further, you can IM me in world, but PLEASE, read this whole thread first. If your question or comment has already been addressed in this thread, I won't be replying to your IM. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.

Have fun all! And don’t get yourselves thrown in the slammer...

I can't believe this....As any currency can be exchange to USD$...so , ban gambling from all the world. Oh..and just because my religion tell me so...!!!
Religion is for you..not for me or your neighbour. So, if Gambling is forbidden for you because of your religion, please don't try to forbid that for the rest of us. Even if i don't gamble.

Onga Bonga the Volcano god and Bagwand say gambling is good so you can't ban it without offending someones religious beliefs, 2 devine entities beat 1 so bad luck

No need to look so far for a reference on the religeon part.

How about the Catholic Church and Bingo?

My guess is the real "sin" of internet gambling will be the taxes/ lack of regulations and illegal competion to established, legal casinos.

I would speculate that LL has banned "ageplay" because that activity in SL would leave them vulnerable to sensationalist attack in the tabloid shallow end of the media pool. If something that could be construed as child abuse (or gambling by minors) is somehow "depicted" in SL then one or all of LL, participant(s) and "onlookers" (in the case of abuse) could be prosecuted in some western jurisdictions. Attempting to prosecute LL over gambling laws though would be so obviously hypocritical as to be foolish to attempt. Perceptions are what apply most here, and most people will react very differently to fear campaigns on these two subjects.