If AgePlay Is Being Restricted, So Should Gambling...

Prostitution as well...

.... Prohibit Financial Institutions in the united states from transacting with online gambling companies....


Either way though hilarious that I can leave for a day and this is still being discussed. Go figure right?

They can claim whatever they want in their TOS. It may stop a customer claiming damages against LL in a potential lawsuit by a State or a Country against the customer but it does not protect them from any potential liability from what they are doing themselves, namely, being the only ones who assign monetary value on gaming winnings.

Does your religion see lying as a lesser offense?
The US Justice Department also sees lying as something illegal too!

You are lying, there are not that many countries that outlaw gambling in the first place.

Which means you're lying about it being 'highly illegal' in 'many countries'.

Sometimes it's nice to live far from all this BS.

In a sane world there shouldn't be any crime if there is no victim.

They dont assign any monetary value to the winnings you win L which is game money which only has a value if someone else buys it from you.

We're going in circles here. Why would anyone buy L$? They can't use it anywhere else. If LL was not converting L$ to USD$ then L$ would be worthless. At least they would only be used for play money and the most one would hope for is treat an L$ balance as a high score in a game.

In order to sustain the illusion of an open market exchange, LL has given L$ a monetary value which is determined primarily by rentals of computer resources to sim and island owners, the cost of running all these computer chips, and LL's profit requirements of their business model. They are directing, defining and facilitating everything that happens in SL.

All SL players are participating in an abstract simulation and any assumed, realized or even expected USD$ value of SL elements is completely determined by LL and not the players.

Even if you build a house and you sell it for L$1,000, in addition to nobody owning either the house or the L$1,000, there is no real USD$ value exchanging hands until LL allows the conversion of L$ to USD$.

It's the same thing with gambling. RL monetary value of winnings is only realized as long as LL keeps on exchanging L$ for real money, whether or not it's players that think they're doing the bidding.

Because LLabs would love to use Real Monies.But if they did as you know then.............Well. If given a chance gesh can you image then fruits, nuts and totally outranged types that would be in here. If like some of those casino just like rl they are very strange and very dangerious.........And they say call girls on second life are bad....gambers on sl are worse!

Some of you seem to be a bunch of arrogant bastards basing your conclusions on nothing more than your own opinion. Earlier today I forwarded my complaint via email to Visa, Paypal and the US Justice Dept. So far I have gotten back two replies, one from Paypal and the other from the US Justice Dept, both of which said they know about the situation and are investigating. The US Justice Dept reply also sent me links to the new bill with other links to their quotes, after which they assured me they are investigating and will be pursuing prosecutions of violations where seen fit.

All of you in denial can run in circles all you want, but in reality, it comes down to the Justice Dept and the court’s decision on what is legal and/or not. The US Justice Dept already has stated publicly that gambling in SL will not shield those partaking in it from prosecution and now with the email they sent me, it seems obvious that they are pursuing the investigation.

Think of it this way: If the US Justice Dept were to launch an all out bust or raid on all US Citizens and/or Linden Labs regarding illegal internet gambling in SL, that would set a major standard for all future online worlds. If you don’t see this coming you must be 100% blind or in total and utter denial.

Gambling and/or owning a casino in SL by ANY US citizen is 100% illegal. And it is VERY questionable if even those outside the US are legal, as in most gambling is also illegal and any other country at least demands that you have a contract from that country in order to run gambling operations and most other countries demand that gambling only be run by the nation-state at hand. Not even mentioning the fact that the servers which SL is run on are inside the USA! You are all going to burn. Just give it time. The rest of you live near a river in Egypt, it is called DENIAL…

I see a lot of anger in your post. And it very well may be the gambling in SL is illegal. I do not know.

However the part of your quote I have in bold is in error

It is the Legislature's decision as to whats illegal. Its the Executive's job to enforce the legislatures laws. The courts are there to decide if the law has been broken. The fact that the Justice department is deciding whats illegal is part of the problem. And the end result is the errosion of our civil liberties.

If there is a law on the books that is applicible to SL gambling and If the courts agree a law has been broken and the person is guilty - Then people will have violated that law. Not when the Justice department says so.

You know moving the servers off to another land like mecca or another part of the world that allows LLAbs to ecape to rules might be happening sooner then you think... Besides LLabs has stated nothing is real here. And we own nothign sence it does not exist inth efirst place......YEA RIGHT they take our money right..........
VERY NICE piece of writting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahh, more denial. You really think the US Justice Dept with an overall conviction rate of over 98% doesn't know what they are talking about? Give me a break. You live near the river, right?

I'm sure LL running off to 3rd world and developing countries to avoid prosecution of otherwise illegal activities would settle really well in the stomachs of all of their venture capital investors. LOL.

As I recall LLabs invite a porn site to setup shop on sl......They build the location and all the odds and end for them ect......at the end it blowup in llabs face.....Tell me this if llabs is low enough to do this then what wil stop them from avoilding gambling issue........

I understand your point. But really, LL is not some evil empire trying to avoid prosecution by running around the globe. Overall, they are very good people from what I have seen and I'm sure they would ban gambling WAY before they would consider moving their operations to "Mecca." Lets be realistic here, heh.

I say this much hun llabs started as a nice place until they became greedy...Yes there are those that sit in the office that are good people. But for the others well........

My point of MECCA was that sooner of later they might be forced to relocate. To where well we might never know.

Usagi

You are asserting the Justice department and the courts decide whats illegal.

I didnt say the justice department doesnt know what they are talking about. I said if the Justice department is as you say it is - Its an abuse of power.

I really don't see that ever happening as it would be a major blow to any venture capital investors as well as their employees, and I'm not sure if it would make any difference in my original argument, as ageplay is not illegal in the USA, but is illegal in some other countries and yet still LL has restricted it because of these new laws.

But, I understand what you are trying to say.

Understood. It would suck if the police were also the Judge (Judge Dread anyone?). All I'm saying is that if the US Justice Dept is saying that gambling in SL is illegal, I'm sure they did their homework first and they are not simply saying that just to say it.

Sooner or later Pan LLabs is going to be given with a count order because one of thier users was found out to be using their services as a way to get underage kids to met them in real life.....Sooner or later this is going to happen.....Since now with open signups and teens nolonger have to deal with a boring PG related game. JUst Jump in the main game.......

As for the stockholders.....thats what its all about right?!
I understand your point but LLabs is really on the edge of the laws these days.

Usagi

You trust them more than I do.

I dont know the laws about gambling - But from what I do know (i live near Detroit where there are legal casinos) its HEAVILY Taxed and regulated.

Since SL gambling isnt - I can see it being a potential violation.

Ooooooooohhhhh.......
So, you have PROOF that what you're saying is true, but you don't PROVIDE it, eh?

Hi there. What is it that you would like? You can send them an email yourself if you'd like. Are you implying that the US Justice Dept never said that gambling in SL is illegal? If so, you're in for a surprise. You can find their quotes, like Pussy did, by doing a search via Google or by simply emailing them. They didn't state that gambling in SL is illegal just on my emails; they have stated it several times, publicly, to several news agencies. You seem to be out of the loop. You may want to do a little research before calling other people liars; it just makes you look silly, and/or arrogant...

Still in denial, huh?

Quote,
" Some SL businesses already may be operating outside current law. Casino gambling and sports betting are pervasive in SL. The fact that bets are made in lindens, not dollars, won't shield gamblers from possible prosecution under federal laws banning Internet gambling, says Jaclyn Lesch, a spokeswoman for the US Justice Department. "Regardless of how one pays for the bet, it is still a bet if it involves something of value. While not a credit card or cash, [virtual currencies] would still be a thing of value" especially considering the fact that they are later redeemed for cash. " End quote

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0122/p14s02-stct.html?s=u3

I couldn't care one flying rat's patootie one way or the other. I do however like to see arguments backed up with EVIDENCE.



Now e have your url.
To which I respond:
How do you SUGGEST that the Lindens keep tabs on who owns any form of gambling machine? They haven't even figured out how to figure out if a script can crash a sim yet.