The Bible gave us books.

Actually, the response was to comparing it to books, not "the sketchy idea that the bible gave us books".

Either way, none of those terrible things involved me in any way, and books do, so, even still, yes.

To paraphrase Fitzpatrick in the wonderful novel "Fitzpatrick's War", why should I care about things that simply, inalterably, are?

Even were that true, and since most book publishers dont release sales data like that to the public I don't think you could ever verify that, it doesn't mean anything much. For every bible "sold" verses every copy of most other books, consider:

How many are being bought by churches for in-church use

How many are bought for hotel rooms and other public places, and never read

How many are given out on campuses and street corners to everyone who doesn't run by fast enough, and never read

How many are purchased in bulk for 'charity' purposes

Now figure, that given that you can get a bible for free just by asking for one from a million places, assume that anyone who CARES to have a bible is going to have one, period.

So, of the new bibles sold each year, figure how many actually are transmiting data in a productive fashion.

Myth

the Press was invented as a logical evoloution in techinology development. Religious zelots took over the work on the press in order to put out more of their Propaganda

So typical so typical... Christians are always right..... Yeal, tell me another.....

You were already proven wrong on this... Gutenberg produced a textbook first.

Uh,

Isn't what you are doing commonly called, Christian Reconstructionism?

yep... especially when they go back and reconstruct it.

Whats wrong with being opposed to one of Dictator George the Second's Campaign tools?

The War is a total failure.

Harry Potter outsold the bible since 1997. In each year from 1997, or whenever the Potter books came out, there has been more Potter books sold than bible.

if this trend keeps up, soon the bible will no longer be the worlds most sold book.

Bibles where not kept from regular folk for bad reasons as much as because they took SO long to make.

Movable type helped public the need and want for that particular best seller.

That's even more of a fairy tale than what Kevn is pushing.

One of my good friends claims that the Gideon's bible has the best pages for use as rolling papers in a pinch. She favors Revealations.

"The Bible is the most widely distributed book in the world. Both Hebrew Scripture and the Christian Bible have been translated more times and into more languages — more than 2,100 languages in all — than any other book. It is said that more than five billion copies of the Bible have been sold since 1815, making it the best-selling book of all-time. In some cities, the Bible is considered to be the most frequently stolen book." wiki

Please refrain from lumping "Hebrew Scripture" in with the Christian bible in your statements. Christians have the Old & New Testaments. The Old bears only a passing resemblance anymore to Torah.

This statement is ignorant of the facts of the history of the Catholic Church.

It wasnt kept from the public per se as much as the public was kept from it.

As long as you could read latin (ie were rich and educated) and get your hands on a copy (even the printed ones that resulted from guttenburgs moveable type cost 3 years the average clerks salary) you were free to read it.

Not free to interpret it , of course, that would have been heresy.

The Catholic Church did not authorize non Latin Bibles until the 1580's by which time the protestant movement had been going for over 60 years.

Its important to remember that in Western Europe after Christianinty was adopted by the Romans it steadily grew to the domminant power religiously, economically and politically - it basically filled the power vacuum that the Roman empire left in the west as it declined. In Europe the Catholic church was the single largest land owner, for example.

Interestingly much of the sucess of the Protestant movement has less to do with dogma as is commonly thought.

In Germany - protestant movements were used by the various nobles in the Holy Roman Empire to seize land and property from the Church. this resulted in the Thirty Years war.

In England, Heny the 8th in part wanted a divorce, in part wanted to wrest control of the church into his own hands , and declared the Anglican church in a split.

In Most cases the people themselves were not free to choose whether they were Catholic or protestant, Instead, the rule of the political area in question decided for all his subjects.

To get back to the point. Trying to think of the history of the western european bible without taking political context involved is not being realistic.

.

Wiki?? LOL ya, that's a real reliable source of info. Are you sure you did not edit that entry before copy & pasting it?

Briana Dawson

As I said in an earlier post, wiki is fine when it is supported by the majority of respected references. It seems people in these forums accept wiki as a reference over respected sources.

Also, if you would like to verify if it was edited by me, simply look up the word "Bible" at en.wikipedia.com.

hehe - well comments on the source of information asside.

It is probably true the bible is and will always be the single most influential book of Western Culture.


Simply becuase the "Book" as we think of it will be fading in regular use due to the rise of electronic media.

and as good as the Harry Potter books are they wont have the influence of the bible if for no other reason than it coming at the end of an era in printed media and the fact that the bible had a 2000 year head start.

Christianity is mesuarbaly in decline in Europe , this is part of the reason some there think of the religeous right in the United states as Fundamentalists or Zealots.

Universal freedom of reliegeon also means freedom FROM religeon, and thus people are able to explore their own beliefs without some political authority forcing them.

So the bible will continue to decline on a percentage basis as long as Freedom of thought is allowed.

The decline in Christianity ironically is why some beleive the catholic Churched resisted "Vulgar (non latin)" Translations of the bible, and even after non-Latin Masses, in the first place.

I do not think however, Christianity is actually threatened over all , as it offers many things people need. And of course if Christans are right about the order of the cosmos, they wont ever disappear - will they?

I think you have been mislead.

PARIS, Aug. 9 (UPI) -- Young Christians in Western Europe believe more in God, in Spirituality and in life after death than they did 20 years ago -- but fewer are turning to the church and to religious establishments for answers, according to a new study........

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/299

The fact is, more people are turning away from organized religion, toward a deeper, personal relationship with God.

Religion News Blog dot com???

Ya, thats an objective source of information.

Briana Dawson

Feel free to discredit that info with a study that counters the data. Or not. I don't accept your reasoning for rejecting the info because of the source. But I will examine any data you bring forward to counter the points made.

Perhaps, or maybe they're just starting to think for themselves.

Remember - 95% of US prison inmates claim to be Bible-believing Christians. So even if you lose the general population, there's always the parole board to impress.

Anybody can shop around for data to support their case. What makes you think you have a corner on the market?

Religious Decline in Europe?

your quored source is a religeous publication.

Sorry but they traditionally are far from unbiased.

I have however read numerous articles from several sources that have stated that Europe feels that the US , and President Bush are make judements due to their religeon.

And many others which explain the decline in Europe.

In quick search response to your sited source -

http://www.time.com/time/europe/html/030616/story.html

http://www.rps.psu.edu/oncampus/globalization2.html

heres a book on the subject -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521814936/002-7244633-0307208?v=glance&n=283155

Heres one that takes the fact that its in decline and predicts further decline of Europe. (i dont think thats really happening - i personally believe Europe is showing how society will adapt to increasing technology)

http://www.vvdailypress.com/2005/111357098094230.html



------- on a side note -----------
In doing a search on this topic i was amazed how many religeous "NEWS" sites their are - wow is Religeon on the net becoming the new pR0n?
------------------------------------

I am however willing to let time bear this one out, tell you what in 20 years well see the trend and who knows maybe youll be right *rolls eyes*

- Do people not remember John Lenon and his "beatles are bigger than Jesus" comment and why he made it?