The Bible gave us books.

No the power of the church wanted more power (total control) over the poor people - and they had the money to first handmade (copy) the chosen to publish books - then money to spend on the printing press to get more books out and get more power..

It was not ment to print and spread the democratic news as daily papers it was ment to sent out the controlled word from the churches..

They tortured the ones that told against them - locked them in - banned them... they censored and still does.. they first today can accept - yes accept - the condom.. (catholic).

Power and total control are the word.

/Tina- That dont need any middleman (churches/priests) to believe in something...

I would say it's because we are not attacking one another personally at this point.

We can disagree without slinging mud. One reference agrees with one side, the other agrees with the other side. It's been a long debate that is still going on.

Being able to discuss such topics calmly is a sign of maturity and should be encouraged.

AT A GLANCE:

In 1440, German inventor Johannes Gutenberg invented a printing press process that, with refinements and increased mechanization, remained the principal means of printing until the late 20th century. The inventor's method of printing from movable type, including the use of metal molds and alloys, a special press, and oil-based inks, allowed for the first time the mass production of printed books.

Milestones:
888 The Diamond Sutra, a Buddhist scripture, was the first dated example of block printing.
1041 Bi Sheng in China invented movable clay type
1423 Europeans use xylography (art of engraving on wood, block printing) to produce books.
1430 Gutenberg moved from his native town of Mainz to Strasburg
1436 Gutenberg begins work on his printing press.
1437 Gutenberg was sued for "breach of promise of marriage" by a young lady of Strasburg
1440 Gutenberg completed his wooden press which used movable metal type.
1440 Laurens Janszoon Koster (Coster) is credited, by some, with inventing movable metal type
1444 Gutenberg returns to Mainz and sets up a printing shop
1446 Gutenberg prints the "Poem of the Last Judgment"
1448 Gutenberg prints the "Calendar for 1448"
1450 Gutenberg' formed a partnership with the wealthy Johann Fust
1450 Gutenberg begins work on a Bible, the first is 40 lines per page.
1452 Gutenberg begins printing the 42-line Bible in two volumes.
1454 Gutenberg prints indulgences (notes sold to Christians by the Pope, pardoning their sins)1455 First block-printed Bible, the Biblia Pauperum, published in Germany.
1455 Gutenberg completed work on what is estimated to be 200 copies of the Bible
1455 Gutenberg was effectively bankrupt. Investor Johann Faust gains control of print business
1457 First known color printing, a Psalter (a collection of Psalms for devotional use) by Faust.
1460 Gutenberg reestablished himself in the printing business with the aid of Conrad Humery
1461 Albrecht Pfister printed the first illustrated book Edelstein which featured a number of woodcuts.
1465 Gutenberg is appointed to the court of Archbishop Adolf of Nassau
1476 Two hundred woodcuts were used in a edition of Aesop's Fables1476 First use of copper engravings instead of woodcuts for illustration1476 William Caxton sets up his printing press in Westminster, England.
1499 Printing had become established in more than 2500 cities around Europe.
1499 An estimated 15 million books have been press printed, representing thirty thousand book titles
CAPs: Johannes Gutenberg, Johann Gutenberg, Bi Sheng, Laurens Janszoon Koster, Johann Faust, Peter Schoffer, Albrecht Pfister, Conrad Humery, Archbishop Adolf of Nassau, William Caxton, Gutenberg Bible, 42-line Bible, Mazarin Bible, Diamond Sutra, Poem of the Last Judgment, Calendar for 1448, Psalter, Aesop's Fables,



Oh dear. Bible wasn't first. Nor did it give us books.

Please understand there was no interest during the time that Guttenburg lived in bringing the Bible to the Masses.

The whole incentive to "mass producing" a latin bible was to get it more readily to members in the Catholic Church clergy.

It was thought the masses shouldnt get their own bibles - it was only for the clergy of the catholic church or the highly educated.

The Masses couldnt speak Latin , and no Catholic translation was authorized for a non Latin Bible until much after the reformation and the Protestants translated, The Reformation began around 1517 nearly 50 years after guttenburgs's death

While you could argue that the Mass proction of bible did aid in the mass creation of books, in that the Catholic church was a huge entity and that the number of priests and such that would eventually receive these bibles was large .. it is also true that ..

The techonology was due to come into its own , reguardless, since the financial fortunes of Europe were exploding and the need for written records was significant.


**edited for typos and a wrongly placed word**

I agree the technology would have come about eventually. The point is much knowledge has been preserved because it was invented earlier rather than later.

It was quite important to the reformation, without the widely accessible Bible, the Catholic church's grip over the scriptures would have been nearly absolute. Ironically, Johannes Gutenberg was Catholic himself.

The religious conviction of Johannes Gutenberg is documented. His drive to create the printing press was due to this conviction. It was the turning point in modern history thanks to interest in the Bible.

An interest, it should be pointed out, that sprang straight from the Dark Ages and was due in no small part to the paucity of affordable published literature available to commoners.

The Dark Ages: when religion ran the world.

That's where you go off course. Gutenburg was a printe maker. His desire was to build a press with movable metal type. He succeeded in 1440. He did not publish his "Bible" until fifteen years later. Doesn't sound to me like Bible-Makin' was his main concern.

The first mass production was the Bible.

As an inventor one would experiment with books not considered sacred. Once one has perfected the method one would use that expertize to mass produce the important, sacred scriptures that one so loves.

Hmm, I still don't buy it. It really seems to me that the bible was chosen for mass production because they knew they would have a viable market.

Instead of "the desire to give the bible to the masses produced the invention of the printing press", I would say "the invention of the printing press produced bibles for the masses".

On the other hand, all the talk about the Reformation is misplaced. I think that the meddling of the church in politics was a far more important cause of the Reformation movement.

This is why faith-based history is useless.

His-story.... It's all about Him.

The only "Him" I worship is Viggo. He's yummy.

Actually, it's really not. Very little of Gutenberg's personal life is known - most of what we do know comes from court records. Gutenberg was in and out of the legal system of the time most of his life, normally either suing for money owed to him, or vis versa. He was involved in several trades before he developed his printing press, some of them pretty dismal. What we CAN infer from what records we have of him, however, is that money was a fairly important factor in his life, particularly as concerns ways to obtain it.

Yeah, until I saw a picture of him wearing an anti-war t-shirt at an autograph signing.

Damnit

Besides, he needs an easier to pronounce last name.

Can we add Hugh, and start a pantheon?




/me wipes up small puddle of drool off desk and counts the seconds til X3

Well then, we should think about what other things the Bible gave us:

The Crusades
The Inquisition
centuries of intolerance
misguided justification for condemnation of gays
misguided justification for black slavery

Kinda outweighs the whole book thing, doncha think?

-S

Honestly?

No.

Huh?

The reformation was started by people who were within the church's clergy.

One of the main arguements they had is that the bible shoudl be translated so that more people could read it!

In the other major case - when the Anglican church started - the King kept the catholic church structure in place only making it subordinate to him in England

I can't help it if the boys on your team look like this:

'History' has nothing at all to do with personal pronouns. It comes from the Greek (and also Latin) 'historia'.

Oh, we've had a few good ones. Most of them past their prime now though

I'll give ya Charlton Heston in his prime. He was dreamy.

Um lets see,

There seem to be plenty of people who are citing references to support my theory. Wikipedia, in this case, happens to be correct and that is verifiable. Thus my opinions were not at all opinions, but assertions of fact, for which there is ample independent proof.

You however, continue as always to exhort patent falsehoods in support of your position, and thus misinform people. The citation you use to support your claim comes very obviously from a page deadicated to the bible, whose research may be suspect. At the very least, I should think that it is possible that such a site simply gives into the common mythology and restates a generalization that is not, in fact, supported y the historical record.

Simply put, your original argument is just wrong. The bible did not give us books. Perhaps you should argue the stronger point that the bible was an important enough piece of western literature to warrant its early printing on a grand scale.

Well Kevn, if you are all hot fired worked up about wanting to attribute Evangelical Christianity as the font of all that is good in the modern world, are you also prepared to accept responsibility for the destruction of the Library of Alexandria by Christian zealots?

Much of the ancient classical Greek knowledge was lost from that petty and vicious act. Who knows how much history, art and science was lost in that act? Perhaps the Dark Ages could have been diminished or even avoided if that massive storehouse of knowledge had not been done away with.

If Guttenberg printing the Bible was responsible for the modern world today, then it's only to balance out the scales, at best.