Actually, evolutionists do say 'this is how the world came to be.'
Oh, there. That was the missing piece in my post above. How convenient.
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Evolution, a myth for non-theists |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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03-06-2006 09:25
Oh, there. That was the missing piece in my post above. How convenient. _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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03-06-2006 09:31
Actually, evolutionists do say 'this is how the world came to be.' The World does not exist. I have stated this fact already. How foolish can all of you people be? _____________________
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 09:34
Its not logical at all. Evolutionists (group A) supports the theory of evolution The Catholic church (group B) supports the theory of evolution The Cathoic church (group B) supports the creation of life by god This does not imply that Evolutionists (group A) supports the creation of life by god. The only conclusion I can reach is that you seem to think that evolutionary theory requires a description of the origin of life. It doesn't. It describes the decent of species from another species. Using logic 101 it seemed clear to me that you were trying to shift the debate to the origin of life (what I refer to as Stage 3 of the Method). Knowing that you like no nitpick, I framed my post as a question asking if others thought that this was a logical conclusion. Have a misinterpreted your post, Kevn? If so, how? Really, try following the logic, instead of your bias. Person A (abortionist) seeks to legitimize claim B (evolution is real) by pointing to the beliefs of group C (the Catholic Church). Group C's beliefs of claim B leads to the conclusion God created life. Therefore, person A should accept the conclusion of group C concerning claim B because person A uses group C's belief of claim B to support their claim B. |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-06-2006 09:35
Actually, evolutionists do say 'this is how the world came to be.' No. They say "This is how the world works". _____________________
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 09:39
No. They say "This is how the world works". Wrong again, they say they know how the earth was formed and how life came to be. They even have time lines. |
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elgrego Shaftoe
Registered Chicken
Join date: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 101
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03-06-2006 09:47
when will we evolve beyond being a bunch of attention whores?
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,512
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03-06-2006 09:48
Evolution is a theory, not presented as fact, Christian Theology is presented as fact, clear cut and dried no way they can be wrong ever, So exactly who is the fanatical group here?
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-06-2006 09:57
Remember, evolution is a theory, that is how it is taught in schools. That is what I learned in biology class in high school. Do you need a refresher on the definition of a scientific theory?
In scientific usage, a theory does not mean an unsubstantiated guess or hunch, as it often does in other contexts. Scientific theories are never proven to be true, but can be disproven. All scientific understanding takes the form of hypotheses, or conjectures. A theory is in this context a set of hypotheses that are logically bound together _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-06-2006 10:01
Wrong again, they say they know how the earth was formed and how life came to be. They even have time lines. You're confusing Evolution with Paleontology and Geology. _____________________
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 10:10
Evolution is a theory, not presented as fact, Christian Theology is presented as fact, clear cut and dried no way they can be wrong ever, So exactly who is the fanatical group here? Show me the text books that say evolution isn't fact, but a scientific theory, please. |
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Boliver Oddfellow
CEO Infinite Vision Media
Join date: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 484
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03-06-2006 10:11
Kevin
Why is it you openly support the idea of a god that is so miraculous and so powerfull he can snap his fingers and poof 6 days and woot! we got a world, but you cant except the notion that this same god could have had, or has, the supreme intelect to create a logical system for creating the world and said logical system might actually have taken several million years. Seems to me you revel in the notion of frippent magik tricks and acts of great obvious wonder but lack the intellect to see the magik and the wonder in a supreme being that acts in an orderly and systematic way to create the world Like you, I beleive god created the world. I simply believe that god was an intellegent enough being to create a logical system to do it. Futher, God then, when we were ready, gave us the ability to understand science so that we his greatest creation could begin to better understand the true beauty and order of this his creation. Science does not negate god or religion its is gods gift to his children so that when we are ready we may use it to advance to a level where we may truly sit by his side. Someday, when narrow minded folks like you have been banished to the dunce stool where they belong _____________________
Infinite Vision: Specialists in Virtual World Projects
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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03-06-2006 10:13
Really, try following the logic, instead of your bias. What was my bias and how did it fault my logic? Person A (abortionist) seeks to legitimize claim B (evolution is real) by pointing to the beliefs of group C (the Catholic Church). A statement of the problem, which is fine. Although it is interesting to note the attempt to earn sympathy points from other readers by calling Person A an abortionist. Group C's beliefs of claim B leads to the conclusion God created life. Here is where you flunk logic 101. The Catholic Church doesn't belive that god created life because of evolution. Their belief that god created life is quite independent of their belief in evolution. Therefore, person A should accept the conclusion of group C concerning claim B because person A uses group C's belief of claim B to support their claim B. did you even read what you said in the sentence above? I would hope that they accept the Catholic Church's conclustion about evolution being real if they cite it as support for their belief that evolution is real. _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 10:13
You're confusing Evolution with Paleontology and Geology. No, I'm not. Evolutionists believe they know the time line of the earth and life. They state in a rather matter of fact manner that the big bang created all matter known to man. They say when it happened. Then they go on to say when life appeared, and how it came to be. |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-06-2006 10:18
Today, nearly all biologists acknowledge that evolution is a fact. The term theory is no longer appropriate except when referring to the various models that attempt to explain how life evolves... it is important to understand that the current questions about how life evolves in no way implies any disagreement over the fact of evolution. - Neil A. Campbell, Biology 2nd ed., 1990, Benjamin/Cummings, p. 434 from hereSince Darwin's time, massive additional evidence has accumulated supporting the fact of evolution--that all living organisms present on earth today have arisen from earlier forms in the course of earth's long history. Indeed, all of modern biology is an affirmation of this relatedness of the many species of living things and of their gradual divergence from one another over the course of time. Since the publication of The Origin of Species, the important question, scientifically speaking, about evolution has not been whether it has taken place. That is no longer an issue among the vast majority of modern biologists. Today, the central and still fascinating questions for biologists concern the mechanisms by which evolution occurs. - Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology 5th ed. 1989, Worth Publishers, p. 972 A few words need to be said about the "theory of evolution," which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved "facthood" as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled "New evidence for evolution;" it simply has not been an issue for a century. - Douglas J. Futuyma, Evolutionary Biology, 2nd ed., 1986, Sinauer Associates, p. 15 _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 10:20
Kevin Why is it you openly support the idea of a god that is so miraculous and so powerfull he can snap his fingers and poof 6 days and woot! we got a world, but you cant except the notion that this same god could have had, or has, the supreme intelect to create a logical system for creating the world and said logical system might actually have taken several million years. Seems to me you revel in the notion of frippent magik tricks and acts of great obvious wonder but lack the intellect to see the magik and the wonder in a supreme being that acts in an orderly and systematic way to create the world Like you, I beleive god created the world. I simply believe that god was an intellegent enough being to create a logical system to do it. Futher, God then, when we were ready, gave us the ability to understand science so that we his greatest creation could begin to better understand the true beauty and order of this his creation. Science does not negate god or religion its is gods gift to his children so that when we are ready we may use it to advance to a level where we may truly sit by his side. Someday, when narrow minded folks like you have been banished to the dunce stool where they belong I have never stated God didn't or couldn't have used evolution as a means to create the varied life forms. I have said in numerous threads that it's a distinct possibility. I also said it's not very likely, and there is no evidence to say God did use evolution. Hopeful, you understand we are not talking about adaptation and breeding. Those are not examples of evolution, but rather examples of a perfect creation, made to heal itself, adapt to changing conditions and breed as intended by the creator. We are talking about life coming from nothing, without design. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 10:23
Today, nearly all biologists acknowledge that evolution is a fact. The term theory is no longer appropriate except when referring to the various models that attempt to explain how life evolves... it is important to understand that the current questions about how life evolves in no way implies any disagreement over the fact of evolution. - Neil A. Campbell, Biology 2nd ed., 1990, Benjamin/Cummings, p. 434 from hereSince Darwin's time, massive additional evidence has accumulated supporting the fact of evolution--that all living organisms present on earth today have arisen from earlier forms in the course of earth's long history. Indeed, all of modern biology is an affirmation of this relatedness of the many species of living things and of their gradual divergence from one another over the course of time. Since the publication of The Origin of Species, the important question, scientifically speaking, about evolution has not been whether it has taken place. That is no longer an issue among the vast majority of modern biologists. Today, the central and still fascinating questions for biologists concern the mechanisms by which evolution occurs. - Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology 5th ed. 1989, Worth Publishers, p. 972 A few words need to be said about the "theory of evolution," which most people take to mean the proposition that organisms have evolved from common ancestors. In everyday speech, "theory" often means a hypothesis or even a mere speculation. But in science, "theory" means "a statement of what are held to be the general laws, principles, or causes of something known or observed." as the Oxford English Dictionary defines it. The theory of evolution is a body of interconnected statements about natural selection and the other processes that are thought to cause evolution, just as the atomic theory of chemistry and the Newtonian theory of mechanics are bodies of statements that describe causes of chemical and physical phenomena. In contrast, the statement that organisms have descended with modifications from common ancestors--the historical reality of evolution--is not a theory. It is a fact, as fully as the fact of the earth's revolution about the sun. Like the heliocentric solar system, evolution began as a hypothesis, and achieved "facthood" as the evidence in its favor became so strong that no knowledgeable and unbiased person could deny its reality. No biologist today would think of submitting a paper entitled "New evidence for evolution;" it simply has not been an issue for a century. - Douglas J. Futuyma, Evolutionary Biology, 2nd ed., 1986, Sinauer Associates, p. 15  |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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03-06-2006 10:23
No, I'm not. Evolutionists believe they know the time line of the earth and life. They state in a rather matter of fact manner that the big bang created all matter known to man. They say when it happened. Then they go on to say when life appeared, and how it came to be. So now we have established that you nothing of what a scientific "Theory" is --or what the study of evolution is about. _____________________
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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03-06-2006 10:28
We are talking about life coming from nothing, without design. Ding! Stage 3. _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-06-2006 10:28
EVOLUTION:
n.
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-06-2006 10:30
Kevn, I have not proved your point for you. Part of evolution is fact, part is still in theory. Have a nice day.
Oh, btw, check out the definition of evolution above Nothing about big bang, nothing about where the planet earth came from Tequila?  _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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03-06-2006 10:33
Doesn't anybody suspect Kevn of being an alt of an old hand forumite?
Hmmmmmmmmm _____________________
*I'm not ready for the world outside...I keep pretending, but I just can't hide...* <3 Giddeon's <3 |
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
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03-06-2006 10:34
Ding! Stage 3.  _____________________
Reality continues to ruin my life. - Calvin
You have delighted us long enough. - Jane Austen Sometimes I need what only you can provide: your absence. - Ashleigh Brilliant |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 10:34
.....Here is where you flunk logic 101. The Catholic Church doesn't belive that god created life because of evolution. Their belief that god created life is quite independent of their belief in evolution. ...... Here is where you fail logic 101. If the Catholic church says evolution is real, as claimed by person A, and God created life, then those claims are not independent, as you would have us believe. One is the conclusion of the first. If you say 'I believe life was created', then go on to say you 'believe the only creating force in the universe is the FSM', then logically you are saying life was created by the FSM. If I point to you to say your belief in a creator supports my statement there is a Christian God, it would be false, because unless I follow your belief to it's conclusion, the fact you believe there is a creator has no bearing on whether there exists a Christian God. In fact, your belief would be in conflict with my statement. Person A pointed to Group C to support the claim evolution is true, but to make that a valid claim, it would require person A to accept the conclusion of Group C concerning their claim B (evolution is real). Group C says God used evolution, so person A is using that logic to support their claim, even though group C rejects the notion life evolved on it's own. Therefore, person A is using a faulty argument that when followed to it's conclusion ends up refuting the basic premise of person A. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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03-06-2006 10:36
Kevn, I have not proved your point for you. Part of evolution is fact, part is still in theory. Have a nice day. Oh, btw, check out the definition of evolution above Nothing about big bang, nothing about where the planet earth came from Tequila? I said nothing about the definition of evolution, I said show me the text books that claim evolution isn't fact, but only a scientific theory. You showed us Evolutionists do believe evolution is fact already. |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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03-06-2006 10:39
I said nothing about the definition of evolution, I said show me the text books that claim evolution isn't fact, but only a scientific theory. Yes, but what you're claiming evolution to be, is not in the actual definition of evolution. And from what I gather, it is a fact that evolution occurs, how evolution happens is still a theory. Evolution IS small changes, it IS adaptation, why are you unwilling to see that? _____________________
"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway |
