Is Religion allowed in School?

You know we could argue, "the Bible says this", or, "Darwin says that", all day. So what? My question is whether anything that is a matter of authoritarian belief has a place in public schools? I don't believe that asserting belief in a spiritual nature is itself grounds for elimination from schools when all someone has to do to get access to schools is deny any such belief, or to suggest that their own control methods are nonreligious or somehow "scientific" (as if that makes it ok).

Yes. Each "Church" Has a council, group etc that runs the day to day activities, but it is still just


one man who makes the final decisions.

He stands before the crowd,


Uses Psychological Warfare tactics on the crowd

They are told over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over


That they are going to Hell unless.....


And you will be surprised what that Unless is...


Unless you vote for George W. Bush...(This really happened in thousands of churches across the south)


A Cult is a cult is a Cult is a Cult.

Not Abruptly...

They became extinct after a long peroid of being hunted by the later advanced humans.

You keep repeating this as if it had the slightest bearing on reality for the vast majority of religions and churchgoers around the world. IT DOES NOT. This is the line of someone who is himself trying to foment fear and suspicion. Religion is about HOPE.

No the case above is about a certain fundy group that has its headquarters in a certain state in the Rocky Mountains. George W. Bush worships him by the way.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought this was about religion in general, not just Christianity. See this is exactly why you can't teach religion, even comparative religion in public schools, the emphasis gets sidetracked.

Actually it does. every one.


I have met a few true followers of Jesus Christ. One Is currently helping me with a situation in another state.

I met a fellow in Wal-Mart who gave up on churches because he did not like seeing the pastor going to europe with their Tithe money. He was still a Follower of Jesus Christ. He just no longer went to a church.

But this famous person has a global following and has his HQ somewhere on the East Coast.

I've belonged to several different churches in my life and attended services at many more. In none of these was the focus on "you is goin' to hell!", it was all on what can we do to make our lives and our afterlives better. Whoops, by a single testimony your assertion is shown to be blatantly false and can be dismissed as nothing more than an effort to impugn the character of good people out of your own fear.

The thread is about teaching religion in schools, but not personal opinion religions. I'm talking about actual real world religions with tenents that can be discussed critically.

I agree we can't have teachers telling kids what they think Christ's message is, they must teach it from the only text avaliable. If a teacher is caught pushing his/her personal understanding of Christianity or any religion, he/she should be fired. Teaching what the Bible says, and what some denominations say that differ with the Bible should be acceptable. As long as we let the kids know the difference.

Each student should have a firm grasp of what Christianity means. I think it would clear up many misconceptions kids have, because they confuse what a person says with what the Bible says. They also need the basics of all major religions.

Sorry, I don't follow these groups. I have no clue who you mean. Regardless, no one should judge a religion based on any group of it's followers, imho. It would be like me judging Islam for the actions of some of it's followers.

To those people who want religion taught in school...

How much time have you invested in learning about other religions? Have you studied their sacred texts or been to thier houses of worship? Have you done so with an open mind? What did you learn from Islam, Hinduism, and Sikhism? How did it affect your feelings towards your own religion?

I spent years traveling to other counties, studying other's beliefs and customs. I studied their Koran but not in the depth I studied the Bible. I also studied the four Vedas, the Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yajur Veda and Atharva Veda. These books are important to Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. There are many more books I could list, but there isn't space.

These are the kind of things I believe children should understand from an early age, to better undrstand other's faith, and to learn tolerance of others.

I support a comparative religions class in say, high school. So I'll answer this.


I've spent considerable time, especially when traveling on business, to look at temples, churches, mosques and such. I've read just about all the texts, to various degrees of understanding, over the course of my life. Some I had to kind of 'skim' in the boring parts, I'll admit.


Mainstream Islam and Protestant Christianity I find... strikingly similar. Casual, infused with everyday life, quietly certain. How these religions stay separate is a source of constant confusion for me.

Catholicism seems quite different - treated different, somehow, by its followers - I can't quite put a finger on it but it seems a bit more formal. Many visits to many Catholic edifices - it's very beautiful.

Reform Jewish temples seemed very down-to-earth to me, but then I've only been to a few. I noticed a lot of emphasis on grass-roots community support there.

Buddhist temples... two reactions here; depends where, and whose. Runs the gamut from profoundly ritualistically religious to... just plain pragmatic. I recall buying a juice bottle from a monk in a temple once; that one seemed to be 95% snack stand, 5% enlightenment.

Hindu temples: I've only been to three or four. One of the first was active - I didn't realise that beautiful young women purified themselves in the water outdoors there. They had incredibly attractive, lithe naked bodies, and I forgot all about Hinduism for the moment.

I've had little exposure to the Sikh, but I can identify the way they wear their turban at least.

And I've been to Stonehenge, and listened to the quiet whispers of the grass. A lot of souvenirs sold there, too.

My mind was fully open; I've learned little to nothing, and I would have feelings toward my own religion if I had one.

Did you go to their houses of worship? Did you learn about them as a child? How did it affect your own feelings towards your own religion. Did you feel that the other religions were wrong? Part of the reason I am asking is because I have a very religious family member who sends her children to a religious school. She has asked me not to talk to the children about other religions. She does not want them confused at such an early age. I get this same response from many other religious people. Kevn, I agree with you that if fundamentalists would learn more about other religions (and even their own) it might help them to be more respectful of others.

By the way, the less religious and secular people I know are much more open to letting their children explore and learn about many different religions and mythologies.

Yes.... No..... It had no affect on my faith...... They didn't conform to my faith and therefore would be wrong for me.

I can understand your friend's concern with people teaching her children about other religions. I would have a problem too, if it was taught as absolute truth. I believe only the parents should have the power to say what is absolute truth concerning their child.

I think your friend wouldn't object to her child learning the basic tenents of other major religions along side Christianity or whatever her faith is. As long as the information is not biased or taught in an effort to recruit the child into the other religion.

If you think secular people are more likely to support such an idea, read back through this thread. Very few who consider themselves atheist seem supportive. Those who have a faith seem to be supportive.

But my point is, whose interpretation would be used? Even within individual religions they don't agree. Any interpretation skews it. What is the purpose of this class again? Your dismissive tone of my understanding shows that any student will not walk away with any kind of clear understanding but rather more confusion. What if my way is the way? Then they will miss that because of inherent bias.

There should be no interpretation, simply teach what is written. Teach what is the tenents of the faith. Christians agree the Bible is the text we are to follow. Catholics are a denomination that teaches from the catecism, which is the popes decrees. They read the Bible, but it's must be interpreted by the pope and priests. The pope has the final word. That can be taught without degrading the church or it's followers.

We can't teach everyone's personal faith, because there isn't time in the world to do it. Your personal faith may very well be the one and only true religion, but it doesn't help us understand one another. It helps us understand you, but the point is to understand large groups who believe differently. If you start a religion, and get millions to follow, I think we could add it. The purpose of the class isn't to teach the truth, it's only to teach what major religions believe (their basic tenents).

I was in no way trying to debase your beliefs. The whole reason for the idea is to help us all understand each other better. I think there would be less war and strife if we did. Sorry I came across condecending, thanks for telling me.

Kevn, as you know, there is a great deal of discrimination against atheists in the US. I think it is understandable that many would feel threatened by religion being taught in the schools. Perhaps, if the focus was on teaching those religions which are currently not part of the community people would feel at ease? Afterall it is not hard to learn about Christianity if you live in a Christian community. Would you agree to that in terms of promoting greater understanding?

Okay, you're not even reading what is being written. She didn't want him to talk to her kids about any other religion. None, nada! She didn't want her kids confused.

The problem is, here in the USA all major religions are represented well. The whole point is to help us understand others, not only outside of the USA, but also within. We also gain a lot by understanding the actual tenents of our own faith as well, rather than what is taught in Sunday school, because Sunday schools have the broad leaway to interpret or even distort the religion's actual beliefs. I think it's often a matter of personal interpretaton when Sunday school teachers get off track.


Concerning atheists being discriminated against, I think maybe we should include Atheists and Agnostics. After all, they are major groups with a personal belief, the Atheists believe there is no God while the Agnostic believes it's not possible to know if there is a God. They need to be understood as well. Children should be exposed to the idea some people don't believe in God. They should should be taught our Country was founded on religious freedom, which includes the right to believe anything you want about God or a lack of God.

Concerning Christianity, There are several major denominations with different basic tenents, and we see a lot of strife within the Christian community because of the differences between the denominations. I think it would do much good teaching children early what their fellow Christians believe. It's my personal opinion children who understand why others are different have an easier time accepting those differences and being friends.

Egad! Teach religion in school? There would be no end to the lawsuits, I can see it now:

"Hey, they spent way more time on that other kid's religion than they did mine!"

"They made my religion look like meanies!"

"Mine wasn't even mentioned!"

"Yeah, well my god can beat up your god!"

"Nah, ah!"

Come on, we're as painfully politically correct in many (I dare not say all!) public schools as we can get already! Even if we would all agree it was OK to teach no one would ever be happy with any arrangement we could devise.



That's kind of funny, since I recall spending every spare moment my last two years in high school English going over what critical thinking was, and even writing a paper on it. In my first semester of college my Composition and Rhetoric teacher was also, for some reason under the impression that I had no idea what it was. To be fair, teaching is not the same as understanding I suppose.


My mother, a fourth grade teacher, agrees with you wholeheartedly.

So how do you explain things logically like the Ten Commandments? The Catholics have a different version. How do you say which one is correct?

A religion is based on number? What is the point then? Is it simply a popularty contest or are you really trying to give children an educated understanding? You can't teach everyone religion, that is my point. You would have the child come away with a conception that what they have been taught is it, when it's not. Plus kids are cruel. I could see going over the Jewish circumcision ritual which is a big part of their faith, and then the kids turn around and tease the Jewish kids about it. Either you've been out of school for a while, or you went to a different kind of school.

All religions that accept the Ten Commandments believe in the same ten.

I didn't say it's based on a number. I said we can only teach as much as we have time. In a perfect World every belief would be studied. My point with the size of a religion is we invest our time wisely, teaching the major religions because that covers most people in the World.

The children should also be taught there are many other religions that can't be presented and explain why. Then we could explain all religions, regardless of size deserve the same respect.

I think the cruelty is more likely aimed at those who are different, most American children are circumcisized. I remember in school the few boys who weren't circumcisized were ridiculed in the P.E. showers. I would hope teaching these differences early might limit or eliminate that issue as the children grow up.

Hmm.

Some might say the obvious cruelty was when small children had a part of their privates cut off.

I can't see how people object to cultures that do female circumcision, then turn around and do it to their own sons.

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With regard to teaching precisely what religious texts say...

...how does one deal with obvious references to slavery, obedience of women, damning of gays and so forth? Or plain calls for the total elimination of this group or that, as is found in certain texts?

I'm not sure a teacher of comparative religions would 'make nice', as a member of any said religion might try to do.

Would not literature that plainly said 'kill such and such a group' be considered hate speech in many countries? How would such a thing be taught?

An open question.