Abortion: Putting A Face On The Issue

you can rearrange abortionist to make

a robot i isn't

Now we are getting somewhere.

First you need to understand, debate has nothing to do the prior actions of a person who holds a position on a subject. The position stands by itself or falls by itself.

Let's make that extra clear.....

Lets say you state "driving cars too fast kills people".

That statement has nothing at all to do with your driving habits. Although your moral standing to hold the position might be diminished by the fact you lost your license for too many tickets. It doesn't make the statement ("driving cars too fast kills people" less true.

Therefore, it appears to me you are ignoring the issue, and focusing instead on the moral standing of one who holds a particular view.

In online debate, anyone can say anything about their personal behaviour. So saying you did this or that means nothing as there is no way to verify it, and even if it was verified it wouldn't weaken my statement. As far as I know you are a child molester. Your claims don't offer evidence alone. I don't assume you are anything but honest. I don't think you are a child molester. It's just that what people say online isn't proof or even evidence of anything but their opinion.

Now, I don't get into personal question for this very reason, one, it sidetracks the issue as this has, and two, it comes across as bragging. I just don't tell people what I do personally to support my statement.

Real men don't brag about their charity.

Real me respect a woman's right to choose, and do not fear the decision she will make.

Real men defend the weak and helpless from those who are stronger.

Agreed. And when the line is crossed between body part and baby, I will defend the infant's rights.

Your opinion of what constitutes a body part is beyond what science says a body part is. So we will have to agree to disagree.

So when dealing with another man it's "agree to disagree" --when dealing with a woman it's "murder".

niiiiice

No really, we're not. You keep making claims without any way for us to verify said claims beyond "You said so". (which you know to be a fallacy)

Especially when you make a claim about yourself, such as "I am committed to helping defenseless children". We have absolutely no way to discern the truth of the statement.

As you continue to refuse to back up such claims (or deny ours), I can continue to make the claim that you enjoy consuming the flesh of newborns. While this is ridiculous, you have not denied it or provided examples wherein you would prevent such a person from consuming newborn flesh.

OMG Taco, you're NOT a robot??? *cries*

*this is an example of thread derailment*

It does sort of explain why he requires newborns instead of toddlers.

just sayin'

Logically, nothing I do will either make my actual statement "abortion is wrong" more or less true. It's either true or not. So your demands that I prove a commitment means nothing. Are you going to accept my statement "abortion is wrong", and believe it's true if I tell you all the things I do for children, if it meets or exceeds your actions? If not, kill the drive to assume I am not morally rightious enough to make such a claim.

This isn't bragging and it is not charity.

Like I said, your words tell me that you truly have no idea.

The point is that you cannot make the absolute judgement that you do when only addressing part of the issue.

Abortion is not about the medical procedure. It is not about a single law.

You propose sewing up a gunshot wound without first removing the bullet.

Is this the same science that says intelligent design is a viable alternative to evolution?

Okay, choose your own words, maybe you would prefer "telling everyone what good works you do to make your moral position in a debate stronger".

I don't do that. My position stands or falls on its own, I don't need to tell how good I am to support my position.

TIMBER!

It's the science that says what is a body part. As opposed to what is a complete, separate human being.

I can't find any science that says body parts have their own feet and fingers, brain and heart. No body parts ever grow up to be the president of the USA.

There's an ass in the Whitehouse right now.

and a Dick down the hall!

This isn't about "good works" this is about the reality of the world. You can decide whether it is good or not.

I don't "use" anything to make my debate stronger. I presented the issue as it is.

Your "position" does not stand or fall on its own. You want to bring more children into the world, yet you fail to address how to care for them. Likewise, you express an enormous amount of ignorance around what it takes to care for children already here.

I am sorry, but I do not afford myself the luxury of living in an idealistic world where responsibility takes a backseat. I look at the entire issue. I look at the root cause of the problem to find a solution.

I do not have all the answers, nor would I ever profess to bring that to the table. What I can bring are the facts of the world as I have experienced them.

I stand by my previous statements. I do not think you have held a child without hope. I do not think you have taken the steps to provide for children past birth. I do not think that you have a complete solution for abortion.

You want to pass a law to further a moral agenda that makes you feel better about yourself. You need to pass judgement on others because it gives you status and purpose.

What a burden it must be for a morally upright person such as yourself to have to witness the atrocitites of abortion yet turn a blind eye to the suffering of childen.

You are full of shit in your arguments. What is your plan for providing for children that are born into poverty, disease, slavery? What have you done to stop the sale of young girls into prostitution. Do you even know the breadth of this issue? Do you know?

You deal in moral absolutes while at the same time absolving yourself of moral responsibility. This is not about good works. This is about work.

Until they're actually born and it becomes 'not their responsibility.'

real men support womens choices in reproductive rights

until the fetus gets a soul..its not alive

and if a 'quickened' (to quote the roman catholic church) child should be aborted or killed, my personal belief is they return to waiting to be born itno another mother

I'd have a lot more sympathy for your point of view if you weren't wasting money on Second Life. Because, you see, you don't really care that much about life. Oh you SAY you do. But really you don't.

If you did, you'd give the money you currently spend on Second Life to the poor. To those who have no homes. To hospitals that try to save babies that are actually wanted by the parents but might have AIDs, addictions, genetic defects, and other birth defects.

We, as a race (and by that I mean the human race) don't really care that much about life. We fight wars and kill thousands of people. Some people that are against abortion are actually in favor of wars -- a point of view I have a hard time fathoming but there ya go. We have the death penalty. Its ok with us that homeless people die on the streets. If it wasn't, we'd prevent it. Its ok with us that near-genocide goes on in places like Rwanda, and the Sudan. If it wasn't, we'd do something about it. But we don't.

What we do instead is argue over bullshit like abortion -- like that is something that actually matters. Those that actually care about life aren't playing Second Life. They aren't posting on message boards. They are working for CARE or UNICEF or the Red Cross and spending their time helping to rid the world of real atrocities.

Now I don't excuse myself from this. I'm among the people who don't really care that much. On the other hand, I'm not posting on message boards about how abortion kills little babies. Because people and babies die every day.

Do you live in the US? Of course you do -- this isn't an issue anywhere else. Do you know that the US has one of the highest infant mortality rates of all the industrialized nations? Why is that, do you think? (I'll give you a hint -- it has nothing to do with abortion). Could it be that access to health care is difficult for the poor? Did you vote against socialized medicine? Did you vote? Do you rail against paying higher taxes for social programs? All these things mean less babies die. All these things mean less people die. Abortion is nothing, comparitively. Less babies die in the US every year due to abortion than malnutrition. Choke on that fact while you are rallying against abortion.

So given where the real problems are, and given where you choose to spend your time, money and energy, I can only surmise that your motives are something other than life. I don't particularly care what those motives are -- they aren't anything I'm interested in supporting. But how about you call a spade a spade and tell us whats really going on hmmm?

Hey Vivianne..I'm personally for putting our congressmen and government officials on social security and public medicare and medicaid instead of getting so many thousands a year for nothing after retirement.. bet the health care would be fixed quick..