9/11 Pentagon Strike curiosities
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Sparky Widget
Unsympathetic Bastard
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 65
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06-13-2006 06:57
From: Red Mars Normally I don't give in to conspiracy theories. For instance I don't believe for a moment the US gov had anything to do with 9/11 or the WTC attack. There are no alien spacecraft at area 51, and in all likelihood Oswald acted alone.
The pentagon thing though ...?
The ONE single thing that always gets me is the wings. The planes wings. I can easily take everything else about the crash. The almost surgical precision of the hole, lack of wreckage, unbroken windows next to the hole, etc etc etc.
But I always go back to the wings. Did they fold up and get sucked into the hole after the nose of the plane hit? Wouldn't the engines on the wings have made holes too? Wouldn't the fuel in the wings and engines have made a fiery mess all over the walls on either side of that scissor-cut of a hole?
I'm sorry, but the wings would have sheared off and been blown all over the place. Of this I can't be convinced otherwise.
Here's what I think happened:
The 2 planes hit the WTC and the shit hit the fan and EVERYONE panicked!!! OMFGPANCAKES##@@!!! Quick, what do we do? Who makes the decisions? There's one more hijacked plane?? FUCK@@ Where's the President? At a school reading kid stories??? SHIT!! Somebody make the call!! Shoot it down SHOOT IT DOWN!!!
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Oh crap, that idiot shot down a passenger plane!! FUCK!!! Who told him to do that? \PANICK When the press gets hold of this ...... quick, what do we do???? It was heading for the pentagon? okokok ummm, ummm WAIT!! one section is being rebuilt, there will be fewer people there, pop a missle at it and we'll say the plane crashed into it!!! Hurry up, we got maybe 5 minutes to pull this off!!!
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Oh crap! He did what? Shot a missile at the pentagon to cover up us blowing the plane down? Uhhh ummm, OK, damage control, spin doctors, yeah, we can spin this ... Quick, go get the film from every security camera around the pentagon!! Hurry up, we got maybe 5 minutes to keep a lid on this .....
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That's what I think, your mileage may vary A few big problems with that theory. You mentioned "lack of wreckage"? Far from it, there was wreckage all over the place, very identifiable as plane fuselage and engine parts. http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.htmlLack of damage next to the main hole? Two words: Steel Beams. The 757 hit basically in between two steel beams, thus basically limiting the size/shape of the hole. And so yeah, the wings sheared off and that's the primary debris outside the building. http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/pentahole_dimensions_est.htmThe last bit is your explanation. So people panic....and decide to fire a missle at the Pentagon. Put aside the sheer insanity of such a plan...where did the missle come from? Was it just sort of sitting around the Pentagon parking lot? In somebody's office? Remember, it's an adminstrative building, not a combat base. That kind of ordnance isn't just laying around conveniently, not to mention it would take rather a bit more time than your hypothetical five minutes to get a missle in place and armed for launch. Just doesn't add up. However, the truth of it being a hijacked plane hitting the building at high speed? Adds up pretty well. Occam's Razor people! -S |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 07:01
From: Sparky Widget Umm....you live in this country, don't you? According to your location tag, you even (sadly enough) live in the same city as me. Therefore, it's *your* government too.
Whether you like it or not. Deal with it.
-S Yes, it is my government as well. Did I say it was not? |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 07:07
From: Sparky Widget Lack of damage next to the main hole? Two words: Steel Beams. The 757 hit basically in between two steel beams, thus basically limiting the size/shape of the hole. And so yeah, the wings sheared off and that's the primary debris outside the building. The Pentagon was built in the early 40s and used reinforced concrete in lieu of formed steel beams in order to save some 43,000 tons of steel for the war effort. just sayin' |
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Billybob Goodliffe
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Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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06-13-2006 07:08
From: Kendra Bancroft The Pentagon was built in the early 40s and used reinforced concrete in lieu of formed steel beams in order to save some 43,000 tons of steel for the war effort.
just sayin' there are still steel beams inside it, in fact thats what is used to reinforce the concrete. |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
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06-13-2006 07:12
From: Billybob Goodliffe there are still steel beams inside it, in fact thats what is used to reinforce the concrete. what's your point? |
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Billybob Goodliffe
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Join date: 22 Dec 2005
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06-13-2006 07:25
From: Kendra Bancroft what's your point? just countering yours |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 07:28
From: Billybob Goodliffe just countering yours but it doesn't accomplish that ::  hrug:::: |
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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06-13-2006 07:41
So if you think that plane didn't hit the pentagon... where did it go? Rather inconveniently for this conspiracy theory, there's a missing plane that has to be accounted for.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 07:53
From: Fade Languish So if you think that plane didn't hit the pentagon... where did it go? Rather inconveniently for this conspiracy theory, there's a missing plane that has to be accounted for. you talking to me? I think a plane DID hit. I also think the Government allowed it to hit. |
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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06-13-2006 08:03
From: Kendra Bancroft you talking to me?
I think a plane DID hit. I also think the Government allowed it to hit. No I wasn't actually. I was talking generally. Otherwise I would have quoted you or otherwise indicated I was addressing you, out of courtesy. Poor expression on my behalf possibly. |
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Sparky Widget
Unsympathetic Bastard
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 65
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06-13-2006 11:52
From: Kendra Bancroft Yes, it is my government as well. Did I say it was not? From: Kendra Bancroft The real funny part is that you find the actions of your Government laughable but blame them on ME! hahahahahahahaha Words yours, emphasis mine. From: Kendra Bancroft The Pentagon was built in the early 40s and used reinforced concrete in lieu of formed steel beams in order to save some 43,000 tons of steel for the war effort.
just sayin' To keep the thread of the conversation: I stated that steel beams in the building are what prevented more widespread damage from the wings of the plane to each side of the impact hole. Reinforced concrete is reinforced by....steel beams, as stated by Billybob Goodliffe. In the photos of the impact, you can clearly see steel beams, some of which are bent and/or sheared by the plane. So, yeah. Kendra, you keep saying that you don't disbelieve that a 757 hit the Pentagon, you just believe that the government "allowed" it to happen. The question that you haven't answered is, why would they? What proof do you have to say that? -S |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
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06-13-2006 12:08
From: Sparky Widget Words yours, emphasis mine.
To keep the thread of the conversation: I stated that steel beams in the building are what prevented more widespread damage from the wings of the plane to each side of the impact hole. Reinforced concrete is reinforced by....steel beams, as stated by Billybob Goodliffe. In the photos of the impact, you can clearly see steel beams, some of which are bent and/or sheared by the plane. So, yeah.
Kendra, you keep saying that you don't disbelieve that a 757 hit the Pentagon, you just believe that the government "allowed" it to happen. The question that you haven't answered is, why would they? What proof do you have to say that?
-S YOUR is not mutually exclusive of MY. My proof? My proof is that it happened. |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 12:10
From: Kendra Bancroft Yes, it is my government as well. Did I say it was not? It's none of your's government. It's China's, Saudi Arabia's, Exxon's, Haliburton's, et.all's government.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 12:18
From: Rasah Tigereye It's none of your's government. It's China's, Saudi Arabia's, Exxon's, Haliburton's, et.all's government. good point. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
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06-13-2006 12:20
From: Kendra Bancroft YOUR is not mutually exclusive of MY.
My proof? My proof is that it happened. if my memory serves they thought it was headed for the White House, or was that the one in Pennslyvania? i can't remember |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
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06-13-2006 12:22
From: Billybob Goodliffe if my memory serves they thought it was headed for the White House, or was that the one in Pennslyvania? i can't remember They knew there were 4 hijacked planes for over 3 hours. This isn't hard to figure out. |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 12:22
From: Billybob Goodliffe if my memory serves they thought it was headed for the White House, or was that the one in Pennslyvania? i can't remember Pennsylvania one they thought was heading for the white house. I think it was actually heading for the capitol. But they said they thought it was heading for the white house so that when Bush was running scared all over the country, they could have a good reason for him doing it other than him crapping his pants.
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Billybob Goodliffe
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Join date: 22 Dec 2005
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06-13-2006 12:29
From: Rasah Tigereye Pennsylvania one they thought was heading for the white house. I think it was actually heading for the capitol. But they said they thought it was heading for the white house so that when Bush was running scared all over the country, they could have a good reason. that would have been the secret service following thier evacuation plans. however i did see it as a sign of weakness also. |
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Noh Rinkitink
Just some Nohbody
Join date: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 572
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06-13-2006 13:07
From: Rasah Tigereye Pennsylvania one they thought was heading for the white house. I think it was actually heading for the capitol. But they said they thought it was heading for the white house so that when Bush was running scared all over the country, they could have a good reason for him doing it other than him crapping his pants. Considering Bush Jr was in Florida for a pre-planned photo-op session when the first reports came in, why would a suspected attack on the White House affect him? (Disclaimer: I honestly don't know if any of his family was there at the time.) Also, as Billybob noted, the Secret Service has a say in matters of presidential safety. If there's an attack by unknown people on an unknown number of national landmarks (for lack of a better all-inclusive term), they're highly unlikely to want to have him go to places that might be predicted by the then-unknown Bad Guys. It wouldn't be all that inaccurate to say that the dictionry definition of "paranoid" says "See US Secret Service". |
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Ava Cartier
Asshat Extraordinaire
Join date: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 55
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06-13-2006 13:13
I've decided that every person and every entity on Earth has his/her/its own agenda when it comes to covering one's ass.
Is any government beyond lying? I think not. The US government has lied ad nauseum about everything from office supplies to cigar usage.
Is the US government beyond lying about one of its missiles penetrating Pentagon walls to further its reason for invading Iraq? No.
Am I a conspiracy theorist? No. I just think for myself and do not allow propaganda to cloud my gut feelings.
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 13:17
From: Noh Rinkitink Considering Bush Jr was in Florida for a pre-planned photo-op session when the first reports came in, why would a suspected attack on the White House affect him? (Disclaimer: I honestly don't know if any of his family was there at the time.) I hope he at least found out what happened to that goat.
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Sparky Widget
Unsympathetic Bastard
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 65
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06-13-2006 13:39
From: Kendra Bancroft They knew there were 4 hijacked planes for over 3 hours. This isn't hard to figure out. Where are you coming up with this figure of 3 hours? The WTC was hit around 9 (9:03 I think is the exact time) and the Pentagon was hit a something like 9:40. Forty minutes does not equal three hours in the real world, sorry. I notice you still fail to provide a "why" for your little theory Kendra. You stating that the proof is "that it happened" is pretty damn sketchy too, but we'll let that slide. -S |
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Sator Canetti
Frustrated Catgirl
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
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06-13-2006 15:37
Pentagon: Tell me, or physicists of SL, how 2 6-ton engines travelling at about 400-500 miles per hour can not only not punch at least a sizeable dent in several inches of concrete, but also fail to break windows?
Bomb re-enforced, sure, a bomb geos off, it sends small fragements flying at high speed... can survive. Now, 6 tons of JELLO is bound to do some damage at that speed, much less aircraft grade aluminum and other alloys.
Oh, the amazing PentaLawn...
If it hit the ground out front, why could you putt 20ft from the wall? The grass out front didn't even appear to be lightly singed from the blaze of fuel...
Passport? Sure, stranger things have happened. Wrong assembly in the engine? Maybe the maintenance guy had to replace it.
How does one violate the laws of physics, and if not, make a building invulnerable to car-sized asteroids? *edit* Oh, I know, the pentagon rolled d20 vs plane crash and only took half damage.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 17:30
From: Sparky Widget Where are you coming up with this figure of 3 hours? The WTC was hit around 9 (9:03 I think is the exact time) and the Pentagon was hit a something like 9:40. Forty minutes does not equal three hours in the real world, sorry.
I notice you still fail to provide a "why" for your little theory Kendra. You stating that the proof is "that it happened" is pretty damn sketchy too, but we'll let that slide.
-S You're right --just checked the timeline --it was only an hour and a half. Mea Culpa. Discovery of hijacked planes 8:13am EST --crash into Pentagon at 9:38am. Even if I accept that the transponder on 77 was shut off at 8:56 --that still leaves me with over a half an hour for fighter jets to be scrambled over what's supposed to be the best protected airspace in the world. Why were jets scrambled out of Langley instead of Andrews (The OFFICIAL airport of the US Government) which was only 13 miles away ?? Why weren't jets scrambled until 9:13am? But hey --read the timeline for yourself. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/911timeline.htm |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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06-13-2006 17:31
From: Sator Canetti * Oh, I know, the pentagon rolled d20 vs plane crash and only took half damage. Now THAT's funny!! |
