9/11 Pentagon Strike curiosities

People like to refer to "the Government" like it's some giant monster hiding in the deep woods of Washington DC somewhere. You're forgetting that the Government is made up of your fellow Americans. It's not like the President flew the plane, fired the missile, and covered it all up all by himself. If such a thing were to happen he would have to convince a whole lot of your fellow Americans to purposely kill other Americans. Specifically, he'd have to convince members of the US military to kill other members of the US military. We're talking hundreds if not thousands. If you think of the numbers involved you start to see the major holes...not in the Pentagon, but in this theory.

But if you want to watch some video-try here:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/5772.shtml

-Kiamat Dusk

To ensure that George W. Bush and the repubniks would be elected during the various upcoming elections

Did you know that the Bush People (Plumbers) Hired web experts to go into the various forums and told them to make fun of people who questioned 9-11 and anything that is against Dictator Bush????

**ripps your head from your arse**

You seem to have different definitions of "common" and "knowledge" than the ones found in the dictionary.



But, everyone knows (using the definition of "knowledge" that seems to be in use by Einsman, above) that the military is just a bunch of mind-numbed robots who are trained to kill without remorse and without questioning orders, no matter how extreme they may seem to those outside the military.

(That was sarcasm, for those who don't have the proper web browser plugin. )



Even though not a conspiracist, I can think of several ways of dismissing the video, based primarily on the quality and the time it took to release them ("Plenty of time to doctor the video to show what they want you to believe" or something to that effect). Not that I believe them any more than I believe TWA 800 was shot down by the US Navy, mind you.

they could just make the videos of the plane hitting the pentagon public and shut EVERYONE up about it.. grainy 4 frame video just doesnt cut it in 2001/present.

I know that it's supposed to be. I also know that currently it is not. Right now the Government is made up of corporate terrorists with no allegiance or care for the well being of my country or it's people.

ok look. I live like six blocks from the Pentagon -- its kind of hard to define in blocks because you have to go under a highway but its less than 10 minute walk for me.

I was in the Pentagon parking lot on 9/11 at the time of the crash. The Pentagon parking lot leads to everywhere if you can navigate the maze. Before 9/11 I could navigate the maze -- an accomplishment I was exceedingly proud of and which could provoke awe in the eyes of residents who had gotten lost there.

Before 9/11 you could just drive right up to the Pentagon and park. You might get a parking ticket but you wouldn't have been challenged for security reasons (I mean if you looked fairly normal and weren't, y'know, carrying heavy artillery). You could walk in the front door. There was no guard at the door. You could walk right in w/o showing any identification whatsoever. The metro (subway) went into the heart of the Pentagon and anyone could get off there and walk around. There was even a little lame shopping area there where you could get Pentagon type souvenir crap.

A road -- Route 110 -- ran right by the Pentagon. I mean RIGHT BY. Through the front yard. It has since been rerouted.

To say security was lax before 9/11 is an understatement. Security, at the entrance level at least, was nonexistent. It was an accomplishment of our free society -- that the greatest military structure in the world could stand virtually unprotected. Anyone could walk in and gawk.

To live near the Pentagon is also to live near National Airport. Well they call it Ronald Reagan National Airport now. Yes airspace is restricted around here. You can't fly over the Pentagon, Capitol Building, the Rayburn Senate Building, the White House, the Washington Monument and a whole bunch of other government buildings. It means that planes taking off and landing have to do some weird gyrations to aovid all this shit. But before 9/11, you could absolutely fly over the highly residential area right next to the Pentagon. As a matter of fact, its hard to fly into National and not fly over that area. And once you are in that area, if what you want to do is fly into the Pentagon, well before 9/11 there wasn't much that could stop you. Now they have anti-aircraft guns mounted on hummers and bradlees.

Now on 9/11 I was in the Pentagon parking lot merrilly making my way to work. As it turns out, the road that I wanted -- Washington Blvd -- went right by the side of the Pentagon that got hit. I was there, about to make the turn on to that road, when the plane hit the pentagon. I heard the boom, saw the smoke, saw the flames, saw the debris, saw the people evacuating and, once the flames died down later that evening, saw the big gaping hole where one side of the pentagon used to be.

I suppose it could have been a really big bomb that someone set off and not a plane. Becuase I didn't actually see a plane hit the side of the building. But SOMETHING happened. And the hole easily could have accommadated something as large as a plane.

I hate Dubya with every ounce of my being. I think his administration is against everything that makes my country great. I think he is an embarrassment and I think the people that voted for him are a greater embarassment. The amount of hate I can dump out against our president is legendary in some circles. And I think his response to 9/11 and the war in Iraq is deplorable as well.

I also think a friggin plane hit the pentagon. Even if the only person to benefit from 9/11 was Dubya -- not everything is a conspiracy. Maybe the reason there isn't clear evidence is because it burned the hell up. That fire burned for days.

Another debunking of some the theories is here:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

One can always propose theories as to what happened - when they are not backed up by evidence, they cannot be very well confirmed. And regardless of your political stripes, extraordinary claims should require equal levels of evidence to be considered. Seeing all theories as needding equal attention leaves one of the position of thinking all theories are equal, and since you can create infinite theories, is not a useful line of reasoning.

How does this debunk them letting it happen on purpose?

Guess it doesn't, if that's what you want to believe.

It does kind of debunk the whole 'it didn't happen thing' though. Which is what I was aiming at. I quoted you because you asked how could it happen in the most protected airspace etc etc... I was just trying to explain.

But it doesn't explain it. I'm positive a plane hit the Pentagon. I'm just asking how that's even possible given it happened 3 hours into the FCC knowing there were four hijacked planes two of them headings to DC.

Was Norad ordered to stand down?

That's as childish as 'dumbacrats'.

Briana Dawson

But far more clever.

Personally I just think no one was really thinking that they might crash a plane into whatever. Maybe I'm naive.

They were running tests that very day involving planes being crashed into the Pentagon.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/cia-simulation.htm

Sorry, folks. I live in Alexandria VA and on 9/11 was asleep in my apartment only about 3 miles down the highway from the Pentagon. I woke up to the humongous BOOM! and the entire apartment building SHOOK (15 floors, 30 apts each floor). I know firefighters and cops who responded to the site. IT WAS REAL.

"I think everyone needs to watch the videos with an open mind and decide for yourselves."

I would rather people watch those videos, go and do extensive research, testing and computer modelling to see what happens when a jet airliner hits a re-enforced military building, or listen to someone else who has done all that work for them, and THEN decide for themselves.

People seem to think that "common sense" and some videos is enough for them to be experts on structural collapse and the effects of aircraft impact. I'd like to ask; when was the last time any of us saw jet aircraft hit skyscrapers or military buildings? How can any of us, apart from those who have done the research and tests, claim to be qualified to poke holes in what we see, based on no prior experience?

Man watching a duck explode: "That's not what ducks look like when they explode!"
Second man: "How do you know? Have you ever seen a duck explode before?"
First man: "Well, no...but common sense says they wouldn't look like that!"
Second man: "Surely common sense says that a duck exploding looks exactly like that duck we just saw explode?"

"they could just make the videos of the plane hitting the pentagon public and shut EVERYONE up about it.. grainy 4 frame video just doesnt cut it in 2001/present."

Those four frames are all there are (at least, as far as I know). Like the impact of the first plane at the WTC, the cameras just weren't there.

Musuko.

Ok - I have to say at the outset that I don't believe he conspiracy theories about the Pentagon, although there are *lots* of questions that have not been answered, some of which have been raised in this thread.

But what I would be interested in is this. Presumably you were pretty close to the impact point - did you hear the sounds of the plane's engines? The NY planes were at full throttle at the time of the impact, and it is possible to hear the engines screaming at high volume before the impacts. It might be that the plane that hit the Pentagon had needed to throttle back to lose altitude, but even a coasting jet engine is pretty loud when you get close to it.

Did you (or Merlyn) happen to hear the plane's engines?

Things like that happen. Sometimes people are virtually unscathed when a plane crashes, and a human body is a lot more dense than a passport, hence a lot more prone to damage. Crap was blown in every direction, and I would bet that there were other objects, especially of the paperwork variety, from within those planes that rode the leading edge of that shockwave which remained virtually intact too. It's just odds really, in my mind, when we're talking about thousands and thousands of objects. I would imagine that in most disasters, some things survive virtually unscathed.

A Port Authority worker, Pasquale Buzzelli, had reached what he recalls was the 22nd floor, when one of the buildings came down. He was knocked out, but came around a few hours afterward, and was discovered on top of a big pile of wreckage. His injuries were a broken right foot, scrapes, and bruises. Pretty remarkable. This story checks out, by the way. There was another story that was debunked though, where some guy supposedly rode the debris down from 80+ stories.

Probably? The Pentagon is about.. 2, maybe 3 miles from National Airport. I hear planes all the time. I work out near Dulles. I hear planes all the time. After a while you tune them out. I know I had the music in the car crankin cause I do every morning.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that my first clue was the big boom and the smoke. If I heard the engines, they didn't register as abnormal. The boom was definitely abnormal though.

There should be a corollary to Godwin's Law that covers threads on conspiracy theory and somebody mentioning Roswell. Jeez. Roswell for pity's sake! And I suppose that the moon landings were done in a studio too, right?

Somebody mentioned kicking into CT mode when one of the hijacker's passports was found perfectly intact on the street? I was living on 14th Street in Manhattan at the time, and have in my possession a notepad from one of the offices that was hit by a plane that day. Untouched, and found on the sidewalk IN BROOKLYN. Wacky shit happened that day, tragic shit happened that day and NONE of it was the result of some ridiculous plot by members of the government.

http://www.911myths.com/html/pentagon.html

Read. Learn. Pull your heads out of your collective asses.


-S

Well put.

But,but...conspiracy theories are so much more fun than the truth.

Well, I find that quite unremarkable - there was damage over a wide area of the buildings, and it is quite possible for items to appear on the streets unscathed. I am the 'someone', btw.

But *one of the terrorists' passports*? Being torn out of the terrorist's clothing as his body exploded, and emerging from that fireball? It's one thing finding a bit of random debris and quite another to find an identifying document pointing to one of the perpetrators.

I agree with you about conspiracies, btw - but I remain unconvinced by the claimed origin of the attack. It seems to me that the attack was used by the administration to further their political ends.