Illegal Immigration: Your Solutions

I agree that does sound like a lot to go through to work in Mexico. What is the process for getting a work visa in the U.S. though. I understand that conditions there are not as good as they are here, but they still need to go through the right channels to work and live here. If they are here illegally they should not complain if they get caught and get arrested or deported.

Siro Mfume

i have arthris and hard to type some times

While the Mexican government decries calls from legal US citizens for a wall on the border with Mexico, they are mum about the conditions on their own Southern border.

"Many of the illegals in Mexico, who emigrate from Central and South America, complain of "double dangers" of extortion by Mexican authorities and robbery and killings by organized gangs.
The State Department's Human Rights Practices report, released only last month, cites abuses at all levels of the Mexican government, and charges that Mexican police and immigration officials not only violate the rights of illegal immigrants, but traffic in illegal aliens. "
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050324-121935-8473r.htm

-Kiamat Dusk

Great, hyperbole, silliness, and deliberate diversion from a legitimate point.

We arent't trying to kill immigrants, we are trying to keep them from entering the country ILLEGALLY.

You also seem to think that people who immigrate illegally have no personal responsibility for their choice to enter the desert in the first place. Perhaps you believe ignorant mexicans will pile up at the wall, dehydrate, die, and decompose. If you think this, then I understand why you think we should just shoot them.

Honestly, you have said some really stupid things, and you have gone to great lengths to fabricate obscenely ridiculous arguments.

Best of luck to you.

Ok, the origial poster does call for deportation of all aliens. As I stated, that is not reasonable or sensible.

I don't see how a wall or fence (or combination) discounts any of your suggestions. In fact, a wall or fence serves as a tool to make ALL of your suggestions potentially more eficient and effective.

Why don't you stop disagreeing with arguments that are NOT VALID. There has not been a single serious minded leader who has suggested that we deport all illegal immigrants. We are trying to create a reasonable immigration strategy that accounts for the millions who are already here.

My proposal is that we need a WALL or FENCE to stop the flow at the same time we implement a safe, secure and sensible immigration policy. Any policy would have to allow for the many millions who are already here.

I've been responding to replies that suggest a wall or fence is the WRONG THING TO DO. Do you beleive that a wall or fence is wrong? Remeber, I am not suggesting that a wall is built to te exclusion of other reasonable policies, but in concert with them.

Wow. So I'm unreasonable and have an invalid position. I shall be sure to check in with you before any further posting.

Well, while we're not punishing people for breaking the law, any other criminals you'd like to extend amnesty to?

-Kiamat Dusk

Kiamat, all I'm saying is that DEPORTING ALL ILLEGALS is not reasonable. I have no problem with any of your other comments or suggestions.

Tell me you CAN'T understand how DEPORTING 12-20 milliuon people may seem logistically unreasonable (the failure or success of the Airlines should not depend on a government sweep of illegals)

edited: Cut out rude comments. Sorry Kiamat

What I'm saying is that it doesn't mean we shouldn't make the attempt or that it shouldn't be part of the strategy. Just because you may not be able to deport all of them doesn't mean you shouldn't deport all the ones you find. The rest will hopefully be sufficiently de-incentivized by the other steps.

-Kiamat Dusk

The NOT VALID statement was directed toward Musuko's continued responses to emotional and populist appeals. Such appeals are NOT VALID arguments

I would argue that DEPORTING the illegals already in the country is nowhere near as important as stopping the current flow of NEW ILLEGALS

But I agree that agents should be actively seeking illegals and deporting them as much as possible.

"I have taken the liberty of making this readable."

Thank you, but I feel that your efforts were pointless;

"Bring back the troops in Iran too!"

¬_¬

"We are in debt and could have avoided that from the start by not funding the stuff for illegals."

Perhaps you might be in debt because of a very expensive war with Iraq. I mean, Iran.

"Musuko Massiel, do you even live in this country! I have seen you're in the UK?"

I wasn't talking about my country. I was talking about your country. The pilgrims left Europe to be free of state-controlled religious oppression and to form a nation of immigrants. It's such a shame to see those ideals trampled on, and to watch modern America follow the footsteps of old imperial Europe.

"Do you beleive that a wall or fence is wrong? Remeber, I am not suggesting that a wall is built to te exclusion of other reasonable policies, but in concert with them."

Yes, I do believe building a wall would be the wrong thing to do. You cannot afford it, and it would be largely ineffective. Add to that the inevitable outcome of the politicians pushing aside all the other sensible policies once they have completed the visible token gesture of the wall.

Think of it like this: the government puts some extra guards around civic buildings, heightens airport security, then sits back and relaxes, safe in the knowledge that Joe Public will see those visible charades of terror prevention and not realise that no serious effort is being put into tackling the issue.

I tell you, if a wall does get built, the rest of the policies won't materialise. The American/French people will feel safe behind their impenetrable immigration wall/Maginot line and won't bother with pushing for any other precautions.

"Well, while we're not punishing people for breaking the law, any other criminals you'd like to extend amnesty to?"

When the cost (financial, social and in lives) of enforcing the law is greater than the cost of the crime, you have to wonder if it's worth it. If a hungry man steals a dollar, and $1000 is spent catching him and taking him to trial, do you not think, perhaps, a dollar invested in welfare at the start might have saved the money in the long run?

Likewise, given the choice between granting an illegal immgirant legal status, allowing you to tax him and GAIN money, or deporting him at considerable cost (remember, it's a legal matter, so lawyers will be involved; $$$), a sensible person would seriously consider the first option.

Musuko.

Musuko,

What country do you live in?

Temporarily increasing the guard won't help in the long run, it's a bandaid. A wall won't do much either. The image in people's minds of immigrants running across the desert is mostly myth. Yes it happens but it isn't how most get across. The greater majority come across in vehicles, hidden in trucks and trunks and other types of transport vehicles. They pay "mules" a fee to bring them across the border. Many times here in the states people will pay organized mules to bring their families to them.

A wall in my opinion would only create even more mules and more abuse, more kidnappings, more situations where girls and boys and women are abused by the mules themselves.



I agree wholeheartedly. Hit them where it hurts most.



I will confess to not knowing the entire process myself, so I can't comment on this except to say that on the surface it's worth considering.



Many of these people have had children since arriving here. Those children are American citizens. How would you propose addressing this?



OMG!! I...I...I'm actually agreeing with Musuko!!! First time for everything.

But seriously I do agree. A wall would be a waste of resources and wouldn't address the more commonly used means of crossing. And criminally prosecuting people would be as big a waste of resources. We're not talking about murderers and theives here, we're talking about mostly normal hard working families.

I do believe silliness has a purpose and in this case it is evidently serving it. The point of the examples was to show you that you are not only making it harder, you are also making it much more dangerous. I only suggested flat out shooting them because currently, without a wall, a good many people die in the attempt every year. This is the direct result of making it harder to cross near population centers. Adding a wall won't fix the social problem. It WILL result in more people dying in the attempt. Also, I'd like to point out that the inscription on the statue of liberty does not yet have an addendum ", legally, or you could die."

I personally don't think the punishment for attempting to cross our borders should ever, ever, result in death. Even the proposed legislation that might make it a federal crime could not impose a death sentence.

Making legal immigration easily accessable and with a very fast turnaround time with no requirement you be in your home country before you can apply would definitively solve the problem of illegal immigration. Because the people who would still want to cross illegally after that aren't going to be stopped or disswaded by a wall, mines or automated machine guns anyway.

TRY THIS:

Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international
law, or any of that nonsense.

Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for
you and your entire family.

Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.

Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc. Procreate
abundantly.

Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior
with, "It is a cultural U.S.A.thing . You would not understand, pal."

Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop, or
proudly
display it in your front window or on your car bumper.

Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do
likewise.

Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.

Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights
and
will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico

Drive around with no liability insurance and ignore local traffic laws.

Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.

Good luck! You'll be demanding for the rest of time or soon be dead. Because
it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the
world , except right here in the United States, Land of the naive and stupid, idiotic politically correct politicians.

A typical response to this would be:

You imperialst American PIGs think you can just invade a country and promote principles that the US's own fascist hick moron president denies his own people!?!?!?omgzoicks

1. If they are under 18 revoke their citizenship and the ridiculous law that gave them that citizenship and then send them home with mom and dad. If they are 18+ and have a HS diploma they can stay, otherwise make them take a citizenship/English test on the spot. If they can pass both: Welcome to America, pal!

2. A wall is only one step in a greater solution. No one step in this plan will be effective without the others.

-Kiamat Dusk

"Musuko, What country do you live in?"

Britain.

"Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for
you and your entire family.

Demand...etc"

Translation: "They're taking our jeeeeeeerbs!"

I don't think illegals are streaming into America just to take advantage of your welfare system. For a start, your welfare system is awful.

And did you ever think that, perhaps, Mexicans don't bother to naturalise in America because they're constantly greeted by attitudes like yours? I know I certainly wouldn't want to change my culture to be like you.

"If they are under 18 revoke their citizenship and the ridiculous law that gave them that citizenship and then send them home with mom and dad."

So you intend to send people to a country they have never seen, never known, thanks to a situation that is no fault of theirs? What makes you think that country would accept them?

Do you suggest we start imprisoning and fining children for the crimes of their parents?

The Ugly Americans are out in force tonight.

Musuko.

A man goes to his doctor and says, "Doctor, my foot hurts!"

The doctor takes one look at the patients foot and says, "My God man, I should say so! You've got a nail in your foot! Why didn't you take it out?"

The man looks at his doctor and says, "I just told you, because it hurts!"

Musuko.

I am a Latino. So are my parents, as you surely would assume.

They migrated to the US before I was born, looking for a better life. But they did this legally. And I'm talking the 70's - when America was more "American", if you know what I mean.

Neither I (though I am born american my physique is of course latino) nor my parents were ever frowned uppon by the locals. In fact my parents got lots of support in improving their english and at the jobs they worked. I was never harrased nor excluded at school, and I can tell you I was the only latino (there was also one black girl) amongst a class of otherwise all blonde blue eyed kids. We experienced the helpful hand available from the US when you are a legal inmigrant.

Now. I saw first hand the effects of illegal inmigrants in our community. It was incredible. Imagine a motion film, everything nice and green and blue skies. All of a sudden, everything turns grey. Ill kept houses, garbage in the streets. Crime rates rising at record speeds. Fear.

Welfare? If there is one reason america's welfare system might suck so badly is because of the abuse it's recieving. I knew of one Illegal inmigrant family where the wife would have a kid as soon as she could, just to collect more and more every time. Seriously. Before we moved off town, she had like 5 kids - under precarious circumstances. All in the name of wellfare. And that was just one of the many many cases. You may say "Well, americans abuse it too". Well, it's an american system - let that to themselves. I guess if your kid eats up all the candy in your house, it wouldn't be half as bad than maybe a stranger breaking in and eating them up.

Even in my parents home country (Dominican Republic) I know of people who risk their lives to give birth in the US just to take advantage of medical service and the welfare system, though I'm not sure of how that's evolved with all the changes going on.

The situation in someone else's country can be pretty bad, but that does not warrant them the defacto right to break the laws of a neighboring country and act as if it's OK. You see the Mexican president with his back turned towards the situation - of course, it's like 8,000,000 problems less to take care of from his POV. And, of course, you have to count of the millions of dollars that leak from the US economy into the Mexican economy from support money for relatives at home. So... hey. He might even drop a Kudos or two for those who leave.

And I just mention Mexico, but of course there are from many other countries as well, but we all know the situation.

The illegal inmigrants have no feelings for the american soil, and come to try to impose their way of doing things instead of blending in with society. Also, with illegal inmigration, there is no filtering of who comes in. So you get all the criminals and gang members dropping by. Not only causing the beforementioned effects, but also being a serious problem to the social well being of the societies they enter.

All this and many many more causes / effects of illegal inmigration which I don't mention due to time constraints.

Seriously, I frankly don't blame the American people if they go rabid one day and wake up wanting to send them all back in a train. They've won their reputation and any cliche that might be pinned on them. Sorry for the "good" illegal inmigrants, wherever they are.

I Also agree with all the those points, I believe we should be able to say who does or doesn't stay in OUR country, we fought for this land tooth and nail from the british, indians, ourselves, and many other countrys. Pointing to the reason that " Well the indians were here first " or " Well we stole this land from native americans " are both bullcrap, how about all the killing and raiding the more aggressive indian tribes did to americans ?

So if you can force your way into a land and make a claim to it, then its okay? Because that sounds like the situation with the illegal immigrants.

Reitsuki, you are one of favorite forum dwellers.