Illegal Immigration: Your Solutions

"Actually 1951miles / 10miles * 5staff = 975.5 staff."

Ack. You're right. Not sure how I fluffed that one up.

"Not exactly the desired result, eh?"

It's probably preferable to have people settle in your country, rather than work and leave, spending the money elsewhere.

Musuko.

Hi I have a biased view of the whole thing because my father was a INS agent for 30 years so it is a topic that i have heard a lot about

so some of your proposal i agree with, other parts i don't, so i'm gunna respond by point

1. won't work for to many reason's to be counted nor is there really any need

2. This is the only thing that is truely needed to curb most illegal workers if a company gets caught and loses not only all it's profits from this year but the last 5 years..well my guess is most would no longer risk it, but the fines truely have to be onthat kind of scale

3. anything that streamlines gov't is a good thing!

4. eh ok i'm not overly opposed but i do think there are better uses for our already underfunded and over worked law enforcement agencies. Also anybody caught illeagally in the US is automatically Excluded from ever re entering legally

5. YES

6. I agree

7. There are already several in place

Also there needs to be a change to the status of children born to illegals, no longer should they be given US citizenship to be a citizen your parents must be here legally. It is a not uncommon practice on teh border for a Woman to go into labor and run across teh border and turn herself in so she is taken to a US hospital to give birth..and Tadaa her child is a US citizen.

Over all i am glad you pointed out that this whole thing is about ILLEGAL Aliens not immigrents

It's not a complete solution by any means, but a good start, IMO, would be putting some real enforcement teeth in documenting employees and ensuring safe working conditions, with the company's senior members being held personally responsible, in significant fines (as in 5-6 digits, to start) or even jail time (and real jail, not some stupid resort-prison) for violations. If J. Random Executive is likely to wind up spending time in the Graybar Hotel because of what one of his employees did, it's pretty likely he'll take a more active interest in the actions of those further down the corporate food chain, instead of a dismissive "I didn't know they were doing that, I'll slap the naughty employee's wrist".

It's not so much that US workers don't want the jobs as much as it is that they don't want to work for slave wages, and under minimal-to-nonexistent safety regulations, both of which conditions exist quite frequently for illegal aliens. After all, if you [generic "you"] are in the US illegally, you're unlikely to go to the authorities to complain about substandard working conditions (though not as substandard as what's available back home), and risk getting busted yourself.

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On a tangentially related note, I'd not be at all surprised if the seeming desire by the advocate community to not differentiate between legal immigrants and illegal aliens winds up ultimately causing more grief for legal immigrants, who took the time to follow through with an obnoxious bureaucratic headache to be "legal".

Read my thread before... land mines should take care of it

But the US has money to subsidize manyt governments all around the world - including up to just recently palestine, which if they hadn't elected the HAMAS as leaders would have continued to recieve billions in US funding...

I'm sure there can be a billion or two that can be wedged into protecting the borders and enforcing the right that AMERICA has to determine who enters and who doesn't.

..

And I'm latino... but I firmly believe it's not up to no one else to determine who comes in or out of any country but their own people.

Yeah, they should put up little memorials to Princess Di in the middle of it so that curious onlookers get their legs blown off trying to find out what it says. That'd be cool.

Just passing it along...

--------------------

By Charlie Daniels

Mexican Standoff

I don't know how everybody else feels about it, but to me I think Hispanic people in this country, legally or illegally, made a huge public relations mistake with their recent demonstrations.

I don't blame anybody in the world for wanting to come to the United States of America, as it is a truly wonderful place. But when the first thing you do when you set foot on American soil is illegal it is flat out wrong and I don't care how many lala land left heads come out of the woodwork and start trying to give me sensitivity lessons.

I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have anything against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals and anybody who comes into this country illegally is a criminal and if you don't believe it try coming into America from a foreign country without a passport and see how far you get.

What disturbs me about the demonstrations is that it's tantamount to saying , I am going to come into your country even if it means breaking your laws and there's nothing you can do about it.

It's an in your face action and speaking just for me I don't like it one little bit and if there were a half dozen pairs of gonads in Washington bigger than English peas it wouldn't be happening.

Where are you, you bunch of lilly livered, pantywaist, forked tongued, sorry excuses for defenders of The Constitution? Have you been drinking the water out of the Potomac again?

And even if you pass a bill on immigration it will probably be so pork laden and watered down that it wont mean anything anyway. Besides, what good is another law going to do when you won't enforce the ones on the books now?

And what ever happened to the polls guys? I thought you folks were the quintessential finger wetters. Well you sure ain't paying any attention to the polls this time because somewhere around eighty percent of Americans want something done about this mess, and mess it is and getting bigger everyday.

This is no longer a problem, it is a dilemma and headed for being a tragedy. Do you honestly think that what happened in France with the Muslims can't happen here when the businesses who hire these people finally run out of jobs and a few million disillusioned Hispanics take to the streets?

If you, Mr. President, Congressmen and Senators, knuckle under on this and refuse to do something meaningful it means that you care nothing for the kind of country your children and grandchildren will inherit.

But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you get re-elected. Shame on you.


One of the big problems in America today is that if you have the nerve to say anything derogatory about any group of people (except Christians) you are going to be screamed at by the media and called a racist, a bigot and anything else they can think of to call you.

Well I've been pounded by the media before and I'm still rockin' and rollin' and when it comes to speaking the truth I fear not. And the truth is that the gutless, gonadless, milksop politicians are just about to sell out the United States of America because they dont have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the face reality.

And reality is that we would never allow any other group of people to have 12 million illegals in this country and turn around and say, "Oh it's ok, ya'll can stay here if you'll just allow us to slap your wrist."

And I know that some of you who read this column are saying "Well what's wrong with that?"

I'll tell you what's wrong w ith it. These people could be from Mars as far as we know. We don't know who they are, where they are or what they're up to and the way the Congress is going we're not going to.

Does this make sense? Labor force you say? We already subsidize corporate agriculture as it is, must we subsidize their labor as well?

If these people were from Haiti would we be so fast to turn a blind eye to them or if they were from Somalia or Afghanistan? I think not.

All the media shows us are pictures of hard working Hispanics who have crossed the border just to try to better their life. They don't show you pictures of the Feds rounding up members of MS 13, the violent gang who came across the same way the decent folks did. They don't tell you about the living conditions of the Mexican illegals some fat cat hired to pick his crop.

I want to make two predictions. No. 1: This situation is going to grow and fester until it erupts in violence on our streets while the wimps in W ashington drag their toes in the dirt and try to figure how many tons of political hay they can make to the acre.

No 2: Somebody is going to cross that border with some kind of weapon of mass destruction and set it off in a major American city after which there will be a backlash such as this country has never experienced and the Capitol building in Washington will probably tilt as Congressmen and Senators rush to the other side of the issue.

I don't know about you but I would love to see just one major politician stand up and say, "I don't care who I make mad and I don't care how many votes I lose, this is a desperate situation and I'm going to lead the fight to get it straightened out."

I don't blame anybody for wanting to come to America, but if you don't respect our immigration laws why should you respect any others.

And by the way, this is America and our flag has stars and stripes. Please get that other one out of my face.

Pray for our troops

What do you think?

God Bless America
Charlie Daniels
April 10, 2006

"Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor; Your Huddled Masses Yearning to Breathe Free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

So wrote Emma Lazarus in 1883. Her words are found inscribed on the base of the Statue of Liberty; a Welcome, beckoning to all nations and people, to come to America.

Maybe we should consider updating the inscription?

Maybe they should come into the country legally for us to?

Well first off, Musuko, you're just flat out WRONG, on both counts.

I'm not really going to touch the issue on money, the 13- digit debt, and the missing gold in fort Knox, there's not much about that I can say but " Man we screwed up on that one... we better straighten that one out."

19 million? 19 million did you say? Hell yeah, I'd pay taxes to do that. (hire better border patrol) I live in Glendale, Arizona, and am facing this problem HEAD ON. Seriously...19 million? You said that number like it's a large one? Do you live in Malawai or Nigeria? Because Over here, in the U.S., that's a rather average, nay, small annual budget to spend on a workforce.

And dammit, if a single state can put up a stadium with a telescoping roof for practically the WORST TEAM in the NFL, I think a nation can afford to put up a large dividing wall (something another nation has long since managed to do)

Economic damage you say? well, all I can really say to that is: laws are laws, buddy. They break them, they get deported, no matter how many. That and I honestly think we can withstand them leaving. I think letting them stay will honestly do a hell of alot more damage than forcing them out.

Let me qoute you here.

"If you can't compete with some Mexicans (who, lets face it, fought a LOT harder to get those jobs than you EVER will...dodging border guards, crossing deserts and rivers, evading the law, and working shitty jobs with shitty hours for shitty pay with no welfare, no healthcare, no job security and no health and safety enforcement), then you need to start working a little harder."

Most of these mexicans came across by means other than foot, funny guy. Most of these illegals are picked up at the border or somewhere near it by their other illegal buddies. Believe me, I know, witnessed it with my own two eyes. So getting into the Unites States illegally is not such a hardship that you paint it to be.


Look... I'm going to end this post now... I'm tired... got off work at ten. Gotta work overtime tomorrow. Honestly, how anybody can think that getting the illegals out of this country can be a bad thing, even economically...I can't understand.

"19 million? 19 million did you say? Hell yeah, I'd pay taxes to do that."

That was just my very conservative (and miscalculated) estimate for WAGES cost alone.

Remember, vehicles, training, employee insurance, guns, ammunition, security cameras, wiring, heating, lighting, maintainence...

...and then the wall itself. 3000km of wall, half a metre thick, 5 metres tall...

...that's 7.5 million cubic metres of concrete. Then the steel to go inside the concrete...and steel is expensive these days. The razor wire to go on top, and then of course the logistics to get all that material on site, the cost of labour, tools and machinery to build it...

You're talking many billions of dollars, easily. Keep on racking up that debt there!

And the whole thing is pointless anyway. Build a wall? They'll climb it, demolish it, tunnel under it...

"Honestly, how anybody can think that getting the illegals out of this country can be a bad thing, even economically...I can't understand."

It's been shown (I think) that illegals in your country contribute a net GAIN to your economy (they work hard, get paid little, and draw little on the welfare state). In any case, they certainly harm your economy less than paying 100,000 people to remove millions of other people from gainful employment.

Just give them legal status, tax them, and let them buy houses and televisions and cars. You've got plenty of room (30 times the room we have here, but you only have 5 times the number of people we have), plenty of resources and plenty of money and production capacity. In that situation, more people means more consumers and producers; a growth situation.

Think on this:

China is racing to catch you up and eating up all your manufacturing jobs because they're undercutting your labour costs.

So...

...why not steal back that industry by rebuilding your manufacturing jobs, staffing them with immigrants? It's not as if there's a shortage of cheap labour available to you is it? You'd get many new jobs for the American people (constructing the factories, designing them, running them, marketing, product design, etc), you'll keep more of your consumer spending within the country's economic circle (instead of going to China), and all of those new immigrants will come live there, settle there, and spend their wages there, meaning the money is going back into your economy rather than draining out of it. And the net gain? Millions of people added to your population, adding to your consumer base. More people buying your televisions, houses, milk, food, Big Macs, which means more work for all.

Economically, kicking people out is stupid. If you sell Big Macs, how are you going to make MORE jobs if 10% of your customers are deported?

"laws are laws, buddy. They break them, they get deported, no matter how many."

The number is important. If EVERYONE smokes pot and has no problem with it, it'd be stupid to keep that law and lock EVERYONE up. Why do you think alcohol and cigarettes are legal? Why do you think Americans still have guns?

The law is there to protect you. And, personally, I think enforcing the law the way you want to will do you more harm than good.

Face it...

...you have a country with very few opportunities right next to one with a wealth of opportunities. There are going to be a flood of people from one to the other, just like there were a flood of people from Europe to America when you were being created, looking for that same opportunity. And your country didn't break under the strain. It flourished, and how!

You can fight it and lose, or turn it to your advantage. And with negative $8,000,000,000,000 in the ol' bank account, and with your military bogged down in Iraq, you really aren't in a good situation to fight it right now.

Personally, though, I think it's all whining from people who are too incapable, one way or another, of getting a good job off their own steam. Land of opportunity! You can make it there! And if you don't make it, blame someone else for your failure!

Musuko.

So far the best possible solution I have yet seen to the illegal immigration debate was to just streamline the legal immigration process. If it took 6 months to a year instead of up to a decade it can take now, I'd imagine we'd have a lot less illegal immigration. Also removing the requisite that you must be living in your country of origin would allow for the speedy process of legalizing people who are already here. Further it would permit people who have had to seek amnesty from their home country in other countries to apply for citizenship here, should they want it.

Just make Mexico the 51st state

Ok, bad joke!

They want a free ride? Send em off to Iraq, and bring our troops back home.

i like this one!

This is an off topic post ,but you must be talking about Colts, and let me tell ya, they had a better record than anyone else last season, so how can yo u say they are the worst, sure they lose in the playoffs every year but soon they will win, they stomped pretty much every team that was in thier way, they have the best and slowest QB in the league..... This post might piss some people of, sorry lol

OMG I so agree with you...
People who say they read about it and still don't see it , aren't living it and aren't reading and comprehending.
Go to the westside of Chicago around 26th and California, it's like a little Mexico some are US citizen's but most are Illegal Immigrant's.
I live in the Suburb's of Chicago and in certain part's they are terrible.
They call themselves the Latin King's,Queen's and Count's a majority of them are Illegal's.

Also the Education problem, I have complained to the school's about this over and over, they have children who don't speak the English language in the classroom's with the students that do.
1 bilingual teacher to 30-45 student's.
That cut's in on the time the teacher can be spending teaching in 1 language, not as much is being covered.
And people wonder why the school's don't make the grade.

TTFN
Es

There's nothing against the tired, poor, homeless, tempest-tossed nor the huddled masses that are yearning to breathe free.

The problem is with all of the above that are illegally entering the country. "Illegal" being interpreted as not using the legal means provided for those in their context.

As I've said before. The US is an established country, with laws and it's own inherent rights. No one should be allowed to dictate who can cross it's borders, but the US themselves.

I was listening to a radio broadcast on "the day without immigrants" and it's sooo screwed up. An illegal immigrant was saying, on the radio, "this is about making sure we get our rights recognized." UMMMM....their rights?? I'm sorry, but people illegally in this country do not have rights.

I'm not at all against immigration, but you have to do it the right way. I think the U.S. is completely right to crack down on illegal immigrants, the key word being ILLEGAL! It is against the law to live and work in this country unless you are a citizen, exchange student, or on a work visa.

and to put my 2 cents in on the education issue. The transient nature of the immigrants are detrimental to schools making their Adequate Yearly Progress per the rules of No Child Left Behind. They will move to an area enter those schools and try to get established and within a year move off somewhere else because that is where the work went. I know schools in high immigration areas that have an over 50% turnover rate. That means that 50% of the schools population is the same from the beginning of the year to the end. How on earth is someone supposed to successfully teach to the No Child Left Behind standards in that kind of environment. No data collected on the "schools progress" over a period of years can possibly be accurate under those circumstances.

Why don't you complainers about immigrants, illegal or otherwise, just come out and say who you are talking about? Are you referring to Canadians? I think not.

They are. No one likes Canucks.

The right to remain silent?

"UMMMM....their rights?? I'm sorry, but people illegally in this country do not have rights."

America is one of the countries that recognises every human being has certain basic rights by being a signatory nation on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In America's view, and in the view of most nations of the world, they do have rights.

Standing up for the rights of non-Americans seems to be something you stand for. I mean, that's why you went over to boot out Saddam, right? To protect the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all those oppressed Iraqis.

Right? Right?

Musuko.

Wrong. WRONG.

Maybe the U.S. recognizes them as a human being, but they DO NOT have the same rights as a citizen. Period. If the U.S. doesn't give special treatment to it's citizens, what's the point of being one? As far as all the police action goes, I think we should forget all that and fix ourselves. We got enough problems. *laughs*

And matthew, I was talking about the Cardinals... maybe not the absolute WORST, but they're a pretty bad team, nonetheless.

Why stop at 1492? Why not send back all those folks that immigrated from Asia, a few thousand years ago. Then the continent can be returned to its natural state.