Should LL Participate in Resident Abuse?

The title of this thread is silly. Moderating an IRC channel is not abuse. And this thread is a thinly veiled temper tantrum.

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The question is should Lindens participate in conversations using tools which are moderated by people outside of Linden Labs.

Of course they should. It would be sad and silly to see some rule that said they shouldn't participate in conversations like this.

Heh. I think saying it's veiled in any sense is being generous.

I'm a rather new lurker to the #secondlife IRC channel, but I have been a daily user of the EFNet IRC network for over 10 years now. EFNet is anything but official and formal- it's the wild west of the Internet, where the right of way goes to the fastest script and the biggest netsplit.

The channel is unofficial and the Lindens aren't even ops in this channel- they're on equal ground with the other 64 current users in the channel right now. They have no say on who stays and who goes, including themselves. I've been in other EFNet IRC channels where even employees of the company (that created the game that the channel was about) were banned for being insufferable dicks. Honestly, the #secondlife channel is one of the most fair-run channels I've seen in a while- it's not restrictive like some on this thread are making it out to be- Cienna's script auto +v's (flag allowing you to speak) everyone the moment they step into the channel. I wasn't present for the whole Hank debaucle, however I have not seen anyone else ever get kicked out, or their right to speak taken away since I've been going to #secondlife (probably 2-3 weeks now). In contrast, I've already seen 4 people kicked and 2 people banned just today in the other 3 IRC channels I frequent.

Lindens' attendance there is by their own personal choice, and they are there to chill and talk to other players as peers rather than admins. This is not a place where people log on to get a hotline to the Lindens and have their issues bumped to the top of the queue. Checking the chat backlog there for the last hour, the only serious discussions have been about jpgs, this thread, SQL, and a tech at an India helpdesk call center named Harry. Honestly, if they didn't have "ll" in front of their name, I couldn't even tell who is a Linden and who isn't.

Let me point out that I am not berating the channel.

That isn't the point. This has nothing to do with the channel. It has to do with the Lindens using it as a regular hang-out spot while other residents are banned.

It has to do with Linden action, not the channel itself.

I have been in the channel once, I believe, Enabran said hello to me in it. I knew Lindens came into it on occasion, but I was unaware that another resident could ban residents from it.

To the poster above, when the residents hang out in welcome areas, anyone - including Hank Ramos - can hang out there, too. The Lindens should not hang out in a private resident's IRC channel, where other residents are not allowed.

coco

No shit? Really? Thanks for the clue.

*rolls eyes*

The point (which you missed entirely) is that it doesn't seem wise to allow LL employees to participate in an unofficial channel using their Linden names. It's too easy for someone to interpret what they say as official policy.

I could honestly not give a rat's ass about the IRC channel, BTW.

This reminds me of another shitty thing the Lindens did.

I remember there was this huge get-together in New York City a few months back, organized by residents.

Can you believe, SOME LINDENS ACTUALLY WENT?!

OMG.

That's a pretty shady thing of them to do. I mean, since every member of Second Life wasn't there, it was way inappropriate that a select group of people got to chat face-to-face with the Lindens. Especially since you had to PAY to get in and PAY to get to New York. Defacto exclusion, Cocoanutty. You should get on the horse about that one, too!

God some people really are pollyanna windbags.

Only if that someone has a very simple mind.

llLlama: Man, what a rough week. I'm taking some devs to the cantina tonight, they've earned a drink.

Retard: OMFG LINDEN POLICY IS TO TAKE THEIR DEVS TO THE CANTINA THEY PROMOTE ALCOHOLISM

Yeah, that's exactly how the channel works.

At the risk of being pulled into the mud,

#secondlife on Efnet is not an official linden channel. However, I find it valuable to be there and listen to what is being said - I think it is ALWAYS valuable to listen. This is the same reason I try to read many of the user blogs on SL - even the less than complimentary ones. I might not agree with what is said, but at least it forces me to think about contriversial topics that the community thinks are important.

That being said, I remember a few months ago, Blaze announced his own IRC chan. I didn't know about it for a few days, but as soon as I did, I joined the channel. Unfortunaltely, I was the only one there, and stopped checking it after a week becuase I was lonely. I will be happy to join a chan run by anyone who uses secondlife (as long as it is somewhat related to SL). my IRC client is nice that way, it allows me to listen to multiple viewpoints.

Obviously, the population of that chan is a very small subset of the Second Life population, and we recognize it as such. Everything in any form of communication with users is weighed appropriatly. However, I will argue that me being in the #secondlife chan on efnet is more valuble to the community as a whole, than not getting feedback in that form. Further, more is good in my opinion, so if you feel that we are not listening to you enough, and want me to read something, or participate in your own IRC, or what - let me know. I can't promise I will do anything, but at least you will know someone is thinking about it.

ben

No, it would be LL's problem if it happened. Especially if it were a contentious situation.

.

Ben...Meet me in #ButterflySex

Actually it really isn't. Official announcements happen in world or on the official forums. That has always been the case. IRC is not at all affiliated with LL.

let me get this straight.... following your thoughts it seems you are suggesting that there also should be no banning in SL?

And Lindens should not be allowed time off from SL? Time to chat among friends? It's immaterial where this happens, IRC, the corner bar, any number of places.... Let's not forget, Lindens are people too.

Hell, I own a farm, should I not talk to someone who eats corn, tomatoes, or eats bread?

This whole thread has degenerated into those who have no interrest in the channel, and as such are calling foul, and those of us who realize its simply a place to chat among friends.

Too late

Uh no... it would be your mistake.

Nope. At least one person thinks both sides are loons.

Nice job constructing a really stupid example.

How about:

LL Emp: We're we've been talking about <new cool feature>
Reader: Wow, we're getting new cool feature

Don't kid yourself, it happens.

I still don't get how it's unprofessional. The company I work for are like many other companies. In that they wine and dine key clients. They take them to football games or racing or to the ice hockey and install them in their private VIP booths and ply them with expensive food and drink to retain their custom, to network, to integrate, to communicate.

They actively participate in their clients exhibitions and events, attend and invite each other parties and even sponsor and advertise with them, encouraging and supporting their initiatives, ideas and products.

They post on their websites, on their IRC channels and bulletin boards. Hell, they have dedicated people who are paid huge amounts of money to schmooze and buttlick clients!

And do you think for one minute all clients and potential clients are treated equally in this respect? No. They focus on the big names, or the ones that have potential. And the ones that have the money. The 'FIC' if you will.

It's not unprofessional. It's doing business. It's common practice. It's common sense! So why are Lindens supposed to be forbidden from interacting with residents? Or even picking and choosing the residents they believe it's in their own interest to deal with?

Because it's not fair? Waah waah waah.

Do you have _any_ experience at all in the real world when it comes to stuff like this? Any?

If you did, you'd realize that stuff like this can and does happen. Sometimes with very serious consequences.

Spotted this through the quote of someone else... sadly.



Actually, they should be able to visit whichever websites, forums and chat groups they please. That's what being a citizen of the good 'ol USA is all about.

It happens to people who don't know the difference between a formal announcement and an offhand remark about potential feature development.

I, uh, guess we'lll just have to take your word for it.

No, it can happen to anyone. Even you.

Ah.. I see...

Would the people who don't have any real world experience with stuff like this kindly step out of the thread, since Dogspot has declared that your views are invalid.

I have a degree in communications and I am a marketing manager in real life. Does this qualify Dogspot, or should I shut up too?

You can't keep stupid people from doing stupid things Dogspot. If people assume what they read in unofficial places as the word of god, that is their fault.