Should LL Participate in Resident Abuse?

I have already made my case - and others have helped - that their presence there does constitute a service (of information, if nothing else) denied to other residents.

coco

Two points:

1) I don't see anywhere in this thread an unrefutable case. It's your opinion that it's some kind of official service. Just an opinion. You haven't proved anything.

2) So by your standard, if only one resident has been banned from a particular means of communication, then the Lindens cannot use it and should instead create and moderate their own equivalent?

Do you think that Lindens should never post in forums besides this one, make comments on blogs or fansites, participate in online chats, radio or television programs which have a Q&A element?

That is the standard which seem to be espousing. In my opinion, it is an absurdly narrow standard.

Coco,

You are simply wrong.

First of all, we do not all pay the same. Anshe pays a hell of a lot more than I do and I probably pay more than you do. Some folks pay nothing.

I have no clue where you get your ideas about business, but they bear no resemblance to reality. Businesses, US business especially routinely give more attention to their high paying customers. They often get all kinds of perks such as special contact people, little tokens of appreciation, etc. My current employer has "white glove" service from it's Help Desk for people who are deemed critical because of $$ or position (like the CEO).

Software development groups are especially concerned about brainstorming in focus groups with select customers. Customers who can answer things they want to know. Technical stuff, the stuff you say you don't understand.

What Linden Labs should provide to be successful (not MUST) is a basic level of reliable service that meets the expectations of it's common customer. The common customer just wants to boot up, load textures, and go about their business with as little lag or hassle as possible.

If you want to be taken seriously... and you want to convince and persuade, then do it from facts, not fantasy.

Thank you for reinforcing what I said 150+ posts ago but was entirely ignored because it's a good argument

For anyone that missed it:

/108/f7/77722/6.html#post804318

Yep, you two nailed it.

If LL wants to give a special red phone to one of their more important customers that they can pick up and get Phillip on the phone, that's their perogative.

Trying to hold a rational discussion with her is like wrestling a greased pig. It wears you out and excites the pig!!

I know, and you know, that that is not what I meant by "paying the same."

And I get my ideas from the real world, where class action lawsuits go on all the time over this sort of thing.

If I want "white glove" service from Dell, I pay EXTRA for it, and everyone knows about that and can do that.

As an aside, I don't "want to be taken seriously" (how condescending can you get), nor do I need to be taken seriously, cause frankly, I don't care, as I can still play SL. And I don't care if I convnce and persuade Chip, or you, or anybody on these boards.

But the Lindens should care.

coco

I am saying, Keiki, I have made my case, and others have as well. You can accept or reject it. But it will do no good for me to keep on making it, or argue it indefinitely.

coco

I only know what you said... and I replied based on what you said. I can't read your mind to know your meaning if you can't express it plainly.

I think everybody should have equal access to services offered by Linden Lab, based on how much they contribute financially to Second Life. Giving certain people control of things like #IRC or InfoNet, without open and fair bidding/application process is wrong. You may have noticed that I consistently ignore certain "feted" services like IRC, InfoNet, SLUniverse/Snapzilla etc. as I simply refuse to recognize these types of "player government". It is wrong to give power to residents without open and clearly defined application process, even if it is "merely" the power of moderation.

You know what I meant perfectly well. And you don't do yourself any good with these childish pig analogies.

coco

I understand that this issue is open for debate for InfoNet, but to make this statement about IRC has me concerned that you don't understand the nature of IRC itself.

goddamn this is still going ??

How on earth in any way is SLU/Snapzilla some type of "player government"? I started A WEB SITE on my own. No permission from anyone, the same way that you started ANSHECHUNG.COM and plastered it all over every square inch of Second Life. The same of SLExchange.com - it was started freely without any intervention or vote or application process. I started my forums there, advertised them and people used them. Less then a year ago, I developed Snapzilla. Again, I advertised that and worked my ass off to develop the site, and continue to do so to this day - and the site continues to grow exponentially in popularity. You will also recall that when SLEXchange.com was launched, it was featured by LL, as was Gaming Open Market. If you haven't figured it out by now, they promote resident projects that benefit SL. The images on Snapzilla are pure marketing for them. Making real money by selling on GOM was also a compelling thing for them to show off.

When Linden Lab decided "hey, we want pictures on our front page!", they did so of their own accord, without my involvement. Anyone can send pictures to the front page of SL.com without using my site, which is something I actually fought for and requested the development of. How is it again that Snapzilla is "player government"? Can you not moderate the forums on SLExchange? Can you not prevent a problem vendor from participating in your site?

Snapzilla/SLUniverse is not some "feted player government" any more than your various web properties/services are. I know you hate when anyone else is successful at anything, but at least don't misrepresent things. By your same token, ANSHECHUNG.COM/DREAMLAND is a feted player government. You can decide who can or cannot buy there if you wanted, and could ban any player you want from the sims you own. If you take such a strong stance about open access, then people should avoid DREAMLAND by your very definition.

Torley you have been making wonderfully random comments lately. I just wanted to say I love them.

Again, I know what you said perfectly well. Sorry if I score an F on reading your mind.

Do you think it's a young pig? The girl is young, but she looks pretty happy. The pig probably is happy because it doesn't know that it's going to be breakfast bacon pretty soon.

On a side note, you're begining to irritate more than amuse.. and I have a watery building project that is a much better use of my time.

When they wanted to take over the L$ market, Philip said he wanted to hire someone to sit and watch every trade that happened, so why not have a dedicated employee to sit in on an IRC channel?

The Terms of Service states the services that you are paying for, and what Linden Lab provides. Their talking to customers and non customers on the Internet is not a "service" they are providing, or that anyone has any right to. It is not something you are paying for - anyone can go into that channel. Even without being in the channel, you can IM them on the IRC as well. Your statement about it being a service is completely false. As customers, you don't get to dictate who the company communicates with, how they do it, or anything about how they run their business. A class action lawsuit could be filed if they were violating their own terms of service. Please find the clause in the TOS that says "we will never communicate with anyone on a communication medium we do not control access to.".

I'm not a lawyer, Cristiano, but I know this stuff won't fly. It just won't.

coco

Well, excuse me, your majesty, for beginning to "irritate more than amuse."

coco

The thing to remember is that #SecondLife IRC channel belongs to Cienna Rand, not Linden Lab. LL has no more control or authority over that channel than they do over Anshe's Web site. It's a third party project. Therefore LL does not have the option of deciding who controls the channel nor can they place control up for bid.

Linden Lab COULD create and control their own channel. #SL maybe. Then keep it staffed with salaried Lindens to administer. Of course this would all be moot if people just continued to hang out in Cienna's IRC channel so the Lindens would have to spend some money and resources on marketing to convince people to switch and leave Cienna's. But why would they do all this?! How would it be worth it to them?

Oh ya, because Hank got banned from Cienna's channel.

It would absolutely fly - there is not a single grounds they could be sued on. It is perfectly legal, and not even remotely unethical. The channel is publicly accessible on the Internet - it is not on a third party site, network, it is fully open. The fact that someone has run afoul of the channel moderation because of their behavior does not make it any less open. Prokofy has access to the channel, Blaze does as well (and even created his own channel). Do you know the profound official informaition being put out in the channel when the Lindens do rarely speak? "Hi" or "Ok, the preview grid is up". Oooh, sue away on that one.

No, Christiano, I'm not talking about the channel. I don't care about the channel. I'm talking about the pattern where LL gives out perks and privileges (including privileged information) to a select few residents, while other residents are perforce excluded.

coco

Perforce excluded? People are perforce excluded from things all the time. I was perforce excluded from the SLCC because I did not go. I would agree with you if this were some private, hidden thing where they were talking to people in secret, it would be a bad thing. Perhaps having private meetings with telehub landowners, as they did last night supposedly, for example. You can't make a case for exclusion when something is publicly available. Furthermore, if you are going to claim perforce exclusion, that applies to every single meeting in SL, every public and private conversation the LIndens have.

Philip often talks to people at the Welcome Area spontaneously - yet if you did not know about it, you are excluded by circustance or necessity - the very definition of perforce exclusion. Linden Lab hasn't given out any perks here, unless you mean by speaking to anyone and everyone who talks to them in an unprecendented level of access from many many different angles. There is no case to be made for exclusion of Linden access when each of us has the ability to go directly to them at any time, even the CEO.

PS - aww we had come so far, and now you have started putting the H back in my name.

Um... well this thread is about the IRC channel, sweetie. Perhaps you need to start a different thread for that.