Should LL Participate in Resident Abuse?

Because it wouldn't be just one employee. I've been on IRC for what will soon be my twelfth year and I've been in many channels and I've run many channels and help run others in addition to whole servers and networks. If you think a single employee is gonna be able to stay awake twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week without sleep -- since anyone can come into the channel and do something horrific at any time that you can't exactly just script a bot to handle, while the rest of the users in the channel can only yell and hope the op will wake up and do something about it -- then that's silly.

Let's say they work eight hours shift at minimum wage and are willing to work every day of the year and are never sick and you strictly adhere to one each shift.. That's gonna be roughly five Lindens, since going over fourty hours in a week is overtime so so you need some to work part time. That's 168 hours a week at $6.75 an hour in the state of California. That's $1,134 a week just to make sure everyone there plays nice at every possible time. And that's actually a gross simplification in the math/money involved if this was a job. You could pool other Liasons from In-Grid to pitch in on the IRC channel, but that's less people In-Grid and those guys are swamped as it is alread. As it stands the only Lindens in the channel are dead idle almost 99% of the time and all of them are really back-end coder folks multitasking, so it's not like they would suddenly have time to manage it.

Does the current third-party IRC channel have coverage like that? Not totally, we don't. We have a total of five ops with lives and jobs outside of the channel, most of which are fortunate enough to be able to keep an eye on things while at work and at home -- some on different enough time zones that there's not too big of a dead gap. Does bad stuff happen while we're away, sleeping, doing other things, working, etc? Yes, sometimes it does. Have we been very fortunate that no one has decided to run floodnets, DDoS our respective hosts, otherwise attempted to steal the channel and other nasty cans of worms that you'll come across on IRC? Yes, we are.

Will LL be that lucky if they're running a highly visible official channel? I'm willing to say not as lucky, but no one really knows. Even running channel services, nickreg services to make theft of nicknames and channels unlikely, that never stopped networks like DALnet from getting annihilated from rampant DDoSing and attacks.

It's worth noting that many providers are cautious of allowing IRC services to be run on their stuff for fear of people flinging around insane ammounts of bandwidth in order to take channel operatorss offline or cause a channel desync when the servers split or the like. That's why the number of servers connected as EFnet as a whole has shrunk over time besides their own network politics.

Really, I'd rather see LL spend their money on the client, perhaps adding a global chat feature to the client as suggested above. That'd please far more users than trying to please maybe a hundred people or so who would use such an IRC channel -- actually, I think so far it'd only be pleasing five people in this thread since seemingly everyone else doesn't care or uses what's provided for by the time and effort of other residents.

Thank you so much Sweetie. You'll note that I am discussing the channel.

You know I get sick and tired of condescending people on these forums treating others like they are imbeciles. You know that really doesn't make you look good.

coco

Well it's a better balance. It is Christmastime and I find myself mispelling Christmas.

Now about all this - this has nothing to do with Philip talking spontaneously at the welcome area. I have made my case.

coco

P.S. Belaya - they don't need to create their own IRC channel. They just need to get out of the one they are in, since all residents can't access it, and since some residents control who gets to.

Sure it is! I for one did not know that this was the case, and I don't think it's fair! It's unprofessional for Philip to speak when I'm not there, and I demand he stop speaking to select residents inworld immediately!

P.S. Try reading what was being asked that I replied to and have expanded upon twice now.

All residents can access it, except one who was banned after repeated bad behavior, not just on some petty whim as you would have it. They do not need to leave that channel. If someone can't behave in a civil manner, that is their own problem.

You are the one who said "it is not about the channel!" in a thread talking about the IRC channel.

Look, I've made my case about something entirely different. I'm done here.

*sits back and folds arms indignantly*

Who are you trying to convince, Cristiano? I know you can follow me.

coco

I couldn't follow you at all now. Are you talking about the channel or aren't you? 'Cause, you know, you specifically said you weren't talking about the channel.

I dunno, either. The only thing I can follow here is the score.

User Name	Posts	
Cocoanut Koala 	42	
Cristiano Midnight 	28	
Enabran Templar 	26	
blaze Spinnaker 	25	
DogSpot Boxer 	13	
Ingrid Ingersoll 	13	
Belaya Statosky 	12	
Surreal Farber 	12	
Aimee Weber 	11	
Jake Reitveld 	9	
Hank Ramos 	8	
Lecktor Hannibal 	8	
Kris Ritter 	7	
Dianne Mechanique 	7	
Lordfly Digeridoo 	7	
Keiki Lemieux 	7	
FlipperPA Peregrine 	6	
Siggy Romulus 	6	
Juro Kothari 	6	
Cory Edo 	5	
SuezanneC Baskerville 	5	
Joe Foo 	4	
Jim Lumiere 	4	
Chip Midnight 	4	
Eggy Lippmann 	3	
Ricky Zamboni 	3	
Gabe Lippmann 	3	
Margaret Mfume 	3	
Mike Westerburg 	3	
Memir Quinn 	2	
Taco Rubio 	2	
Pendari Lorentz 	2	
Weedy Herbst 	2	
Newfie Pendragon 	2	
Anshe Chung 	2	
Khamon Fate 	2	
Mulch Ennui 	2	
Toy LaFollette 	2	
Cienna Rand 	2	
Sezmra Svarog 	2	
Moonshine Herbst 	1	
Burke Prefect 	1	
Logan Bauer 	1	
splat1 Edison 	1	
CrystalShard Foo 	1	
Malachi Petunia 	1	
ColdFire Bigwig 	1	
Picabo Hedges 	1	
Harris Hare 	1	
Roxie Marten 	1	
Ben Linden 	1	
Erelas Night 	1	
Torley Torgeson 	1	
DoteDote Edison 	1	
Kyrah Abattoir 	1	
Dyne Talamasca 	1	
Gus Plisskin 	1	
Ice Brodie 	1	
Jora Welesa 	1	
Pol Tabla 	1	
Katiahnya Muromachi 	1	
Persephone Phoenix 	1

Make mine 43.

I refer all of you back to the title of the thread.

And to the original post.

That way, you might be able to remember exactly what it is we are talking about in this thread. The channel itself is secondary.

coco

Take one off of Coco's post count, cause she wasn't talking about the IRC channel in one of them.

Okay, here's the artist's conception of what that'd actually look like, keeping in mind one post has occured since then and one from you, but not from me because this hasn't happened yet.

User Name	Posts	
Cocoanut Koala 	42	
Cristiano Midnight 	28	
Enabran Templar 	26	
blaze Spinnaker 	25	
DogSpot Boxer 	13	
Ingrid Ingersoll 	13	
Belaya Statosky 	12	
Surreal Farber 	12	
Aimee Weber 	11	
Jake Reitveld 	9	
Hank Ramos 	8	
Lecktor Hannibal 	8	
Kris Ritter 	7	
Dianne Mechanique 	7	
Lordfly Digeridoo 	7	
Keiki Lemieux 	7	
FlipperPA Peregrine 	6	
Siggy Romulus 	6	
Juro Kothari 	6	
Cory Edo 	6	
SuezanneC Baskerville 	5	
Joe Foo 	4	
Jim Lumiere 	4	
Chip Midnight 	4	
Eggy Lippmann 	3	
Ricky Zamboni 	3	
Gabe Lippmann 	3	
Margaret Mfume 	3	
Mike Westerburg 	3	
Memir Quinn 	2	
Taco Rubio 	2	
Pendari Lorentz 	2	
Weedy Herbst 	2	
Newfie Pendragon 	2	
Anshe Chung 	2	
Khamon Fate 	2	
Mulch Ennui 	2	
Toy LaFollette 	2	
Cienna Rand 	2	
Sezmra Svarog 	2	
Moonshine Herbst 	1	
Burke Prefect 	1	
Logan Bauer 	1	
splat1 Edison 	1	
CrystalShard Foo 	1	
Malachi Petunia 	1	
ColdFire Bigwig 	1	
Picabo Hedges 	1	
Harris Hare 	1	
Roxie Marten 	1	
Ben Linden 	1	
Erelas Night 	1	
Torley Torgeson 	1	
DoteDote Edison 	1	
Kyrah Abattoir 	1	
Dyne Talamasca 	1	
Gus Plisskin 	1	
Ice Brodie 	1	
Jora Welesa 	1	
Pol Tabla 	1	
Katiahnya Muromachi 	1	
Persephone Phoenix 	1

The title of the thread is a complete red herring. The fact that Lindens were in the IRC channel is completely secondary. Hank is mad he got banned from the channel - they had nothing to do with his banning, "abuse" or anything else he's pissed off about. You might as well say "Should Lo Jacobs participate in resident abuse" because she was probably in the IRC channel at the time. (Hi Lo!)

Aaaaaaand after reading the initial post, its again clear (to me anyway) that Hank was specifically talking about the channel, because HE SAYS SO HIMSELF:




The channel itself is the primary subject, coco.

No, actually I can't follow you, Cocoanut. You are claiming that the IRC channel represents the very issue you are opposed to, so you can't separate the two. Either you are including it, or you aren't Make up your mind.

You have in no way shown in any way how you have a right to anything beyond what is agreed to in the Terms of Service.

The main question is should the Lindens participate in a channel that abuses(bans users because they don't agree with them or like them). I'm also banned inworld from the Azure Islands continent for some reason linked to the IRC chat room. I have never griefed anyone inworld, nor done anything in Azure Islands except look at it a few times when it was opened or to visit friends. Now I can't visit friends who rent land and live in Azure Islands.

Does that mean that Lindens shouldn't visit Azure Islands either?

Hank,

All SL users can choose to block whomever they want from their land, for any or no reason at all - it is why we have ban tools. You know that perfectly well. I don't know why you are presenting this the way that you are, but honestly, it is just making you look completely foolish. You act like you did absolutely nothing to warrant being banned in the IRC channel, and on land owned by Gigas. As the owners of that land, they have every right to ban you for any reason at all.

No abuse occured to you on the IRC either - the channel ops banned you for your repeated behavior there. My god, take some responsibility for yourself instead of blaming everybody else and crying foul like a big baby. It really is pathetic and sad, and I would have thought it beneath you.

Hank does not look foolish to me.

coco

Quelle surprise. It isn't just about this thread. It is about how he has acted in many, many threads, and on the IRC itself.

Since the Azure islands land is rented to other people, it's not "Gigas Land" per se. If you want to ban me from Gigas HQ, fine. I wouldn't visit there anyways. But to ban me from a place where you act as another LL or Anshe, providing land services to residents, is just wrong. I doubt the entire population of Azure Islands wants me banned from visiting places there. It's just a tactic to punish me for exposing the truth about a now closed matter.

Edit: And as a side note, none of you nor LL have taken any responsibility whatsoever for any wrongdoing you have done. So expecting me, which I already have, to cave into your version of events is kinda strange to request. But I've already caved. I can't win against a large group of people in that room, the FIC (laugh all you want, it exists). Nuff about this. I'm done.

Linden Lab does not acknowledge private island land sales. As such, Gigas is the owner of the land and has full control over it, including who has access. If the renters have a problem with you not being able to access their land, I am sure they are capable of raising it directly with the people they are renting the land from. If they are punishing you for your actions, that is their decision and right to do so. The way to change that would be to try to work things out, not to fight out some drama fest in the forums. If this matter is so closed, then why do you keep sniping about it?

BTW, I don't know why you included me in your edit - I have had nothing to do with whatever happened between you and Gigas. I don't even participate in the IRC channel that much, so I have no idea what you are ranting about.

I just now realized you said this!

You mean that since I live on Azure Islands, I couldn't have you visit me if I wanted to? I'm sure Nexus and Adam didn't mean this.

I will ask them about this, as it violates my rights as a resident there. I hope this is not the case, or will not continue to be the case, as I very much enjoy living on Azure Islands, enjoy my relationships with Nexus and Adam, who have been wonderful, and love what they have done with the area.

coco

P.S. I am wondering who else is banned from Azure Islands! That can't be right. I can ban people on my own land, and I'm certain Adam and Nexus can't ban people from visiting me. (Especially now that we have P2P.)

Woohoo! New dramah deserves a new thread! *grabs pitchfork* ooooh Adaaaaam!

Edit: Lemme get my opinion out the way now. They can ban who the hell they like from the sim they pay LL for, no matter who their tenants. And you are, I'm very sure, free to leave whenever you like.