Should LL Participate in Resident Abuse?

Talk about your hyperbole. I cannot roll my eyes hard enough at your conjecture that we are now in a state of corruption. That is just plain silly and has zero basis in fact. There are things the Lindens do that I don't always agree with, but to call them corrupt is a pretty severe charge, and completely baseless.

I think Coco was merely agreeing with our good pal Khamon.

I hope something breaks in 1.8 so we can go back to whining about actual things.

Maybe too severe.

But - I don't come to this word lightly. I see the same things happening, thoughtlessly, time and time again. I probably should stay more optimistic, and rachet this down to some less severe term.

coco

What do you plan to whine about, Siggy?

These forums are singular for the number of people who, if they disagree with a concern, deem it "stupid" or "not an actual thing." With complete confidence, even!

coco

I think it is completely inappropriate for LL to allow its employees to make official statements outside outside of the normal, official, forums we have already.

Judging from the names listed, there aren't very many residents who know of the back-door source of official LL information. This opens a gaping hole when offering a level playing field, such as SL. And that is unfortunate and should be put to an end. I imagine that many forward-looking statements are made via that unofficial source, in regards to future plans within LSL or SL itself. Residents who are aware of this unofficial source then have an advantage over other residents who rely on the official source of information (this forum), which is certainly slower to release statements.

Example one: suppose there were ongoing discussions between LL employees, and IRC listeners a year ago. The discussions were about the intent to add streaming video media, and how to go about it in the best possible way. Meantime, another resident searches the official SL forums for in-world video and finds very little info - meaning there could be a market for in-world video. That resident then creates a product only to have SL release streaming media capabilities a month later. Had the Linden employee used the official SL forum for discussions about streaming video, the product creator wouldn't have waisted time developing an unneeded product.

Example two: A Linden uses an alt to spend time within the IRC chatroom. Most of the regulars are aware the alt is a Linden. The Linden hints of an impending feature to be added very soon, and that feature is P2P. Some residents listening in the IRC chat then decide to offload a bit of TH land... for a price that's, at the time, a bargain.

Example three: Lindens spend time in the IRC chat discussing possible new LSL functions being added to SL. One of the residents listening in on the chat gets a great project idea which requires the new LSL function. The resident writes a script using this function. A month or so later, a new version of SL is released with the added LSL function, and the IRC resident releases a product, immediately gaining an advantage over other SL residents who were not present in the IRC chatroom.

Any comments made by an LL employee in that IRC chatroom, should also be posted here on the official SL forums. Of course, I don't mean every, "Hello." I'm referring to any statement which would have an impact on the future of SL.

I'm whining about you whining about calling me a whiner..

And yah I think it the whole 'corrupt' issue is 'stupid' and 'not an actual thing' dare I say also 'made up' and 'without basis in fact' - with a massive ring of confidence... Not so much if because I disagree - more because I think its bullshit.. there is a subtle difference...

In the interim I'll watch the shiney silver dollars bounce off your forehead (no I'm not going to explain that comment - don't even ask me to).

I never make these lists.

*patpats* I never do either.

How do you feel about the Infonet issue, Siggy?

coco

Not nearly as annoying as the overuse of the word "fucking."

coco

Yes, they do. Whether they like it or not.

They represent LL whenever in uniform. In uniform is when they are identifiable by Linden name.

coco

If I ever even suspected that the Lindens would punish someone for something they did in the channel, regardless if we wind up banning the punished person or not, I'd remove the Lindens instantly. I agree with this entirely and I assure you, the moment something like that happens, I'd have no qualms about removing them to prevent a threat to the neutrality of the channel.

No, I was not.

coco

Cristiano, I have thought about it, and I still don't agree they are analogous. They SEEM analogous, but they by and large aren't. SLCC was a one-time (or at least once-yearly) event, and the first of its kind. It was also structured, with each individual having basically a certain amount of time to speak.

The IRC channel is continual, and unstructured. At the SLCC - or any TSO convention, or whatever - it would be unusual to kick someone out. I would hate to even imagine such a scene. It isn't hard, though, to imagine a group of people deciding that they no longer want to hear from one or more individuals, and kicking them off their channel.

In those ways, they are not analogous. In some ways, they are - in that in neither case is it a matter of a Linden organization. The Lindens, I suppose it could be said, were more or less guests at SLCC?

Nonetheless, I don't agree they are analogous because SLCC is somewhat special, while IRC is as daily a thing as the forums themselves. Besides, I wouldn't want to conclude that the SLCC is exactly the same thing as IRC, or that it contains the same pitfalls, because then I would have to say the Lindens shouldn't attend the SLCC, either. But I don't think it does contain the same pitfalls. (At least not so far.)

As it is, I will say simply that the Lindens have NO business hanging out in this IRC channel. If they want a channel, they should create one of their own, not frequent one in which other residents are made uncomfortable to be there, or are outright booted from it.

coco

If they have "LL" prepended to their handle, they absolutely do. Like it or not, that's the way it is. They're using their workplace identities, so their statements reflect on Linden Lab.

*wishes daily for the power to ban people from the forums*

It is time for Linden Lab start their own #IRC channel.

I think its funnier than shit... I've been laughing about it for days now - and I plan to inculde a summary of it on 'Forum Watch' on my radio show on Sunday - a segment devoted to assinine shit that I'll summarise so the good residents of SL don't have to read it... shit I guess the lindens better start their own radio station now..

... fuck, they just did.... COMPENSATION!

Next question?

They can call it #FIC and we can all get a jolly good laugh out of it then..

Are you married? I see my unborn children in your words

Probably the only thing left I have to say on this issue would be the following...

If the majority of SLers and Linden Lab side with Adam Zaius/Nexus Nash/Gigas/Azure Islands/SecondServer.net, regardless of the facts involved and only because of their closeness, friendship, power, then I have nothing else to say.

If the majority of SLers believe that I'm a griefer and a liar, then I should be banned from IRC and from SL. I'm just one person against a whole group of powerful, influential, and frankly more talented and invested people in SL. Maybe I should take the advice of these people, shut the fuck up, sit down and take whatever truth or reality they deem fit to impose upon me.

For the good of our sanity, I rest my case. Adam, Nexus, Splat, Ice, and everyone in Gigas, Second Server, Azure Islands, and other various projects of this influential group and Linden Lab, you've won. I give in. You write and rewrite the history as you see fit.

--End of Line

Honestly Hank, I don't know any of these people or you for that matter and all I know for sure from all this is that you need a break. It just aint that important.

I was just curious about that one, since I think Jonquille was concerned about that one, and but I could have my people mixed up again.

coco

Hank,

Part of the problem is not your lack of believability. I have always liked you and have no reason to doubt you. However, the way I have seen you behave has been part of the issue. It is much the same criticism that Merwan received after awhile. This is a private matter that you are asking people to take sides over. Many people don't know any of you, and some know all of you. It is nearly impossible to take sides when the two sides claim completely different things and blame each other. You know full well your truth is your version of it, and theirs is theirs - and that the actual truth is somewhere in between. By constantly fanning the flame of drama, you have actually only harmed yourself and brought a lot of this on. I feel bad for you, but take some responsibility for your own actions as well.

There also reaches a point where you need to turn the page and let things go - until you do that, this is going to continue to consume you, and only hurt you even more in the end. Easier said than done, I know, but from an outside view, it definitely appears that you are coming undone.