Should LL Participate in Resident Abuse?

Yeah, I fully encourage LL to hire dedicated Lindens to babysit an IRC channel 24/7 (and you better believe it requires babysitting like that -- not just from resident abuse, but from other nasty things related to running an IRC channel and server in general) -- just so what may be a hundred people at the most, if not two hundred tops if I'm being insanely generous, would at all ever use such a resource out of 90,000 people. That'd be money well spent, totally. No need to hire more Liasons or coders for the game itself, we have plenty of those already.

In the TSO IRC channel, people could be there without any moderators there. It worked okay.

Amazing, though, that with a game of 90k people it is TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE for LL to have its own IRC channel.

Even if it is, the Lindens don't belong in this IRC channel. Not when the residents there can ban other players, plot against players, and all the sorts of things that go on there.

coco

Have you ever run an IRC channel, Cocoanut? And are you positive the TSO one was in fact on the IRC? Could you use any client program to get to it, or could you only go through their web page? The reason that I ask is because it is true - keeping an ongoing IRC chat room is not trivial - you have to deal with a lot of crap because of the nature of the IRC.

I'm pretty sure it was IRC. And I'm pretty sure it was listed on the web page. I'm not good at technical things, and I remember it was a miracle I managed to get in it at all, but it was right there, for everybody.

coco

I vaguely recall the chat room too - but I think it was their own custom little web thing, I don't recall it being IRC. You rarely connect to the IRC through a web page - you normally used a specialized client program. I have a Java IRC client on SLU for people to use, but it took me awhile to even find that. If it were just some proprietary chat server that they used, that would make a big difference.

Personally, what I think LL should do is to put a general chat channel or channels in SL that go across all sims, that we can join or exit at will. WoW, EQ2, and many other online evironments have this. I would also like to see there be an external gateway to it. Part of the value of the IRC channel is being able to connect with other SL people when you can't be in world - it is why I enjoy it, and I HATE THE IRC. For a long time, I didn't even like the channel so much, it took me awhile to warm up to it.

I don't think the Lindens need to run their own IRC channel or server, that would be wasted resources. They just need to provide us with better abilities to chat globally. I think a series of global channels, along with local sim chat channels (for events and things that would get around range problems) would be a great step forward.

Christiano, speaking of moderating servers, I tried to log into teamspeak today and it was full!!!

when i got in, no one from FIH was on...

we need a moderator!!!

/hijack

I will give you the ability to kick people out, I'll deal with it this weekend.

LOL - well just because Jonquille and I are married in RL doesn't mean we share the same brain - we have differring opinions on many things - for instance my shaving habits and general fashion sense - my use of the 'C' word to describe inanimate objects, the fact that I think Phil Collins is a good drummer - the list goes on and on and on..

She can be concerned about a lot of things that I think are tarded...

(put the 'alt' hook away - I aint gonna bite on that one)

I actually see no issue with this in the slightest. Not sure about the gateway between IRC and SL itself, as so far a lot of those attempts have raised privacy concerns so much as in-world and IRC, however, we've broadcasted Town Halls to IRC without that being an issue.

Really, if LL was to add a sort of chat network into SL similar to how BattleNET (Diablo-era) was, where you had a list of official channels.. but anyone could go make and run their own private channels with mod righs and such.. That'd be wonderful. I'd fully encourage that. I don't think it'd detract from the value of the IRC channel (not everyone can be in SL all the time), but I'm not at all against other resources like that and if LL decided to do something silly like run their own IRC channel/network, that's also their own choice. I think it'd be better to focus on the client than a seventeen year old protocol like IRC.

So far as if the Lindens should be there at all, I've given thought to it in terms of fearing that people may not be able to speak freely as they'd like with their presence there -- but so far they've been rather professional and nice about it. So far as other concerns, I don't particularly see them as valid since as Ben said, others are welcome to start whatever and he'd join -- and people already have. I don't see the conflict of interest in this from a business sense, I've managed channels for other games and even some non-game related commercial products where the company itself had a presence, even if they did not run the channel itself. If they decide to leave, that's one less issue for the channel itself, but it'd be a shame to lose people who are friendly and contribute to conversation from time to time.

Anyway, I've contributed to this thread and others far more than I think I really should have and I said my bit. I don't really think there's any other angles or ideas or circles to run in that I need to contribute further to.

The bottom line is that it's very common and accepted for developers and employees of software/tech companies to contribute to conversations on things like fansites, blogs and IRC channels. This is not new and it's not a big deal. The fact that someone else moderates is rarely an issue. It would be very restricting if LL employees could only communicate via methods that were completely under LL control.

It's like saying that an employee of Linden Labs could not go on a radio program and answer questions because the radio station moderates the program. Should Linden Lab get their own radio station? Um, no, there's no need and it's terribly inefficient.

Anyway...

Yes global channels would be great. And the ability to start, join and leave channels from within SL would be a huge benefit. Groups like the Scripters of Second Life, for instance, should really just be a channel that we can join and leave when we want. That's what SL needs (or should have), not an official IRC channel.

Is there a proposal for this in voting?

Maybe it was a Java IRC client, whatever that is, it rings a vague bell. I guess I could go over and find out, lol.

coco

nonononononono! I definitely don't think you two are alts!

coco

So should LL take the time to create their own IRC channel before or after they take time to create their own infonet? What other things must they do to satisfy the paranoid and petty?

You do realize we are gonna need a "Shake yo @$$!" counterpart to that?

If you can't satisfy them, distract them!

Well, if you've been screwed over and there is no recourse, do you just take your lumps?

I think that kind of behaviour lets people get away with a lot.

Yeah, because anyone who has ever been banned from anything, anywhere was always "screwed over".

I guess anyone ever kicked out of a bar or a club for threatening another patron or the owners was "screwed over". I guess the law should force the club owners to let them back in because the club owners "get away with a lot" by telling bouncers not to let them come back.

I guess anyone who ever got a restraining order placed on them after threatening someone else was "screwed over". We should rescind those orders because the judges "get away with a lot" by handing them out.

I guess all the people who have been banned from SL for taking down the grid were "screwed over" too? We should let them back in, because the Lindens "get away with a lot" by banning people.

If abuse occurs, I'll let you know.

Your tactics are questionable. Suppose every resident who reads the forums ends up agreeing with you. They'd have no power to effect change in the EFNET channel.

So what, do you whine about it endlessly until the end of time, or do you deal with it and move on? There is plenty of recourse, but the way that he has gone about it is hardly helping anything or bringing any closure to this situation. I know people in SL who have had business deals and friendships gone bad and lost all kinds of money, land, even entire businesses. They have not caused the kind of repeated drama Hank has and gone on and on about it for months on end.

I posted that you guys won. I gave up. I'm permabanned for life from #secondlife IRC chat, from the Azure Island continent, and God knows where else. What more do you want?

WTF?

I gave that all my votes! I consider this the most needed feature in SL right now. Seriously!

I am not paranoid and I am not petty.

You are . . . well. Sick! You're sick! You have bronchitis, you said in another thread, lol. I'm not going to call you names. I just want you to know I COULD. You get a pass for calling me names though, this time, since you are sick.

And as I said in another thread, to paraphrase here:

LL must provide equal and fair service to all residents. We all pay Lindens equal money. To do any less - to give advantages and perks to some, to clearly play favorites in any way - does not provide equal service. It amounts, in fact, to a denial of same services, which is not acceptable in U.S. business terms.

There have been lawsuits launched on far less.

coco

Their presence in an IRC channel is hardly a service.