Lords and Peasants

Yay, false dichotomy!

I say, old bean, I need a body to dust my top-hat and polish my monocle thrice daily. Could you be so kind as to send over one of the little people? Ta-ta.

Does your 'logic' apply to real life too, Jamie? Do you believe the poor, put-upon career-welfare class is being oppressed by those elitist pigs who actually earn their living working?

I know that sometimes getting your name on Page 1 requires a bit of divisiveness and trolling, but I'm sure you can do better than this. This isn't even worthy of blaze.

Very well put. I guess you could classify me as an artist. Like everyone else in SL I arrived with nothing at all. I just came here for a mental vacation at the suggestion of a friend. I found that just about everything you need is in free boxes. Clothes, toys, gadgets. Then scripts, textures, ideas. There are places like the Noyo Library of Prims and Ethereal Teal where people have taken elabroate measures of their own time and tier to teach anyone who wants to show up how to make things, script things, texture things. All it takes is a little time and effort. You even have enough L$ in your account to buy a bit of First Land to start you out. But THE REST IS UP TO YOU WHETHER TO MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF OR NOT. The most important thing I found, though, is that SL is very much like a mirror. You have almost limitless resource and potential to make nearly anything you can imagine from your body to the world around you. What you do with it is up to you. What you create is a real reflection of your own dreams and visions of yourself. Like any mirror, if you don't like what you see, maybe you should check what you're putting into it.

Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
Carl G. Jung

How about let's all stop patting ourselves on the back for a while, long enough for Jeska to move this and the Aimee thread into the socio-political forum where they belong.

coco

Very good point, Coco.(pats Coco on the back) Oh, and what Jeffrey and Seth said, too. Huns, LMAO!

I think that this sort of discussion only leads to animosity and bickering. Which is why it's here, in the forums, of course. I had a point that I was going to make, but I need to get back to being fed grapes and caviar in my airship. That is all.

There seems to be an impression that all of the so called "peasants" are wallowing in self-pity at not having achieved whatever definition of success you have for yourself. I don't see that being as wide spread as you think it is.

Additionally, many of us are working very hard at RL and don't really feel a need to replicate that in SL.

Actually I think you are taking it out of context. That message is implied in the context of someone complaining who has done nothing to better their situation. If you arnt complaining and are SL poor and having a good time, most everyone has no problem with that. Alot of us treat the default AVs the same as we do ones with 5000 L$ skins/shapes/clothes.

No one is saying you have to. It just when people complain about it but dont put time into it is there an issue.

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Pie of us all!

Power to the people!!

No peace, no justice!!!


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Content Creators | Consumers
There. Division.

People who go out and learn and do something | People who like to complain or think things are owed to them or should be given to them.

There. Another division. I don't these two divisions are necessarily tied together, and definitely do NOT subscribe to the "Lords and Peasants" ideology and/or newsletter. But Huns, man, you seriously crack me up some times.

How about when people complain about the complainers? Man, I hate that.

I was not taking it out of context, I was stating that the occurence of people complaining is lower than intimated and, of the complainers, even fewer are actually doing nothing to better their situation. I was also noting that the populace does not believe themselves to be "peasants", by and large, despite how the original poster's quote source may think of them.

What I'm seeing here is a tendency to say those who create are 'better' than those who do not create. I think that's a bad attitude to have.

What I see in SL is a reciprocal relationship. Those of you who create would have nothing were it not for those people who want to purchase or admire your creations. Not everyone is here to create. Not everyone is here to socialze. You do what you have fun with.

I frankly don't understand why, on the scale that someone posted, socializers, managers, etc rank any 'lower' than those who are artists and/or creators. Is their contribution somehow less? Without the managers there are no functions for the socializers to go to. Without functions, there's no reason for the socializer to buy that pretty dress. Without events, there's no reason for a person to build that smashing palace or cathedral. Whats the point if no one will be there to appreciate it? The events draw new people, who see the cool clothes, gadgets and buildings and become inspired and turn into the designers and creators of tomorrow.

If everyone wanted to create, there'd be a glut. Too much of a good thing can be wondreful, as Mae West was fond of saying, but in SL that may not so much be true. Those of you making the big bucks by selling whatever you do should be thankful that not everyone does it -- some people are content to be consumers and you creator types that sell your stuff should bow down and thank your lucky stars that this is the case. And those people camping at some place trying to get traffic -- they contribute too. Because they are going to take that money and reinvest it into the game.

So its all reciprocal. Some people are famous -- but I wouldn't call them royalty. But being famous doesn't make them better. It just makes them famous. And iwithout everyone else, they wouldn't even be that.

There aren't really any pure creators or pure consumers to speak of. Not only is this perception incorrect, it's one we do NOT want to foster. Yet threads like these, and the comments in them, do just that.

It says: "Y'all who don't make stuff are just complainers and slackers and expect everything to be made for you and given to you. You oughta be like US."

Well, once they are like us - or just get pissed off enough from hearing about how inferior they supposedly are - who's gonna buy our stuff? It's not a good idea to dis the customers.

coco

You left off the most important part, Coco. The above only applies to those who complain about their situation yet do nothing to improve it except blame everyone else. If someone wants to come to SL and do nothing but sit in one place and stare at a wall, more power to 'em. Do whatever makes you happy. But, if sitting there just staring at a wall leaves you feeling empty or envious of the non-wall-starers and you start blaming your boredom or lack of profit on others, you have no one to blame but your own wall-staring self.

The market does not find comfort with this sentence. There will always be that small percentage of talented creators at the top that will always render the larger percentage of less talented creators irrelevant.

The same applies for land barons, club owners, escorts, etc.

It's called competition! and it's alive and well in any economy.

I don't see a lot of people doing that, though.

coco

Yes, there are. I have spoken with many, many, many people who say "I am a consumer, I don't want know know how to make or do anything, I'm here to have fun and hang with my friends and occasionally buy with my stipend, but not to make anything or learn how". I think you'll be hard pressed to find many content creators who don't buy ANYTHING else here, but as a general statement, in the last year that I've been here I've only bought a handful of things that really caught my eye - I am a content creator, and very seldom, when I really want something, a consumer.

And I put it like that to try to emphasize the fact that the two "divisions" I described there are SEPERATE, that you can't assume that the "consumers" are always whining or that the "content creators" are always casting down judgement, I'm sorry you didn't read my post as such Coco, and I certainly agree wholeheartedly that divisions like this aren't good, I was using it as an illustration to say, if you're looking for a division, here's how I'd do it but the two are NOT connected to one another, IMHO. To repeat myself, I don't these two hypothetical, unnecessary divisions are necessarily tied together, and definitely do NOT subscribe to the "Lords and Peasants" ideology and/or newsletter.

I agree with you. I hardly ever buy anything, myself, and I know some people who make an art form and a total lifestyle out of shopping. I just don't like the "creators/consumers" distinction because it usually isn't the case (most people are a combination), and because even where someone is supposedly a "consumer," they are in fact creating content - creating the WORLD - with their houses, their events, etc.

coco

I agree. I also don't like the distinction because those who bring it up are usually doing it with some Lord vs. Peasant nonsense in mind.

Most consumers know that without creators, they would have nothing to consume. They would be doing default Function Key dances in their buttercup yellow sweatsuits and 'natural' hair. Most creators know that without consumers, they'd be piss poor and begging for someone to show-off their goodies to; or they'd have given up from having to build in the griefer-strewn sandboxes because they could no longer justify the tier they pay.
One cannot survive without the other, and most people on either side are smart enough to realize this.

Trying to make it some form of classist oppression is just retarded, and it's not even subtle.

I've been told some statistics in-game by a source I'd have no reason to distrust - that 75% of SL's playerbase never create anything, and 25% of SL's playerbase never buy anything.

So yes, there are plenty of pure consumers. And yes, if there weren't, demand as a whole would go down - not just because people would make things for themselves, but because time spent creating isn't time spent shopping, or using the things you'd shop for. After all, if you want to you can build a massive shadowed and render-textured building in the Morris sandbox while wearing Shape And Outfit 1 (and doing so would probably attract a sufficient number of freebies that it'd be far more efficient than going shopping)

"The only limit is imagination", the frequent claim, is clearly wrong (imagine the Mona Lisa. Now paint it. Uh-huh...) Do Chip, Aimee, Enabran etc. really believe that all they used was imagination? Or did it take skill, time, and effort too? And if the answer is yes, then you have to accept that some people will not have the skill, will not have the time to spare, or will not be able to make the effort (no-one is lazy by choice, why would anyone choose it?).

Clearly it takes time and effort to develop skills. There's nothing wrong or inferior about people who have neither... until they start resenting those that do take the time and put in the effort to learn the skills, and blame them for somehow holding them back. It's a crap attitude and completely unfair to people who work their asses off to develop the skills necessary to create quality content. Those who complain about the evil content barons or bandy about the tired cliche that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, always have envy at the core of their argument and rarely are willing to put in the effort themselves.

You guys are missing one important group that float around sl, those who have no skills but are good at giving advice and ideas for those that can create what they think: The ones who care less for the cash and dont try to exploit others or do things for free just to make sl better. There are quite a few who are Roamists Similar to bards, they just float around sl giving ideas to people or helping out with issues with whatever skills they contribute then go back to floating again. I tend to fill this category since one my few good skills is getting people to find others they need. Like person who needs anim artist, or a clothier who needs models, since i got a big list of friends and stuff get them to meet sometimes and BAM work out a deal if they wish, no need for cash, nor wanting accpetance.

As for the nobles your right they flaunt their cash, but not all are like that. Some land owners are alot nicer like the free money friday's you can play the casino games for free and win L$. There's plenty of those that try to find jobs on working in teams for groups. I know quite a few just looking for a break. Personally i still care less for the limelight and more for the concerns of newbs. There gonna need their break eventually and find a place in sl for their own. Only thing i can try to do is make things ezier! Least try to XD

There have been examples of where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, though. A lot of the suggestions we hear for the game fall into just that category.

coco

Exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly. EXACTLY.