Second Life in the News, Again!

Nice little article but.

Lewis...

I am a very laid back and open-minded person. I respect people's rights to opinions, even when I disagree with them, and will even stand up to defend their rights to their thoughts and beliefs. That is why I have never had much issue with you or your posts in these forums. On occassion you have made posts I agreed with and thought were excellent points, and on other occassions you have said things I totally disagree with and find offensive personally. But, I have not ever judged you as anything other than a human being deserving of my respect. I have watched some people attack you in vicious ways that didn't seem warrented by your own posts at times, and I empathized with you because I know very well what it is like to be ostracized and attacked for little reason. I am very shy usually, but once or twice I had even thought of looking you up in world to say hi or comment on something you posted here I thought was well said.

I point this out to illustrate a contrast here that has upset me.

You do not know me in world as far as I know. You may never have noticed my posts before on the forums. I have no way of knowing what you think of me or my ideas of beliefs or feelings. Until now.

Now, despite never having met, never having talked, you make statements here that expressly say you would prefer I not be seen or heard by you and that I should warn you that I am a bisexual woman now in a lesbian relationship so you can avoid me for no other reason than that fact. I find that saddens me. That someone I have defended in the past to people and even at times appreciated the posts or comments of would dismiss me as someone they didn't want to be involved with just because of the sexual identity I was born with.

I can fully understand you not wanting to be innundated with sexual images, or to see sexual acts in RL or SL if it is something you do not like or agree with. That is your right, and the current Mature and PG systems fro sims does try to help in that for those who do not wish to see or view certain material. However...I so not flaunt myself or my sexuality. I do not have sex in public places or conduct myself in a sexual manner in SL (or RL). I am pretty boring in that way maybe, but I am shy and sex is a private thing to me generally. That you would desire so fervently to avoid me in world not for my actions, but for an fact of my birth (yes, I know many disagree with it, but to me it is fact...I was born bisexual. I knew since I was a child) upsets me. I feel you are judging me and disrespecting me in a way I have not done to you despite not always agreeing with you.

I fully support your rights to think or feel how you wish, Lewis. I support your desire to isolate yourself from those you disagree with and avoid exposure to things you find offensive. But...I will say that I am saddened by what you have said here today.

Best regards, Zoe.

P.S. - I am bisexual, and live with a woman. Warning has been given as you requested of us. Temenos Island is owned by me, and though no one has sex at Temenos and it is a store and community build, I thought it fair to mention it is owned by someone you wish to avoid.

But it wasn't the same logic at all.

Your logic is based on the content of the establishment in question - the logic to which I am protesting is based on the fact that I am involved with it.

Using that exact same logic, does that mean the wiki build project is destined to fail simply because I happen to have joined the group of builders?

Extrapolating further, does that mean the SLCC would collapse if I said I was going to come along?

Lewis

If you wanted me to drop by and say hello, I don't have a problem with that. I would, however, have a problem if you and your partner chose to get frisky whilst I was there - but then again, whether a straight or same sex couple (or whatever), common decency dictates you don't "get it on" when you have visitors, unless they are there to join in. Of which, by then, I would have made my excuses anyway.

Your sexual orientation would not make a difference to me in this context. I wouldn't say "well it's a nice build but you are bisexual"... it's just a pile of prims, and the creator actually doesn't make any difference to me.

As I said, I know one of my friends is transgendered, and since she told me it hasn't changed a thing about how we view each other in game.

Lewis

And you still didnt get it?

Let me explain it.
You ask to not be around gay people and that they put up signs stating such. In that you include everyone not just those that create gay clubs (which btw usually do have it in the description unlike most bars IRL). So you are telling me to place a sign in my shop, which has no sex or gay anything in it, that I am bi. That way people can be informed about the person who created it.

So, I decided to turn it around in a way you would understand (failed I guess) and switched the roles to show you how bigioted you are. That instead of me putting up a sign, then you should, ect ect. And that people wouldn't go to your club (and don't like you state constantly) because of your attitude towards others. This addresses the issues that many people around here have of you. Your constant complaints about what is in the press + complaints no one goes to your club = you are jealous of those who are popular and get press coverage for doing a serivice to a community within SL.

Nope.



Yet if I put up a sign saying "Straight Club" or wore a "Straight Pride" t-shirt, you don't think someone would report me for discrimination? I would give it 5 minutes.



So what makes all that I provide in Second Life as a service to the community less valid than that provided by something else?

I have never once said that a gay club is less valid in SL than my disco - I am simply choosing not to visit them. Why is that a problem to you?

Lewis

And it was such a challenge! I should have hired John Cleese from Confuse-a-Cat, it would have made it so much easier. I'm glad you actually got my point. The blind are now officially leading the naked...

Zoe L: Very wonderful, eloquent post, but if the precedent leads on, some people won't read beyond the part where you tell your sexual orientation. That whole mentality of, "I have no fear of homosexuality, just choose not to be involved in it."


Uhhh, she presented logic: you tell someone not to pre-judge your build without visiting it, yet you're doing the same on the article (not reading past the first few paragraphs) and requesting for tools to do so (so you can "avoid" sims with alternative lifestyles as a whole, even if PG). Your claim to extrapolation is false; sillyness is more appropriate noun.

Regards,

-Flip

Not to derail this love fest but...

Just wanted to say thanks for the article post. Was a good piece.

One thing I found most humorous was this:

The company still requires payment information for those registering on the teen grid - dedicated to Second Lifers between the ages of 13 and 17.


Sooooooooooo if a teen can't provide that proof I wonder whatever they will do to enter the world of SL? Hmmmmmmmmm

Lewis sorry but for there to be a signed posted taht say sometimes polka dotted people come here would not be that good and unreasonable.. :/

if a places caters to a certain type of person, straight, furry, gay, polka dotted ppl, than it is reasonalbe to assume they would put it in their description.. but expecting any more than that is not resonable..
and ONLY if they cater to that group, some cater to alot of "groups" ...

Another paragraph of garbage - I can't respond to you when you don't address me in a language I can understand, and as I've already said I only speak English.

While I disagree with the lack of verification requirement to enter SL (until they give us proper controls to save our experience, instead of scrambling around like chickens without heads kluging them into the client), I do agree with this from LL: they should be much more concerned about adults accessing the teen region than teens access the adult region. I'm much more worried about the intentions of adults in the teen region than curious teens doing a pixel-bump or two.

Regards,

-Flip

Perhaps you need summer school, or an English to English dictionary. No one else seems to have a problem communicating with me.

Why don't you just say it? You're specifically avoiding engaging in debate.

Regards,

-Flip

Probably no one is listening.

BWAHAHAAHAHAHA and you speak is so gud.

you ppl are horrible stop bickering and trying to one up each other, simply discuss it..

Doubtful and who are you by the way? Oh wait, absolutely nobody.

I am sure that Flipper got where he is cause no one is listening.

try again.

Some of us have been trying. Read the full thread again to see when it derailed. Oh well, you're probably right - 'nuff said.

Regards,

-Flip

I agree in principal with you Flip.. but coming from TSO before where young teens frequently inhabited what was considered the prostitution realms there.. there is no difference here. Now a teen can go straight to the main grid and get a job as a escort or dancer or what have you before they put the first box on thier head.
I made an alt and litteraly upon landing on the main grid.. before I even customized I was approached on landing about working in such a place. They are recruiting them that way now.
Now the teens (or younger) are open prey to these people who would normaly have to go to the teen grids for such intentions. Though not always the case, it can be pretty obvious when you are talking to a minor out there.
The very safeguard that did protect these situations was taken away. I am pretty OK with most things that are inconvenient, etc that LL may decide to impose.. but this one was a terrible move. They put numbers ahead of their own safe guard here.

Just a thought (sorry if this was posted elsewhere) but maybe payment verification should be a requirement for M grids? I know that would impede many legit players too.. but at least the kids will be safe.

In closing, some people have no problems with folks different from them, as long as they're clearly marked in large red letters and about 5 miles away from them at all times.

Jesus saves at wal-mart.

Ooooh sweet! I seem to speak a another language all of a sudden! English isn't even my first language, but I do understand Flipper very well! How's it called? Garbage English?

I have to admit tho, I do have some problems understanding your version of English!

Anyway, I'm happy...the forum on a Wednesday morning NEVER dissapoints me!

I think a few points have been lost here.

Lewis has stated on prior posts that sex of any sort does not belong in second life. While I think this is rather silly, its his view and he's entitled to it. What I think Lewis was attempting to say initially was because the article in the OP referred to sex, that was wrong.

Personally, I think that if anybody makes a blanket statement as to what is or is not appropriate in second life better accept that other people will have their own views as to waht is appropriate here as well.

And for anyone who is interested, sometimes its not the message that annoys. Its how its said. If anyone finds themselves embroiled in petty arguments on an ongoing basis, maybe a different approach in expressing your views is in order.

Just a suggestion.

Then why they hell don't I understand her?
.....
oh, never mind!

Oh, I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong, I was just trying to explain Linden Lab's position on the issue. And to play devil's advocate a bit farther, let's face it: if a teen *really* wants porn, there's much more extreme (and, well, real) stuff out on the web and file sharing networks for them. SL's offering is a cartoonish proximity in comparison (that's not to say that the power of imagination can't make that cartoonish proximity go a long way for interested parties!).

I really wish Linden Lab had maintained the status quo for a while longer with registration, until they had built in the tools to really open Second Life as a whole. It seemed to me to be a classic case of putting the cart before the horse, and now, we're seeing kluged new featured being forced into updates. People have been asking for anti-push options for years, and now it seems Linden Lab took the three or four hours it would take to develop such a feature, and forced it in (finally!). It is frustrating sometimes, but hey; I remind myself that perhaps this somewhat chaotic environment is what has allowed Linden Lab to do so much between 2002 and the present. Microsoft certainly hasn't done nearly as much with Windows Vista, despite their manpower advantage being exponential over Linden Lab's. How many delays have their been?


Ha! Thanks for making me spew soda all over my laptop!

Regards,

-Flip

Homophobia = fear of other people their lifstyle/culture

Same goes for racism.


If you're afraid of Milk then you should be VERY afraid.
Because this is THE milkbottle talking.

I'm so pale irl that my friends think that i might start to glow when i stand under a blacklight.

I promised myself to get a tan this year